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AR 18 LS- Repair or Replace?


sc-em

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Thanks Jeff. I have ordered the kit now so here's to a good refoaming. I will have to watch all the videos as I am not sure what the shims do. I am used to shims in part engines and suspension, but don't think they work the same way, just being a centralising method I assume.

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When you remove the dust cap you will see a solid silver color cylinder in the center. That's the pole piece. Around that is a tube wrapped with thin copper wire. That's the voice coil (VC). There is a tiny gap between the VC and the pole piece and the shims are used to temporarily hold everything in the proper alignment as you work on it. They also have a secondary benefit of providing friction so you can raise or lower the cone while working on it. After the faom is all glued in place and dry, remove the shims, vacuum the pole piece and glue the dust cap on.

-Kent

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If you do not fear removing the dust cap, then most repairers would say that shimming is the way to go. It is just a thin piece of card or similar that locates in 3 or 4 positions around the voice coil gap. So when you position the new foam surround there is no movement of the cone and voice coil. From my limited experience I would say that the smaller the woofer diameter the easier it is to get away without shimming. Sending a test tone helps to ensure the new surround is correctly positioned.

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Yep. Thats where i have ordered the kit from. Having watched the videos i'm quite looking forward the giving it a go. I assume dust caps come with kit 

Where the screw go a guess you make sure the is enough glue around the hole to seal and then run a small drill through to open up the hole. 

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@sc-em

I usually  never shim voice coil when refoaming.   Anyway when refoaming the woofers, try not to use more glue than it was used originally (i.e don't let the glue dirty the paper cone). If you decide to shim the voice coil, save the original dust cup (see ra.ra's picture) and reuse it. It is not necessary to remove it completely cutting all its circumference along. You can leave it connected by a small part that allows you to bend it and shim the voice coil. So it is very easy to reglue it in the original position.  Imho preserving the original appearance is very important with vintage drivers and speakers.

If it is your first refoam, watch as many videos as you can before acting.

Luigi

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On ‎30‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 4:41 PM, ra.ra said:

If those foams work for the AR-7 as shown in the link, they should work fine for the 8" woofer in the 18LS as well. I cannot tell exactly which woofer is used in your speakers, but it appears to have a dust cap similar to this one from woofer p/n 200037. If so, the cap is very thin and soft, but can be re-glued (as shown here) after being cut for shimming during the re-foam process. 

 

037 cap after.jpg

ra.ra. Did you cut the dust cover right up to the edge or where the sort of seem appears to be? The latter would seem more straightforward. I was going to use a razor to make it as thin a cut as possible so the glue will fill the smallest of gaps. Does this sound like a plan?

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ra.ra. did a truly expert job on that. You can use a fresh razor blade. You want to be careful not to nick the voice coil or the thin leads to the vc, visible to the right of the cap in the photo. I use a thin X-Acto knife, held at a low angle (handle almost parallel with the woofer cone) and not cutting too deeply. Leave a bit uncut so you can hinge the cap back while shimming. When finished run a thin bead of white glue (Elmer's, Aleene's or the white glue that comes with the kit). It dries translucent.

I outlined a portion of the cut on ra.ra.'s photo.

dust cap.jpg

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The first pic attached shows this same woofer with the shims in place and the dust cap cut and hinged back. The second pic shows the cap after re-attachment. The third pic(s) show the re-gluing of a different AR-7 woofer flat dust cap using a similar process.

Kent has accurately described the process of cutting the cap, regardless of the cap's material. It should be noted, however, that for me, this particularly dust cap (very thin, glossy, domed) was the most difficult type to work with. It is very flexible and floppy which makes the cutting a delicate process, and it is so thin and non-absorptive that it makes the re-gluing step also more difficult. Just take your time, work slowly, and use a sharp blade.

woofer shim.jpg

dust cap.jpg

woofer re-foam 2.jpg

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Not much but they will slip in between the pole and the voice coil. If you bought a kit that came with shims there may be different thicknesses included. Nice job of cleaning the metal frame btw.

Notice in your photo that there are bits of debris on the pole piece. You DON'T want those getting lodged between the pole and the vc so be sure to vacuum them out. You can do it now and also before re-gluing the cap. Be careful not to distort the thin copper vc.

So far so good.

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Thanks for that. A little light vacuum to remove the debris. Hopefully the kit will be here tomorrow and so I can have a go. I was going to use cotton buds to apply glue, but there may be a brush in the kit. The cotton fibre may also become detached I suppose.

Good old scrape and then v fine wet and dry with a smidge of WD40. Cleaned enough car parts that way.

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Yes you certainly need to glue from about 9 o clock to 2 o clock on your photo. When you do it, try and press the foam to the cone gently trough the holes in the basket, as the glue starts to cure. I hope others can give advice for you.

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Overnight will not hurt. I don't know what to advise about re-sticking the dust cover before a test, because the partly attached dust cover could rattle/vibrate and could deflect from whether the re-foam is effective or not. As you have shimmed, your main concern should be whether there is any significant air leaks around the foam, not the centering of the VC. Remember I did not remove the dust covers when I did my woofers.

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21 hours ago, JKent said:

Not much but they will slip in between the pole and the voice coil. If you bought a kit that came with shims there may be different thicknesses included. Nice job of cleaning the metal frame btw.

Notice in your photo that there are bits of debris on the pole piece. You DON'T want those getting lodged between the pole and the vc so be sure to vacuum them out. You can do it now and also before re-gluing the cap. Be careful not to distort the thin copper vc.

So far so good.

that's why I usually don't cut the cap, and use a 30hz test tone.....

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I haven't cut a single dust cap so far with all my repairs. Luckily AR driver are very forgiving.

One thing I normally make sure is to check the sagging on the spiders. If they are sagging slightly, I normally put the driver upside down ( before installing the new foam surround) and use a hair dryer to warm the spider and then put some weight behind the cone to 'hopefully' push (away from the magnet) and restore the position of the cone before glueing the foam surround. 9 times out of 10 it works but sometime they get way beyond repair and you have have to make do !.

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Well they live again.  Hooray. One forgets how good proper speakers can sound. Just warming up with a bit of Satriani.

Just a thought though. I can't imagine speaker cable has advanced much, but is it worth investing in some new and if so what recommendation would you have without going to OTT?

Thanks for all the help in putting the 18s back in working order. :D

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Quote

Well they live again.  Hooray.

Hooray indeed. Congratulations! Are you hooked yet on DIY speaker repair? ;)

Quote

 I can't imagine speaker cable has advanced much, but is it worth investing in some new

It hasn't. And no.

I use 18 ga lamp cord or for longer runs the 16 ga "hi-fi speaker wire" sold by PE. Some of the big box stores have perfectly good speaker wire. I'd just stay away from "CCA" wire--copper-coated aluminum. Pure copper is best.

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Hooked? Not so sure about that. lol.

This the cable I have at the mo. The limitation seems to be the clamps I have in the back of the Rotel rather than the connectors like the back of the speakers. Other amps offer better options like the speaker backs (must have a name...posts?)

My 58s have arrived......bugger they are big....:o

cable.jpg

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