I'm afraid it has happened?

[frankmarsi]

Has a manufacturer succeeded in producing a replacement, clone or exact copy of the infamous AR tweeter?

You be the judge, as far be it from me to exaggerate when it comes to AR speakers.......

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AR-Acoustic-Research-Replacement-Tweeter-for-AR2a-AR3-LST-Speakers-MT-4121-4-/152720222777?hash=item238ed5aa39:g:k~kAAOSwc8lZzEo4

 

[JKent]

Cool! Who's gonna try them?

[frankmarsi]

On 9/27/2017 at 9:26 PM, JKent said:

Cool! Who's gonna try them?

Why you will, won't you JKent?

Besides, you're here often enough, you can tell us all of your results day by day.

Won't you?  Please say you will. If for nothing else, then do it for God and country.

My word, this is a dream come true and rather historic for us all.

Think of it, it's just in time for Christmas joy and cheer for all of us.

And JKent, if you're still sporting a white beard, you could be Santa, I'll even donate my Santa suit from my last gig.

I'll even wash it first before I pass it on to you. I'm a size 34 pants, think it'll fit you?

Hurry, somebody call Roy C. he must be a part of this joy and happiness immediately because he deserves to know. And while you're at it some one contact chris1this1 too.

Sadly, I may not be able to squander any more money because 10 years ago when the word on the street was the ABTech tweeters, I purchased 22 of those.   When the word on the street was the HiVi tweeters, why I purchased 21 of those too. And in the last 18 months, I've purchased 18 AR-9 used tweeters in preparation for installing in my AR-LST's and AR-9.

You might say, I'm all tweetered-out. Or is that tweedle dee and tweedle dum?

Nonetheless members, haul the wagons into a circle and be prepared to celebrate like never before, or like it's 1999.

And to think they're  "Power Rating: 75 Watts / 150 Watts Max"  which is a whole lot more handling ability than those original shitty little AR tweeters were. 

FM

[genek]

If we can get 9 people to chip in $10 each, we could get one and send it to Roy for testing. If we make it an all-out effort culminating in eventual dissection, there won't be any arguments about who gets to keep it.

[frankmarsi]

My, how tight is tight genek?

Can't any of you behooved members get up the scratch?

Please don't tell me this is why we all own 40 year old speakers is because we can't afford anything new? Hog-wash!

I refuse to settle for this unenthusiastic show of fear of the unknown.

Answer the question, now who will be the first man to show his chest?

Who will be given the credit of such a wonderful experience?

True, if everyone does install these new fanggle gadgets, there may not be a need for this site any longer except for all of the 'cabinet-huggers', the 'pot-scrubbers' or the non-cognoscenti with their boasts of how the AR-3 being better than the AR-3a's as we'll all be happy listeners with no time for banter.

I bet before tomorrow afternoon, there will be at least 10 members here telling us of their proud purchases.

P.S. speaking about tight, JKent should I be letting out that Santa suit any?

FM

[AR surround]

"Made In China"    I'm a bit squeamish when it comes to speakers made there.    So someone else is going to have to take the dive.

[frankmarsi]

12 hours ago, AR surround said:

"Made In China"    I'm a bit squeamish when it comes to speakers made there.    So someone else is going to have to take the dive.

Please, AR surround you of all people?  " squeamish"?  Where's you car made?  Or that TV you're watching right now?  Or, for that matter your flip-flops beside your bed, your small appliances, your AC filter, your socks and sneakers.

If you all fail me now, I'm afraid this most definitely will 'separate the wheat from the chaff'.

If nothing happens here I will turn in my medals, my stripes and badges as I don't need any stink'in badges anymore for I will hang my head in shame, shame for all of the men here who speak with such authority and wisdom on this site to not take a chance for a once in a lifetime dream come true.

May I be excused,  as I need to wake-up early so I can head out early to drive to the frozen tundra known as Saint Paul, Minnesota where these are being shipped from.

I warn you, I have enough to buy cases of these wholesale and sell them to all of you, one at a time and solely at my discretion.

And, if I feel any grudges or ill feelings coming from any of you, I may not offer any warrantees.

And to you two. deserters, you two turn-coats, Kent and AR surround. You guys are in north-western New Jersey which is a whole lot closer to Minnesota than where I'm located.

Please, I'm pleading with you, I'm begging you, we've all wished for this for hundreds of years and now you are fishing for excuses.

In sadness and defeat, I truly believe, I'm afraid this will  'separate the wheat from the chaff'.

P.S. I wasn't joking or lying, I actually do have that many spare tweeters in reserve. You see, I was in the active military 48 years ago, now, I'm a just a reservist.

FM

[JKent]

1 hour ago, AR surround said:

"Made In China"    I'm a bit squeamish when it comes to speakers made there.    So someone else is going to have to take the dive.

Aren't the Hi-Vi QiR tweeters we've been using made in China?

[JKent]

1 hour ago, frankmarsi said:

you two deserters, you two turn-coats, Kent . . . 

Wade a mint. How'd we become turn-coats? Alls I did wuz axe who's gunna try em. (best noo joisey accent)

[xpat]

Hmmm,

Spotted these - maybe someone has already tried them....

https://www.simplyspeakers.com/acoustic-research-replacement-tweeter-12000840.html#tab-2

 

[genek]

The Simply Speakers tweeter is not the same unit.

And if I don't actually happen to need a tweeter, $85 is a fair amount just to find out whether this might be good someday.

[RoyC]

Hey Frank...Deep breaths, brother...in...out...Put on some music, have a nice beverage. Let's see if we can begin to sort this out.

I have some preliminary thoughts:

-It looks great. I particularly like the recessed terminals and the fully exposed 3/4" dome. It appears as if it will be a perfect fit in the existing AR cabinet hole.

-The listed specs and construction tell us it is a "modern" tweeter, much closer to the AR-11/10pi tweeter than the 3a type of tweeter. This means it would still require a crossover modification just like all the other tweeters in Frank's inventory to work properly with the older AR models (including the LST). Models after the 3a, beginning with the AR-11, already have this modification in the form of a parallel inductor in the crossover.

-Replacing front-wired tweeters would likely take some work. If the magnet is the same size as the original tweeter, front-wired installations may need to be changed to back-wiring. (The HiVi tweeter is easy to front-wire due to extra space around the magnet, through which the leads can be passed.)

-At $80 including shipping, they are considerably more expensive than the $20 HiVi tweeter.

-Chris's rebuilds are much closer in spec to the original 3a type tweeter, do not require a crossover modification for use in the 3a or LST, and are about the same price.

-I would not at all be concerned about it being manufactured in China. Vintage AR has sold hundreds of Chinese manufactured HiVi tweeters and L-pads, and has never run across a defective one.  ALL of the AB Tech replacement parts in the last 2 decades of business were manufactured in China. There are very few parts not manufactured in Asia these days. Many of them, like the HiVi products (Swan) are designed here in the US or Europe.

I'll order one to play with, primarily to find out how close it is to the AR-11 tweeter and to verify how well it fits the cabinet hole.

The Simply Speakers tweeter is a left over from AB Tech. Recessed dome, over-priced, and nothing special...

Roy

[genek]

Since we know what to do to get the response of the $20 HiVi right, seems to that the primary question will be does this unit provide the dispersion of the originals. Otherwise, not much reason to spend the extra money for it.

[ligs]

I can suggest a partial solution to clone the original AR3a tweeter. You probably can use a 3-d printer to duplicate the shape and property of the 3a dome. The winding of the coil should not be too difficult. While you are at it, throw in some new features such as shortening ring and symmetric magnetic drive to lower the distortion floor further.

 

[JKent]

Off on a tangent.... Midwest Speaker Repair has a lot of products for us rehab guys. When I was working on my Cizek KA-1s I noticed their copies of the once-ubiquitous Peerless 810665. While looking at the tweeter currently under discussion I noticed a number of other copies (KEF, Cerwin Vega, Altec etc) and many repair parts and replacement drivers.

This is not an endorsement--I've never bought their products--but how often has someone here said "someone should manufacture a clone of the original [fill in the blank] driver"? Looks like Midwest is doing that so I'm glad Roy is going to check this out.

[AR surround]

My question would be: What do these tweeters sound like compared to the original units when they were new?    I would imagine that there are nuances that may be heard at times, so one should replace the tweeters in both speakers to get uniform response.  No?

(Frank, with your double-stacked LST's, you would need 16 of these tweeters. Ouch!)

[Pete B]

Obviously for originality if that is important then these are the way to go if they test well.

Roy, are you able to measure Fs and Qts?  I did it on one AR-11 sample that I had and we could compare.

I'd be happy to measure yours when you get it if you'd like.

[genek]

Unless someone's been keeping a NOS original packed in nitrogen for the past 40 years, don't see how we'd ever know that for sure.

2 hours ago, AR surround said:

My question would be: What do these tweeters sound like compared to the original units when they were new?    

 

[AR surround]

1 hour ago, genek said:

Unless someone's been keeping a NOS original packed in nitrogen for the past 40 years, don't see how we'd ever know that for sure.

 

Granted, but does it still make sense to replace tweeters in both speakers rather than just one?

[genek]

It probably does, if only because one dead tweeter is like one worn out tire; when one goes, the rest are probably not far behind.

[RoyC]

Larry Lagace ("Vintage AR") told me he intends to order one, and has invited me to assist in comparing it to the various original and replacement AR tweeters in his inventory. He also recently acquired some NOS AR-11/10pi tweeters, and has a number of Chris' 3a tweeter rebuilds, which will make it even more interesting.

Roy

[stupidhead]

the timing of all this is great as my winter projects involve a number of models with these tweets. anxious for your impressions Roy

[Phxjohn]

On 9/27/2017 at 10:18 PM, RoyC said:

Hey Frank...Deep breaths, brother...in...out...Put on some music, have a nice beverage. Let's see if we can begin to sort this out.

I have some preliminary thoughts:

-It looks great. I particularly like the recessed terminals and the fully exposed 3/4" dome. It appears as if it will be a perfect fit in the existing AR cabinet hole.

-The listed specs and construction tell us it is a "modern" tweeter, much closer to the AR-11/10pi tweeter than the 3a type of tweeter. This means it would still require a crossover modification just like all the other tweeters in Frank's inventory to work properly with the older AR models (including the LST). Models after the 3a, beginning with the AR-11, already have this modification in the form of a parallel inductor in the crossover.

-Replacing front-wired tweeters would likely take some work. If the magnet is the same size as the original tweeter, front-wired installations may need to be changed to back-wiring. (The HiVi tweeter is easy to front-wire due to extra space around the magnet, through which the leads can be passed.)

-At $80 including shipping, they are considerably more expensive than the $20 HiVi tweeter.

-Chris's rebuilds are much closer in spec to the original 3a type tweeter, do not require a crossover modification for use in the 3a or LST, and are about the same price.

-I would not at all be concerned about it being manufactured in China. Vintage AR has sold hundreds of Chinese manufactured HiVi tweeters and L-pads, and has never run across a defective one.  ALL of the AB Tech replacement parts in the last 2 decades of business were manufactured in China. There are very few parts not manufactured in Asia these days. Many of them, like the HiVi products (Swan) are designed here in the US or Europe.

I'll order one to play with, primarily to find out how close it is to the AR-11 tweeter and to verify how well it fits the cabinet hole.

The Simply Speakers tweeter is a left over from AB Tech. Recessed dome, over-priced, and nothing special...

Roy

My brand new Marantz PM5005 was made in China. My old Marantz 2220B needed repairs and I didn't want to put any more money into it. Plus the old Marantz is only 20 watts per channel and I intend to shortly replace my AR 6's with AR 5's which can use the additional power. This is for my 'office' system which is an AR 77-XB turntable with GE VR 1000-7 cartridge, Marantz PM5005, and for now, AR 6's. My 'other' stereo has the AR 3a's.

[Phxjohn]

On 9/27/2017 at 6:28 PM, frankmarsi said:

Why you will, won't you JKent?

Besides, you're here often enough, you can tell us all of your results day by day.

Won't you?  Please say you will. If for nothing else, then do it for God and country.

My word, this is a dream come true and rather historic for us all.

Think of it, it's just in time for Christmas joy and cheer for all of us.

And JKent, if you're still sporting a white beard, you could be Santa, I'll even donate my Santa suit from my last gig.

I'll even wash it first before I pass it on to you. I'm a size 34 pants, think it'll fit you?

Hurry, somebody call Roy C. he must be a part of this joy and happiness immediately because he deserves to know. And while you're at it some one contact chris1this1 too.

Sadly, I may jot be able to squander any more money because 10 years ago when the word on the street was the ABTech tweeters, I purchased 22 of those.   When the word on the street was the HiVi tweeters, why I purchased 21 of those too. And in the last 18 months, I've purchased 18 AR-9 used tweeters in preparation for installing in my AR-LST's and AR-9.

You might say, I'm all tweetered-out. Or is that tweedle dee and tweedle dum?

Nonetheless members, haul the wagons into a circle and be prepared to celebrate like never before, or like it's 1999.

And to think they're  "Power Rating: 75 Watts / 150 Watts Max"  which is a whole lot more handling ability than those original shitty little AR tweeters were. 

FM

 

I have 60 NOS replacement styli for my GE VR 1000 cartridge. LOL.

 

[harry398]

well......any results???