Hivi qr1in AR5 - stoopid noob questions

[MoPhoX]

Hi folks, so time flies and i finally tried to install the Hivi tweeters in my AR5s. Carefully removed the tape holding the very thin copper wires, then took the tweeter out. I have zero soldering experience (and practically no knowledge of electronics), but just wanted to see if the Hivis worked. I carefully attached the copper wires to the new tweeter terminal, but no tweeter sound. rather than messing anything else up, i put the original ones back.  So now what- there are other things that could be wrong, but I'm not sure i have the skill set to figure it out. I'd really like to hear what these are supposed to sound like. (I also still need to recap my KLH Model 17s, but that's another story.)

[Aadams]

3 hours ago, MoPhoX said:

I have zero soldering experience (and practically no knowledge of electronics), but just wanted to see if the Hivis worked. I carefully attached the copper wires to the new tweeter terminal, but no tweeter sound. rather than messing anything else up, i put the original ones back.

  Did the original tweeters work before you removed them to install the Hivis?  Did you detach the thin leads from the tweeters or the wiring terminal block?  Are you sure the pots are not the problem?  Can you supply  close-up photos showing the original tweeters after you reinstalled them and without the tape.   I am sure someone with knowledge will help but these are among the questions that will be asked.

Adams 

[ra.ra]

Not sure why the new tweeter is not responding. In case you haven't yet reviewed this thread, use it as a guide to back check your installation steps - - good pics are included.

 

[MoPhoX]

The orig tweeters did not work at all. The pots worked for the mids, although they were a bit scratchy. I used the toilet paper roll to listen for anything from the tweeters, and there was nothing. 

The leads were detached from the tweeters not the terminal. That was probably a mistake. I don’t even see where the copper wire attached to the tweeter. Under the tape it was thicker, it was thinner than a cat hair where it met the tweeter. Now it’s just taped to hold it in place while I figure out the next move.

Pic below is of the one i removed, having trouble uploading the other. When I tried the Hivi, I just held the leads to it to test. No fancy inductor business.

[ra.ra]

32 minutes ago, MoPhoX said:

The leads were detached from the tweeters not the terminal. That was probably a mistake.

Not sure if I'm reading this right, but those original tinsel wire leads are specific to this particular AR tweeter, and are no longer useful in an installation which employs the new Hi-Vi tweeter. In the thread posted above, you'll see larger gauge wires attached to the Hi-Vi rear terminals which come thru the face plate to connect with the exposed front terminals. Since your original tinsel wires have already been disconnected from the AR tweeters, you should remove them completely from the front terminals and test your Hi-Vi's with the new heavier wire.    

[MoPhoX]

Sounds right ra.ra.  Interesting, perhaps that's why there was no sound from the Hivi since i needed heavier leads - or it could also be that the pots are shot but without me testing them I might have destroyed the original speaker.

[ra.ra]

14 minutes ago, MoPhoX said:

...or it could also be that the pots are shot...

Yeah, no doubt the pots will require some level of attention (caps, too, possibly), and you may or may not have unnecessarily sacrificed your original tweeters - - but at least you've got new Hi-Vi's now. Just my opinion, but I really dislike working with the front-wired drivers with the tinsel leads - - - the drivers work very well when installed properly, but I just find these delicate exposed wires to be a serious design flaw and I take every opportunity to replace them with rear-wired drivers when the opportunity presents itself. 

[JKent]

Hey MoPhoX

Those front-wired tweeters are a dog to work on and not a good project for a first-timer. I agree with ra.ra about preferring back-wired tweeters and when I put Hi-Vi tweets in my AR-3a's I back-wired them.

Here are some suggestions:

1. Yes--you "may" have wrecked your tweeters but don't throw them away. CSP member Chris1this1 is a fellow New Jerseyan and apparently the only person on the planet who can rebuild the original tweets. You can have yours rebuilt or do what I did and donate them to him (he'll cover postage).
2. To temporarily test your Hi-Vi tweets, scrape/sand the black paint off the front tweeter terminals (to get a good electrical contact) and wire the Hi Vi tweets. Back-wire them with #18 AWG wire. No need to solder--use crimp connectors on the Hi-Vi's.
3. Don't permanently install the tweets but touch the new leads to the clean & shiny front terminals and see if you get sound. If you don't you can try rotating the Hi level pot back & forth several times to try to rub some corrosion off.
4. As has been mentioned, you may have bad capacitors too.
5. When you do put the speakers back together you can disconnect the tweeter wires from the back of the front terminals and connect those wires to your new wires on the Hi-Vi, using wire nuts.

Ask questions and post pictures.

btw--it was not the thin leads that caused the lack of sound. 18 wire is recommended because that's what the internal wiring is but the tweeter will work with hair-thin wire. Something else is wrong so you have to work methodically to track it down. The easiest first step is to be sure you have a good solid electrical connection from the Hi-Vi to the front terminal.

-Kent

[MoPhoX]

Kent is a genius. I scraped the paint off the terminals, then touched the Hivis to them, and they worked. Pots a little scratchy, but there was absolutely no sound from the original tweets. Looks like I can remove the original tweeters without remorse. Maybe I'll look into the inductor thing. For now I might attach the Hivis semi-permanently and go from there.

[ra.ra]

On 12/9/2017 at 10:36 PM, JKent said:

Something else is wrong so you have to work methodically to track it down.

This is a great thread because we've all encountered situations where it's not immediately apparent why something might not be working properly. Kent's statement hits the nail on the head - - you just have to go back thru every step, ask more questions, and double check every wire connection and component assembly. Also, I know that in describing some of my own projects in this forum, it's not always easy to specifically describe which wire or which terminal  is under discussion, and trying to follow the OP's progress here required a little guesswork.

On 12/9/2017 at 10:36 PM, JKent said:

When you do put the speakers back together you can disconnect the tweeter wires from the back of the front terminals and connect those wires to your new wires on the Hi-Vi...

Yes, unless the Hi-Vi's have been drilled thru already, this is a great suggestion and certainly the direction I would take in order to minimize those front, exposed connections. However, since I believe the AR-5 has one shared front terminal for the common wire of both the tweeter and midrange, you'll just need to be certain that each of the smaller drivers has adequate wiring provisions.

On 12/10/2017 at 9:39 AM, MoPhoX said:

I scraped the paint off the terminals, then touched the Hivis to them, and they worked.

Glad to hear this worked out - -  it's sometimes all too easy to overlook the obvious. Others can chime in on the effectiveness of the prescribed added coil, but now is definitely the time to pay attention to the scratchy pots and evaluate the accuracy of the caps.       

[MoPhoX]

Thanks ra.ra, I tried to explain the best I could. I will attempt more when I have the time, and post my progress.

Thanks to all, what a great forum!