Follow up ar-5

[Phxjohn]

I don't want to start a new thread. I have read your posts about a 12" AR 5. I had come up with something different, totally ignoring marketing. Let me see if I can remember. Okay, I had wished that the 5 was 'born' earlier with a cloth surround woofer, a dome midrange, and the old orange dome tweeter. I am under the impression that it is a better tweeter when it comes to output and longevity. Am I correct ? I think the later 3/4" dome tweeter had better dispersion, but did they 'throw the baby out with the bath' to get it ? What are your impressions of the orange dome tweeter vs the later 3/4" dome ? If there is already a thread on that, would you be so kind as to point me to it ? 

[RoyC]

25 minutes ago, Phxjohn said:

I don't want to start a new thread. I have read your posts about a 12" AR 5. I had come up with something different, totally ignoring marketing. Let me see if I can remember. Okay, I had wished that the 5 was 'born' earlier with a cloth surround woofer, a dome midrange, and the old orange dome tweeter. I am under the impression that it is a better tweeter when it comes to output and longevity. Am I correct ? I think the later 3/4" dome tweeter had better dispersion, but did they 'throw the baby out with the bath' to get it ? What are your impressions of the orange dome tweeter vs the later 3/4" dome ? If there is already a thread on that, would you be so kind as to point me to it ? 

The orange dome tweeter has indeed held up better than the smaller black dome, but it is hard to say which one was "better" to begin with. Not all reviewers were convinced the 3a was an improvement over the 3.

I've always felt that the dispersion attributes of the smaller tweeter are not readily apparent in most settings, especially with the grilles on. Given the success of the orange dome tweeter in the 2ax and 3, there is no reason why a decent pair of orange dome tweeters could not be used as acceptable replacements in a pair of front-wired 5's. The tweeter crossover cap was the same 4uf for the 2ax (both versions) and 5. Of course, dealing with the orange dome tweeter's aluminum leads is never fun...

Roy

[Phxjohn]

Is the orange like the black in this respect: 3 had 4 ohm, 2a and 2ax had 8 ohm ? Output in the original speaker system: Does the orange have louder possible output than the black ? ((Remember Consumer Reports stating that the 'treble sounded distant in the new 3a' (almost exact quote. Almost.))  Which tweeter extends higher in Hz ? And then finally (for now), it begs the question...Would the orange tweeters have been a good solution as replacements for weak or non-functioning black tweeters ? (On a larger scale. You just mentioned it would be fine case by case so to speak) Expense ? That is relative. Scarcity ? That is much harder to deal with. This is very interesting..

[Phxjohn]

Some of the preceding questions relate to the major previous project of finding suitable replacements for the aging and worn out black dome tweeters. I had to edit the preceding because as originally written, there was a question that Roy had already answered. It appears that if someone has AR2ax, AR3a, AR 5, LST, or LST2 and needs to replace the black dome tweeters, we have more sanctioned options than ever. Replace with HiVi Q1R's, or orange domes from the 2a, 2ax, or 3 (which leads to this question: an 8 ohm speaker will not perform well in a 4 ohm system. But will a 4 ohm tweeter perform well in an 8 ohm system ? Would the pot or L-pad simply have to be turned down to achieve the desired output level ?), or have the black dome tweeters rebuilt. If any of my statements are incorrect, please correct me for my sake and the other who look to this forum for education. I have owned AR 7's, 2's, 6's, and 3a's over the decades. My fondness for them started in the 60's. I did not know anything about refoaming speakers prior to the Internet. My pair of AR 7's were discarded during the 80's when the woofer foam disintegrated. A friend gave me a pair of 2's during the 80's.They sounded a little dull to me to say the least. I bought a pair of Radio Shack metal midrange/tweeter horns and added L-pads and I was in business. Not until the time of the Internet did I have the resources that I have now to learn about and buy my favorite speakers. Thank you ! to all who contribute.    

[Phxjohn]

I never know when it is appropriate to start a new thread. This is still about the AR 5. We discussed putting the orange tweeter into an AR 5 as a suitable replacement. Would putting a dome midrange into the AR 2ax work ? If it would work, a dome midrange could be put into a first generation 2ax giving the benefits of a cloth surround woofer and the more robust orange dome tweeter.   

[Aadams]

7 hours ago, Phxjohn said:

 We discussed putting the orange tweeter into an AR 5 as a suitable replacement. Would putting a dome midrange into the AR 2ax work ?

 I asked the same question in this forum about 4 years ago. As I recall, the cloth woofer swap is a not a drop in replacement, crossover changes aside. The AR5 Dome Mid installed in AR2ax is a genuine woodworking project that will leave scars on you and the speaker..  .  Listening to FM as background music on AR5s does not require a wide dispersion tweeter.  If there is an aesthetic motive the best solution is a Chris1thisone rebuild.  IMO

[Phxjohn]

I like the idea of an AR5 midrange in a 2ax or a an orange dome tweeter in the 5. If I want it, I have the right to ask about it. I know nothing about Chris1thisone. I don't think we should be telling each other what we require. I remember not long ago, people were saying to use the 'cardboard tube' test to see if the black dome tweeter was working. If you cannot hear each driver from your listening seat, they are defective. I am glad that Roy, Larry, and whoever I have left out came up with the HiVi Q1R as a solution. No matter what purpose I use my AR 5's for, I want functioning tweeters. Without them they will sound horrible to me. In the future, I will be sure to limit the amount of information that I post and stick to direct questions.    

[ra.ra]

38 minutes ago, Phxjohn said:

If I want it, it shall be.

Go for it .... I guess .... but how do you square this statement with your previous one about never modifying speakers? 

[Phxjohn]

You got me there. Senior moment ?

[Aadams]

1 hour ago, Phxjohn said:

I don't think we should be telling each other what we require.

You are correct.  It was a semantic error that I might have caught had I been more careful.   Instead of  .........."wide dispersion" not required,  I should have said "no practical benefit". 

[Phxjohn]

Except there would be insufficient highs with no tweeters. LOL. I just hope that when I buy a pair of 5's that the original black dome tweeters are up to snuff. I don't know where to buy them except on Ebay and not every seller is honest. I have not seen used AR's in HiFi stores in decades. And the chance of my dealer having any ever is remote as he does not like them at all. 

[Aadams]

23 minutes ago, Phxjohn said:

Except there would be insufficient highs with no tweeters

I wasn't saying you don't need tweeters, merely observing wide dispersion would be of no practical benefit with low level FM background music..

[Phxjohn]

AR should have kept the orange dome tweeters. They perform better, last longer, and don't look so cheap. 

[RoyC]

1 hour ago, Phxjohn said:

Except there would be insufficient highs with no tweeters. LOL. I just hope that when I buy a pair of 5's that the original black dome tweeters are up to snuff. I don't know where to buy them except on Ebay and not every seller is honest. I have not seen used AR's in HiFi stores in decades. And the chance of my dealer having any ever is remote as he does not like them at all. 

I doubt there are any all-original AR models from the early days with perfect tweeters, regardless of tweeter version.

You have a "dealer"?

Roy

[Phxjohn]

Stereo equipment dealer. Haha. Of course he never is interested in my trade ins. Since you are here....are the orange dome tweeters and black dome tweeters the same size, specifically, will they fit into the same hole size ? Thank you !  

[RoyC]

17 minutes ago, Phxjohn said:

Stereo equipment dealer. Haha. Of course he never is interested in my trade ins. Since you are here....are the orange dome tweeters and black dome tweeters the same size, specifically, will they fit into the same hole size ? Thank you !  

The tweeter and screw holes are the same.

[Phxjohn]

Cool !!!! Thank you !!!!     Last one.....please....Will dome midrange from AR 5 fit into opening in AR 2ax cabinet ?  

[Phxjohn]

I guess it would make more sense to put the orange dome tweeters into a 5 than the 5 midrange into a 2ax due to the much higher crossover woofer to the 'midrange' in the 2ax. The 2ax does not really have a midrange as the crossover frequency is so high.   

[lARrybody]

14 hours ago, Phxjohn said:

Replace with HiVi Q1R's, or orange domes from the 2a, 2ax, or 3 (which leads to this question: an 8 ohm speaker will not perform well in a 4 ohm system. But will a 4 ohm tweeter perform well in an 8 ohm system ?

If I understand the orange dome tweeter correctly, there is no difference whether it came from a AR3, AR2a or AR2ax. They all used the same tweeter. I have two almost identical sets of AR5's. To me the tweeters sound fine. I wonder if I had one set of tweeters rebuilt what difference I would here. To me a higher output tweeter would be desirable, but not knowing how these sounded when new and my 60+ year old ears not hearing high frequencies the same anymore, what conclusions would I realize? 

[Phxjohn]

Probably louder and possibly more extended highs. Who is rebuilding tweeters these days and where can I read about it ? 

[ra.ra]

3 hours ago, Phxjohn said:

Will dome midrange from AR 5 fit into opening in AR 2ax cabinet ?  

Aadams has already responded to this question - - this effort would require some serious cabinet butchery.

1 hour ago, Phxjohn said:

Who is rebuilding tweeters these days

This has also been addressed with the referral to Chris1.

[Phxjohn]

Roy stated that the tweeter size was the same. And I have no idea who Chris is. I don't appreciate your comments at all. I wanted an answer about the midrange from Roy. What, am I supposed to expect that everyone on here is an expert ?   

[ra.ra]

Sheesh.... relax, please. I am trying to point out that you might want to slow down a bit and read and understand the many helpful comments that have already been made on your behalf by other experienced members here. Roy is indeed a favorite contributor for so many of us because of his genial nature, patience and generosity, communication skills, and seriously deep wealth of knowledge, but if only his responses will satisfy you, please use the built-in system of personal messaging. Otherwise, remember that this is a public online forum with oodles of eyes and various voices participating, and since you seem not to appreciate my attempts to mollycoddle, I shall tuck my tail between my legs, whimper to myself, and exit this thread .......stage left...... before you reach for the hole saw to try to try to fit those dome mids into the 2ax cabinets. 

[Phxjohn]

What's mollycoddle ? 

[Phxjohn]

I think an orange dome tweet in an AR 5 makes more sense. Of course the Q1R's may have greater extension. I also love Klipsch speakers.