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20 hours ago, JKent said:

If you go the Hi-Vi route, they're $18.77 ea at PE. The 0.05mH inductor is $1.98.

JKent - this is the Hi-Vi tweeter, correct? it's 6 ohms... this will work with the inductor with with my 8 ohm AR5s?

I see people mention in the reviews they've used with the AR2ax (8 ohm) and the AR3 (4 ohm)...

https://www.parts-express.com/hivi-q1r-1-1-8-textile-dome-tweeter--297-417#lblProductDetails

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Hi cb

I'll try to address your last 3 posts.

  • I'm not a Facebook user so I don't know about tagging but whatever you did, those little boxes do bring up info about the user.
  • Chris's rebuilds are excellent. I just spoke to Roy and he expressed admiration for Chris's work.
  • The fact that the HiVi is back-wired isn't a problem. They can be converted to front-wired by drilling 2 little holes and adding 2 wires. But as I mentioned, I believe your speakers may have been back-wired originally. It looks to me as though the mids were drilled and wired as I described and one tweeter was as well. It is very easy to back-wire. I can go into that if you wish.
  • That damage doesn't look all that bad. Where are you located? There may be other options. As you know, re-veneering is expensive and won't look original.
  • Some AR-5s used the light color linen that is available online. I'm not familiar with your brown cloth but maybe consulting a dry cleaner makes sense. Or you might try to brush off as much as possible, vacuum, then use some spray-on upholstery cleaner. The risk is shrinkage but if you do it on the frame it could work.
  • Repro badges? Why? Were the originals missing? If they are just discolored they can be polished up very easily.
  • Yes--the HiVi tweeter is 6 Ohms. I spoke to Roy (he's the one who came up with this mod) and he said it will work fine in the 3a, 2ax and 5. Just be sure to use the coil as I described previously. Use the .05, not .07: https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-005mh-18-awg-perfect-layer-inductor-crossover-coil--257-798

So. I think I answered your questions. If you are anywhere near northern NJ I'd be happy to take a look at them but if not we can help here. My suggestion is to go with the HiVi tweeters and no cabinet work. That will allow you to get the speakers up and running for about 50 bux and you can see if you love them. You may then decide to go all out and get Chris to rebuild your original tweeters. You can sell the HiVis here or on ebay and probably get half the expense back. 

Glenn (GD70) is an expert at repairing cabinets. If you have the time and inclination you may be able to fix that corner yourself. Basically, you get into the seam and dig out all the loose and swollen particles. Then put glue in the joint and clamp it tightly with bar clamps (I can go into more detail). When it's all dry you scrape off any oozed-out glue and sand the cabinets VERY lightly, avoiding edges where you could go through the veneer. Then there are various ways to refinish but what I usually do is go over all of the wood with walnut color Howard Restore-a-Finish to even out the color. Wipe that dry and wait a day, then wipe on Watco Danish Oil, either natural or walnut. The original finish was boiled linseed oil, so you could use that instead of the Watco.

Kent

 

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1 hour ago, JKent said:

So. I think I answered your questions.

YES! you've been most helpful! I've learned ALOT the last couple of days. this forum and it's users are a wealth of information!!

I’m almost certain I’m going with rebuilds from Chris and I’m really leaning towards trying the Hi-Vi tweeters too. it’s a small price to pay to have back-ups on hand. And I’d like to hear them both too.

I’ve got a busy weekend in front of my but I’m gonna TRY to get back to these guys this weekend. or guy I should say. I've got one rebuilt (new L pads and caps, refoamed woofers), one left to do. I’m almost certain they’re both still front-wired and it’s not visible. I peeled the tape back a couple of months ago when I got them.

Since posting I have seen several photos of the Hi-Vis. The holes drilled thru for front wiring, the way they should be wired up. So I’m pretty clean on what I need to do.

As to the cabs… I’m in St. Louis. I’m going to clean them up and re-assess. But I’m really leaning towards either dealing with it as it after clean up or trying to self repair that one seam as you’ve mentioned. I’ve got some big ass clamps. And I understand your description of the repair. I think this might be within my skillset. ;) I might pester Glenn as you recommended there too. I’ve read great things about the Restore a Finish. But no experience as of yet. I’m sure it’s coming tho. I’ve got a couple of consoles I’m also working on. And you can tell what might follow me home.  :) 

I’m leaning more and more to dry cleaning the grill clothe. Unless someone here, or the dry cleaner express concern. They both in decent shape. Just dirty, dusty and cobwebby.

My badges are ROUGH. I thought I had photos of both the originals and the reproductions. But I can’t find them. The reproductions are very well done. I’ll post photos of both tonight or this weekend. I don’t have much invested in the reproductions. I don’t feel like I have to use them. If I can clean up the originals, I will. But I’m not holding out much hope there. ?

Thanks again for all the great info and feedback JKent. As I mentioned, I’ve got a busy weekend in store. And a couple of other projects on deck (whole other threads there! new to me Pioneer amp and Thorens turntable)… but the AR5s are a high priority for me after getting a little glimpse into what the final sound will be like. I will certainly post details of my progress.

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Sounds like you're on your way. Ask any and all questions and I hope other members will jump in.

Regarding the badges, they're pretty indestructible. I have one on my desk right now. They're thick solid brass with recessed lettering, filled with dark red enamel.

Depending on how rough yours are, put a piece of fine wet-or-dry sandpaper on a perfectly flat surface (glass is good). You might start with #600, wet. Rub the badge back and forth on the wet sandpaper until the scratches and old lacquer are off, then repeat with progressively finer sandpaper. For example, here's an assortment of sandpapers #400 - 3000: https://www.amazon.com/Sandpaper-Furniture-Finishing-Automotive-Polishing/dp/B01MYGPNFJ/ref=asc_df_B01LZ6TG05/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198089370656&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2638482431878040805&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9003579&hvtargid=pla-382849354049&th=1 

If your sanding surface is perfectly flat the red paint should remain intact. If the paint needs to be touched up you can get a tiny bottle of Testors enamel in a hobby shop.

Once the sanding and polishing is complete, some restorers spray the badges with lacquer. Others dip the badges into a 50/50 solution of polyurethane and paint thinner. I prefer the method suggested by CSP Moderator Gene's grandmother: Rub a little olive on them. You may have to reapply the oil every couple of years but you don't have to worry about tarnish forming under lacquer.

As for the cloth, first try giving them a thorough vacuuming and brushing.

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Cbolen

These AR5s are similar to yours.

This is an old photo showing service replacement tweeters, designed for back wiring, adapted to a front wire baffle.  The tweeters have since been rebuilt but front wiring was preserved.

image.png.6c57ee7f8c1ba8a0a6d7847917bd255b.png

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On 7/12/2019 at 9:11 AM, cbolen said:

JKent - this is the Hi-Vi tweeter, correct? it's 6 ohms... this will work with the inductor with with my 8 ohm AR5s?

I see people mention in the reviews they've used with the AR2ax (8 ohm) and the AR3 (4 ohm)...

https://www.parts-express.com/hivi-q1r-1-1-8-textile-dome-tweeter--297-417#lblProductDetails

cbolen,

Speaking of impedance, you may want to take a resistance measurement of your mids, as they appear to be later replacements. It is not unusual to find the more common low impedance 3a mid used as a replacement in an AR-5. This is a more important consideration than your concern with the HiVi tweeter. The AR-5 mid should read around 5 ohms and the 3a mid will be around 3 ohms.

Roy

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On 7/13/2019 at 11:45 AM, RoyC said:

as they appear to be later replacements

good morning everyone. I finished up with replacing the L pads and caps in my AR5s this past weekend. and I'm quite pleased with what I'm hearing so far even with one dead tweeter.

I have ordered the Hi-Vi tweeters and inductors mentioned here to do fill in duty until I get the original tweeters rebuilt.

with all this said, I was looking more closely at the tweeters and mids in pair. and I'm not certain my dead tweeter is original? or even an AR tweeter? both mids and my single, alive and kicking tweeter both very clearly show the AR logo. my dead tweeter does NOT. can anyone confirm or deny based on front photos?

photo #1 - close up of my dead tweeter - NO AR logo visible
photo #2 - close up of this same dead tweeter and the mid. mid clearly shows AR logo
photo #3 - close up of OTHER tweeter and mid. both clearly show AR logo

I picked up some Howard's restore-a-finish and some feed n wax over the weekend. I'm hoping to get some time to work on these this week. photos 4 and 5 show the worst side of my cabinets before treatment or cleaning of any kind.

 

 

ar5 tweeter.jpg

ar5 tweeter & mid.jpg

AR markings visible.jpg

ar5 cabinets.jpg

ar5 cabinets2.jpg

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The tweeter may not be original but it appears to be genuine AR.   You will know more when you remove them.  Your alive and kicking tweeter is moribund and is only showing a pulse.  The HiVi tweeters may be all you need unless originality of appearance is a goal.

Adams

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cbolen,

The dead tweeter is an AR tweeter, and more likely to be original to the cabinet than the others. Some later AR drivers had logos (beginning in the mid 70's), and all earlier ones did not. The non-original front-wiring of rear terminal drivers in your cabinets is also a very good indication that those drivers are not original to the cabinets. As I mentioned above, you should check the resistance of the mids to make sure they are not the lower impedance , but otherwise identical AR-3a drivers...which are much more common than replacement AR-5 drivers.

Roy

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so I've just been pissing away money "restoring" what I thought were original speakers. great news.... feeling more and more like a monday by the minute. ? I guess I'll try to cancel my tweeter order before it ships. no point in wasting any more.

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16 minutes ago, cbolen said:

so I've just been pissing away money "restoring" what I thought were original speakers. great news.... feeling more and more like a monday by the minute. ? I guess I'll try to cancel my tweeter order before it ships. no point in wasting any more.

All you need to do is measure the resistance of the mids. If they are  later AR-5 replacements they will work as well as the originals, and you can always replace the white wires with more original looking leads. If the mids turn out to be 3a mids, a 2 ohm resistor in series with each can make them act like AR-5 mids. If complete "originality" is important to you, don't bother with the HiVi tweeters. Put that money toward rebuilding the AR tweeters you have.

Roy

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14 minutes ago, RoyC said:

If complete "originality" is important to you

yes it it. I will never hear, from these anyway, what original AR5's sounded / should sound.

I would've never started down this road knowing I was basically starting with nothing but shitty boxes. all I've got right now is tore the f*ck up boxes full of mismatched speakers.

anyway, thanks for your input.

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23 minutes ago, RoyC said:

don't bother with the HiVi tweeters

and this was only to hold me over until I got the originals rebuilt. originals I don't have.. 

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28 minutes ago, cbolen said:

I would've never started down this road....

I've been trying to follow this thread, but I'll admit to getting a bit confused by now. This pair of Euro AR-5's appears to be a potentially excellent restoration project, so the level of frustration building up is a bit perplexing. You are receiving some excellent advice, but you need to take things slowly and begin with some deeper exploration and diagnostics.

Not trying to add to the confusion, but just a couple random thoughts or observations I'll mention here. Re: your "dead" tweeter (with no AR logo), is it possible that your two exposed thin lead wires are in physical contact with each other? And about those midrange drivers: RoyC has already offered directive steps to determine whether these were originally intended for AR-5 or AR-3a, but also, don't these mids have push-on terminals for rear wiring? Same question for the working tweeter (with AR logo) - - are rear wiring terminals available on driver backside?

Just my $0.02, but if three of the four small drivers already have the rear terminals, you might consider seeking a matching AR tweeter (or use two new Hi-Vi's) and proceed with this restoration to get rid of all that exposed external wiring and place it inside the cabinet where it really belongs.    

 

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6 hours ago, cbolen said:

I will never hear, from these anyway, what original AR5's sounded / should sound.

You could if you follow the instructions I posted.

Roy

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break-in question... 

remember, I'm uneducated... but will there be any kind of break-in period with all these new parts I've installed? new foams, caps and now the Hi-Vi tweeters... I have experienced new foams settling in and sounding a little better after a few minutes of playing, I'm not sure about the other part tho??

 

happy friday everyone! thank you all for the education and the fantastic advice.

so I'm moving full speed ahead with my restoration. my (short term) Hi-Vi tweeters and inductors arrived yesterday. I'm hoping to piece those together this weekend and get these bad boys ROCKIN'!! I'm shipping my AR tweeters off to Chris for a rebuild. with any luck, I'll have them rebuilt and back in my hands by Sep 1st if all goes well.

I've got another time sensitive project I'm working on at the moment. an Onkyo turntable restoration, along with a monster Onkyo reciever, for my daughter's birthday next week... my arm's kinda sore from all the dustcover buffing. :( I'm only about halfway thru. once I get that all wrapped up I'm back on these cabinets. :) I've got my Howard's restore-a-finish and feed and wax and my 0000 steel wool at the ready.

thanks so much for all the advice and support guys!! it really is appreciated. :)  

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44 minutes ago, cbolen said:

I've got my Howard's restore-a-finish and feed and wax and my 0000 steel wool at the ready.

Before you begin buffing these up to attain the perfect finish, you really should repair that open corner joint shown in the pic posted on July 12. Also, be careful with the steel wool - - each of these drivers has a strong magnet that might tend to attract many of the loose steel fibers that will shake loose. 

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The "restoreability" of the finishes on these is questionable. Repairing the split corner, added to extensive water damage, is most likely going to call for sanding and a new finish.

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22 hours ago, cbolen said:

my (short term) Hi-Vi tweeters and inductors arrived yesterday. I'm hoping to piece those together this weekend and get these bad boys ROCKIN'!!

hey guys, those of you that have used these Hi-Vi tweeters... I guess it's normal to have to drill these out to reach the mounting hole location in the cabinet?

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On 7/22/2019 at 10:27 AM, RoyC said:

All you need to do is measure the resistance of the mids.

@RoyC pardon the dumb question... but if I remove the bridge on the back, disconnecting the woofers... AND the tweeters are no yet connected... can I measure resistance from the front panel leads?

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1 hour ago, cbolen said:

@RoyC pardon the dumb question... but if I remove the bridge on the back, disconnecting the woofers... AND the tweeters are no yet connected... can I measure resistance from the front panel leads?

If the tweeters and mids are connected to the front terminals with the level controls in place, you won't get an accurate reading regardless of the rear jumper's position. The best way to measure the resistance of the tweeter and mid is to first disconnect one of the front leads of each. (Btw, It is not a dumb question. ?)

Regarding your HiVi post above...I usually drill small holes for 24 or 26ga wire at the side of each "H". See photo...

Regarding your question about "break-in"...the short answer is "no". Experimenting with speaker placement and tweeter/mid level controls will result in much greater differences than anything else. Personal adjustment to the sound is often mistaken as speaker "break-in".

Roy

 

464021220_HiViFront-wiring.jpg.b07dbf7b89dc95c862385698b6e06cee.jpg

 

 

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1 hour ago, RoyC said:

The best way to measure the resistance of the tweeter and mid is to first disconnect one of the front leads of each.

@RoyC thanks again man. I just got my Hi-Vi's in and everything buttoned up for now. I will disconnect the mids and check resistance when I get back to this after the tweeters cone back from rebuild. ?

holy shit guys. I did it. they're reassembled, hooked up and running. they sound pretty amazing. ? I'm still tweaking the controls... which is probably a waste of time at this point since this placement is very temporary. 

Im missing a screw... I dug around for that 6th screw for waaaaay too long. special hardware trip for the one screw. dammit. ? and these tweeters are temporary at this point so the connections to the front terminals are temporary too. tweeter rebuild coming so please be nice. 

damn, I'm not looking forward to lugging these Sansuis back downstairs. ???

dammit... I'll resize the photos and try to post again. stay tuned... ? 

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good morning everyone. I got my tweeters back from rebuild from Chris and got them installed over the weekend. I'm very pleased with the outcome. Chris' service was fast and professional. they sound amazing.  ? 

the cabinets in these photos have recieved a single, soft cloth wipe down with Howard's restor-a finish and feed & wax. no steel wool at this point...

by the way, is anyone in the market for some modded Hi-Vi tweeters? ?

20190824_113232.jpg

20190824_113252.jpg

20190824_120628.jpg

20190824_120635.jpg

20190824_122918.jpg

20190824_123023.jpg

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Those look great! Congrats on resurrecting some special speakers! I think you were right to go with "minimally invasive" and only use R-a-F and Feed-n-Wax. Very pretty.

One question: Have you done the push test on the woofer to check for air-tightness? You have back-wired mids that were drilled for front wiring and I'm wondering whether there is any putty or anything to fill the small gaps around the wires.

The photos are small but the one grille shown looks good. What did you do to clean them?

And did you do anything with the open corner you were concerned about?

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7 minutes ago, JKent said:

One question: Have you done the push test on the woofer to check for air-tightness?

hey JKent - no I have not done this test. I haven't resealed around the woofers yet. and tbh, I had forgotten all about it. can you detail this test? or provide a link maybe? I'll ask the fella that rebuilt the tweeters for me if he sealed around the wires on the tweeter holes. thanks for bringing that up.

I've been using these for weeks without having resealed around the woofers. and I'm enjoying the sound. can I expect a drastic improvement when I reseal??

on the grill cloth... all I did was lint roll and vacuum them. I also haven't worked on the badges at all yet either. 

and on the split corner... no, I haven't done anything with that yet. I haven't decided what I'm going to do with that.

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