sc-em Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Hello guys. I am a total newbie on the site, so hi to all better informed than I. Many years ago I bought a set of 18LS speakers new, to mate with my Rotel amp and Dual turntable. Needless to say they fell into largely disuse with TV surround sound etc. However, I have now decided to set my system up again to show my girls that vinyl does have a place in the modern Ipad society. Anyway, the speakers had been stored in my mum's garage which is a little damp. So when all the system was plugged in the speakers sounded dreadful. Upon investigation the surround on the cones (the foam?) seems to have largely deteriorated. So, is this a simple and effective repair that can be done by anyone, or a specialist job that means that it would be more cost effective to buy replacements such as some AR925E Teledynes I have found for £120. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stimpy Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Hi SC, A refoam is a fairly easy procedure. I've done the mids and woofers, on my AR90s, without prior experience. Everything turned out fine. As long as you're patient, and careful, you shouldn't have a problem. Plus, be sure to order from a supplier, that carries the correct foam. Size, compliance and thickness varies. Best to use foam stated to be correct for AR. How to Refoam Also, for that price, I'd have to grab those 925's too! A 10" 3-way, using the AR9 & 90 dome mid and tweeter. A variation of the AR92s. So, they should be a very good speaker as well. Welcome to the CSP, and Good Luck! Stimpy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc-em Posted December 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Thanks for that help. Where would one get the foam etc from exactly? I did remember back when i got them there was a wiring mod that could be made. What could that be? so you reckon those others are worth a punt regardless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stimpy Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 eBay and Audio Karma member looneytune is a good source of the correct AR foam. For the 18s, or the 925s, if you end up with those too! Which I would recommend! AR18 Foam AR925 foam As far as a wiring mod; I'm not sure with the 18s? I haven't heard of that. Maybe a recap? That couldn't hurt. I 'believe' there is only a single capacitor for the tweeter. The woofer is designed for a natural roll-off (in some/most versions?). If you're in the UK, you could try Falcon Acoustics, for the capacitors. They carry good NPE's and/or Poly's, which ever you'd like to try. Falcon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stimpy Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Another thread discussing a 925 restore! (No pressure)! AR925SE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc-em Posted December 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Thanks again Stimpy. You have to understand that a lot of what you are telling me is over my head at the moment. lol. I will try and keep up. Yes I am in the UK, so will check out the web sites. I should be able to do the job as long as I can source the bits. Hopefully the 925's don't need a restore. One set at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason4300 Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 There's many good videos on youtube for refoaming. Sometimes a video can help you better visualize how it's done. Luckily, AR18's are about as easy as they come for restorations. There's only one cap and the woofer is fairly forgiving when redoing the surrounds. I would confidently say that shimming the voicecoil is not necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc-em Posted December 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 A good starting refoam then, Shimming voice coil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason4300 Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Normally, you would put shims around the voicecoil when refoaming to keep everything centered. As seen here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc-em Posted December 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Ah yes I saw this about ensuring the centring is accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert_S Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 16 hours ago, sc-em said: would be more cost effective to buy replacements such as some AR925E Teledynes I have found for £120. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks Hold Up! If the AR-925E that you are considering are the pair currently on eBay, UK, then I would advise that you avoid these, due to the fact that none of the drivers look to be original, let alone AR drivers. (It is possible the mid-ranges are original AR, certainly the faceplates, but if so they have been modified.) Caveat emptor is more than appropriate, in my opinion, for these . . . abominations. If you are looking for something more substantial and authoritative than the AR-18LS (which, though an excellent speaker, has inherent sonic limitations, due to its (bookshelf) form factor, especially regarding bass and maximum output level, when compared to the floor-standers) — a far better option would be the pair of AR-92, that are also on the auction site. These look to be in very nice condition, with original drivers. The dent in one of the mid-range drivers is not a serious issue, fixable in my experience. These drivers are how the ones in the AR-925 should look. (The AR-925 was basically a later iteration of the AR-92, same components, in a less costly cabinet design; both excellent speakers.) Hope that is of some help. Robert_S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc-em Posted December 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Right Robert. Thanks for doing the search on ebay. Yes they were the ones I was looking at. Good job there are such observers as you on the site. You may have saved me a few quid if they are not as AR as they should be. The other ones in Doncaster are too far away for the jaunt, so unless there are other options I will see if I can get my foam in the UK instead of the Netherlands or US where most seem to be advertised from. I don't' have to have AR's I just fancied some decent speakers to set up with my amp and turntable again. My bro has KEF Coda 2's back in the day with a NAD amp, so probably a bit better than my set up. A photo of mine as they stand/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stimpy Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 12 hours ago, Robert_S said: Hold Up! If the AR-925E that you are considering are the pair currently on eBay, UK, then I would advise that you avoid these, due to the fact that none of the drivers look to be original, let alone AR drivers. (It is possible the mid-ranges are original AR, certainly the faceplates, but if so they have been modified.) Caveat emptor is more than appropriate, in my opinion, for these . . . abominations. If you are looking for something more substantial and authoritative than the AR-18LS (which, though an excellent speaker, has inherent sonic limitations, due to its (bookshelf) form factor, especially regarding bass and maximum output level, when compared to the floor-standers) — a far better option would be the pair of AR-92, that are also on the auction site. These look to be in very nice condition, with original drivers. The dent in one of the mid-range drivers is not a serious issue, fixable in my experience. These drivers are how the ones in the AR-925 should look. (The AR-925 was basically a later iteration of the AR-92, same components, in a less costly cabinet design; both excellent speakers.) Hope that is of some help. Robert_S I'm sorry I recommended them, without doing more research! Those definitely can't be called AR925E's. Nothing original but the cabinets! Good catch Robert_S! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc-em Posted December 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 Oh no I have seen some mission 737R. Better than the AR92 or is mission a swear word on here? Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc-em Posted December 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 Before I go ahead and order, will these do for my 18 LS or would they be different, please? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151882159579?euid=1b910e62c8474b52a2e0c8acf232cc6c&bu=43161412528&cp=1&sojTags=bu=bu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ra.ra Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 If those foams work for the AR-7 as shown in the link, they should work fine for the 8" woofer in the 18LS as well. I cannot tell exactly which woofer is used in your speakers, but it appears to have a dust cap similar to this one from woofer p/n 200037. If so, the cap is very thin and soft, but can be re-glued (as shown here) after being cut for shimming during the re-foam process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc-em Posted December 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 Thanks ra.ra. I may just get the foam and see. What harm can I do? There are some AR58's on ebay, but a bit pricey and too far away or I may ne tempted...again. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fedeleluigi Posted January 3, 2017 Report Share Posted January 3, 2017 As I said in your other thread, if all of the drivers are OK (but the woofer foam) I would refoam them anyway. The 18LSs are very good loudspeakers. Luigi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted January 4, 2017 Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 Welcome sc-em! Definitely re-foam those speakers! It may look a bit daunting but it's pretty simple. Watch the videos and take your time. Shimming is the only way to be certain the voice coil is centered. You can carefully slice the old dust cap off and later replace it with one slightly larger, or, a more elegant solution is that shown by ra.ra.: Very carefully slit almost all the way around the old dust cap and hinge it back to place your shims. Later just flap it back down and run a thin bead of white glue. The foams should come with glue. Easiest kind for beginners is the white glue (that's all I use). It's water-soluble so you can clean up any goofs easily. It's best to remember it's a bit like contact cement so when gluing the surround to the cone put a thin coat on BOTH surfaces, wait a bit for it to tack up, then press them together. Here's another advantage to the white glue. If the 2 pieces don't go together properly just pull them apart, wipe off the glue and start over. The Parts Express video Jason linked is very good. Best bet for the first-timer is to buy a complete kit that includes the foam, shims, glue, dust caps and instructions. I would wait more than 15 minutes between gluing the inner and outer edges. Overnight is a good idea. One step they left out: Before replacing the dust cap it’s a good idea to vacuum the recess under the cap to be sure there is no dust or grit in there.If you are not ready to jump in with both feet, re-capping can probably wait. The electrolytic crossover capacitors typically last 20 or 30 years or more. Yours may be fine. Ask questions here. Also, take a look at the "Restoring the AR-3a" booklet that's linked at the beginning of the AR section. It will give a good overview to speaker restoration although your speakers are newer and a bit less complicated. Also, we have a few members here from the UK and maybe some of them will have advice on local sources for woofer foam. Good luck! Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc-em Posted January 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 Thanks ra.ra. I may just get the foam and see. What harm can I do? There are some AR58's on ebay, but a bit pricey and too far away or I may ne tempted...again. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc-em Posted January 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 HI Kent, Thanks for the detailed information. It is most helpful. I would like to have a go at refoaming them. It can't be that tricky. lol. However, the main issue is that I can't seem to get the foam anywhere in the UK, so by the time I have ordered from aboard, including glue and shims I am probably half way towards the price of the AR58s, which appear to be a much better speaker. (18's great but.....you get what you pay for I guess) I wont part with them, just wait and see if foams become available here. In the mean time I have nowt I can listen to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ra.ra Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 I'm pretty sure there are sources for these foams in the UK, but at least here is one Euro source that offers several 8" foam surrounds for AR speakers. I think I've looked at this source before, since they also offer both cloth and rubber surrounds (for other projects obviously). http://www.speakerrepairshop.nl/index.php?action=page&group_id=10000033&lang=en#.WG6ZpChGZ4A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 ... and as I said, we do have some Brits here so maybe one of them will notice this thread and offer advice on where to obtain foams. CSP members RobHolt, Jeff_C and djcheung spring to mind but there are others. This a place in the Netherlands sells the surrounds for €6.19 each + postage: http://speakerrepairshop.nl/index.php?item=foam-ring-for-acoustic-research-ar18ls-_8-inch_-woofers&action=article&group_id=10000033&aid=3090&lang=en#.WG6eo7YrJBw Have you tried a google search? This place in the UK has a complete kit for the 18LS for ￡24.20 including postage http://www.speaker-repairs.co.uk/shop/refoam/ar.html -Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc-em Posted January 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 Google was my first port of call, but probably before I knew quite what I wanted. I shall order a kit now, so be prepared for many a mundane question later. I can see I may even start asking proper technical questions as I see some shops allow you to make up your own speakers. Oh no what have I started? Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff_C Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 I ordered foams and glue from Good HiFi's webshop in the Netherlands http://speakerrepairshop.nl/index.php?action=home&lang=EN#.WG9zo4XXKcw, and could recommend them. I emailed the proprietor first and got a friendly helpful reply. Until Kent's post above I was unaware of any seller in the UK.. It would be useful to hear recommendations or otherwise from anyone who has bought from them. I too was a little apprehensive about whether I could do the repair myself, but I did manage it with success. This was my first time re-foam and I received encouragement and help from the friendly folk here. I did not shim the voice coils, but used a 30Hz test tone as the glue was setting on the foam surrounds. I wrote a brief summary of my procedure and experience here :- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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