der
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Posts posted by der
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Had Chris rebuild my original tweeters. Finally had the time to install them this morning. They sound great - like having a new pair of AR3a!
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I guess I can see how that might happen if you used too much. Not a lot required to do the job.
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I think if I were yanking drivers in and out on a regular basis I'd use foam as well. My woofers have been out once in the last 50+ years. Replaced my mids 30 years ago. Tweeters out and replaced with HIVI recently. Original tweets out for rebuild then back in so that will make twice for them. If I fall back in love with the original sound of the tweeters then that will likely be it in my lifetime.
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Just sent my original AR3a tweeters off to Chris for rebuild. The HIVI sound good but I long to hear that original sound.
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I've always used duct seal, which comes in a block and is usually black in color. I've softened it in hot water to make it more pliable if the weather was cool. I just form a rope of it perhaps 3/8" in diameter and press it in the recessed opening for the woofer. before pressing the woofer in and inserting the screws.
Whether or not this is the proper way of sealing the woofer I don't know. But, it's always worked for me. I might add that when I remove the woofer initially I always clean off all the old sealer from both the baffle and the driver.
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Roy speaks gospel to me. What a great resource!
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48 minutes ago, RoyC said:
It doesn't matter, but the series caps are on the negative side of the 3a crossover if you want to be consistent.
Roy
Thanks. I rebuilt my crossovers about 4-5 years ago but couldn't remember. I'll put them on the negative side.
der
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Thanks Roy, great information. I wired the HiVis with the same polarity as the other drivers. I'll have to check my parts box for 25 ohm resistors. Likely have some already. I do have a couple of 6.2 uF 1% or 5% caps that I can wire in as well. I assume in series on the + side or does it matter?
der
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5 minutes ago, Aadams said:
Der
You haven't mentioned what you consider to be upper mid range. The trick that Roy's mod performs is the blending in the crossover area that closely mimics the transition of the original tweeter but the HiVi does not match the dispersion of the original above the crossover point. The rebuilt originals from both Roy and Chris easily match the sonic performance of a correctly adapted HiVi but hearing the difference in the 5k to 8k range without having a reference speaker will be difficult unless your ear is finally tuned. The good news is you can't go wrong either way.
Adams
I've found that I obtain a more pleasing balance by adjusting the L-pads on the mid ranges down a bit from where they were before installing the new tweeters. This cause me to think that the HiVi tweeters are reproducing part of the mid range band. I've adjusted the L-pads controlling the tweeters a great deal since installing the HiVi - from full on to just past halfway. Of course, the settings on my left and right speakers vary a bit because of their positioning in the room.
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Thanks for the replies. I have my originals tweeters boxed up and ready to send off for rebuild. I don't intend on discarding them. I also don't intend on ever selling my 3a. either. My son will inherit them. I wonder if he'll appreciate them however. He is a musician (rock) that seems more enamored with satellites with sub-woofers.
I'm also wondering if just using the inductor and not a cap has resulted in the HiVi reproducing some of the upper mid-range that the originals didn't. Or, is the addition of the cap help attenuate the output of the modern tweeter to closer approximate the original AR? Perhaps that's something that Roy can address. I have been able to adjust the new tweeters to my satisfaction by using the L-pads. I'm thinking of digging out my old test records to fine tune the levels and balances.
der
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Now that I've spent some time listening to these new HiVi tweeters and getting levels adjusted to my satisfaction I am very happy with the addition. Even my tired old ears hear a vast improvement in the treble. I am contemplating having my original tweeters rebuilt but I have my doubts that they'll match the HiVi even then.
Does anyone think differently?
der
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3 hours ago, ra.ra said:
Hi der, I always enjoy reading your posts, but I cannot understand exactly what you are saying here for the third time. Earlier, you mentioned having some 6.2uF caps - - - are you saying your new tweeter circuits have no cap at all, or simply that you have not replaced the old cap with a new cap? Which type of original caps do (did) your 3a's have for the tweeter, and have you evaluated them in any way?
My apologies for the confusion. I have a pair of 6.2 uF caps that I did not use with the HiVi tweeters. The HiVi's do have a0.05mH coil on each. The cap I referred to was an additional cap. My crossover network is the same as the original. I just replaced the old, out of spec caps with new ones. I've also swapped out the old pots with L-pads.
Again, sorry for the confusion.
der
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I front wired them because my pair have front wired mids and tweeters. I'm wondering if I should have included a capacitor or not. I can use the increase in tweeter output at my age but I wonder if the HiVi are reproducing down in the midrange now to some degree. After a couple of days listening it seems I prefer the tweeter L-pads just past half way.
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I finished up the second speaker last night. As I said, I used the 0.05mH coil but no cap. Polarity is standard. After doing some listening and adjustment of the L-pads I find that I enjoy the change very much. Makes me wonder why these HIVI's have been sitting in a box the last 2-3 years. I've owned these 3a's for over 50 years now and they now sound better than ever. I remember thinking way back when that I thought the tweeters were the weakest part of the speaker. Now, soon to be 73 years old with hearing that certainly isn't what it used to be I find this mod very satisfying. Wonderful to find all the great information provided by many on this site. Thank you all and Happy New Year!
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I just finished up replacing one of my original AR3a tweeters with the HiVi. I used a 0.05mH coil but not a cap. I have to postpone doing the other one for a few hours. I did do some listening with just the one replaced. Better output but I am not sure the dispersion is the same as the original. I believe I'll be doing some adjustments with the L-pads. The original level controls were replaced several years ago when I rebuilt the crossovers. I'll post further impressions when I get them both done.
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Very nice. Congratulations Kev_Rat!
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Thanks - I tried searching but didn't come up with that thread for some reason. Likely a senior moment! This morning I found my HIVI's in a box my wife had stored for me. She has a habit of "storing" things in places that only she is aware of. I am now reminded that I attached 0.05 mH coils to the back of the tweeters. That coil is to be wired in parallel with the tweeter terminals then? I also have a pair of 6.2 uF caps in the box. Not positive how they're to be wired. I do appreciate the help and patience.
der
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I bought a pair of the HIVI Q1 tweeters a couple of years ago. I intended to install them in my 3a's but other projects interfered. Now I don't recall how they needed to be wired into the existing crossover. I believe a 0.05 mH coil was needed. Don't really recall and have no idea how the coil (if needed) was to be wired. I intended to front wire them as well.
Would someone give me a bit of guidance, perhaps a wiring diagram?
Thanks!
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I have heard three different pairs over the years in three different environments. To say I didn't care for any of them would be an understatement. On the other hand, if the owners were happy who am I to say? It was their money.
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On 10/23/2019 at 4:01 PM, Aadams said:
To understand another man’s point of view it is often helpful to know how he gets paid. This is one of those times.
Agree. Or, to understand a man's point of view it's often helpful to know how he spent his money. I have a neighbor two doors down that has a pair of Bose 901 speakers that he raves about. I told him I own a pair of AR3a. He said he'd never heard of AR and that he was well versed in HIFI. Personally, I think the 901's are horrible and always have. But, I wouldn't dream of telling him that. You never know, he might burn my house down!
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I am very happy with it. I think it's a good option for those owning AR - especially 4 ohm models. Not that expensive and it has a remote. Handy for us older people.
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It's a 3480. Well, first I lost the phono section altogether. Noise and distortion. But, I primarily was using a separate Cambridge phono preamp with my main table anyway so I let that go. There was something missing with the HK. I'm not good with adjectives describing sound but there was a lack of punch with it. This became even more apparent when I got the Yamaha. The AR's sounded like a different speaker - much more dynamic. Bass deep and tight, high end sparkles. I tend to judge reproduction compared to live music and the new amp brings my a gear a step closer.
I don't know, maybe there have been other problems with my HK from the beginning. Perhaps the failure of the phono section begat other issues. But, it never suffered noise or distortion with the other inputs. It's not that it sounds particularly bad but it pales mightily to the new Yamaha. I suspect it has something to do with the load the 4 ohm AR3a presents. I've driven my AR4x with the HK and thought they sounded very good.
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17 minutes ago, lARrybody said:
I don't think you could have made a better choice. The pure direct option on that amp is awesome.
Yes it is. I am not exaggerating, my 3a have never sounded better. I don't think they've ever been adequately driven.
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Still listening to my original pair of 3a that I purchased new in 1969. I've never heard anything that I've liked better so why change?. Over the years I had to replace the mid ranges because of an amp failure. That was my first amp that I drove the 3a's with - the AR amp. I believe it was rated at 60 WPC RMS into 4 ohms. In the past 10 years I've done some speaker maintenance - rebuilt the crossovers and replaced the pots and resealed the woofer cloth surrounds. Amazingly, both tweeters still have good output that even my 72 year old ears can detect.
But, this post is more about amplification than my speakers. After the AR amp blew up I intended on having repaired but it got lost in the shuffle and I bought a Technics receiver that I used for maybe 25 years. It wasn't much but I wasn't listening that much, career, family, etc. Then came a Harman Kardon receiver that did duty for approximately 6. I was never really happy with either. For the past year or so I explored other amps. I've looked and inquired about vintage this or that and also looked into something new with a remote (old guys like remotes) with plenty of power.
I ended up buying a new Yamaha A-S701. It has an optical output for CD and it's own DAC. It does have a phone input but I prefer my Cambridge pre although the built in isn't bad at all. All tone controls can be switched out - which I prefer.
My 3a have never sounded better, This little Yamaha makes the whole system sound new again. Yamaha doesn't specify the 4 ohm power output but I believe it to be between 120 -150 watts RMS. I must say, after 50 years of ownership it's almost like I've never really heard these speakers. I listen to vinyl mainly, and usually jazz. It's like I have a whole new system.
You might guess that I'm a bit excited about this acquisition. Sorry if I bored you all but had to post.
HiVi Q1R Tweeter Front Wire Question
in Acoustic Research
Posted
Aadams - I promise a full review of the Q1R and my rebuilt AR3a tweeters. My wife is very ill at the moment and requires most of my attention.