lakecat Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Yep.... a two drive to Pa. produced these fine specimens. Two owner and the last owner had them for over twenty-five years and never hooked them up. Got them in a trade for tools and just never got around to setting them up. Stepping into his house told me why.....it ...was like walking into a set of "American Pickers"....lol. This gentleman had been an audio enthusiast since late sixties and was even a disc jockey at a local radio station in Pittsburgh. There were literally hundreds of audio equipment stacked everywhere. His garage was filled with shelves of audio and collectable stuff. He had just sold twenty one thousand albums to a guy in Texas...who drove there and got them!...crazy. Anyways..... We get the LST's set up in his living room and he hooks a Radio Shack amp to them no less and turns it on. We both were just floored with the sound. The best part?.....every driver worked! He had never heard them and was clearly surprised by the sound. He had stored them in his bedroom closet all these years and cabs were almost perfect except some scratches on bottom. One woofer has been replaced and the other; whoever had refoamed it at one time; put a large dust cap on it. Both woofers need new foam. The only other thing we discussed was the grill material. He thought it was original and it certainly has been on there a very long time. I just have never seen grill material other than the lambswool on the LST. The badges are missing and he said he had no idea if they were ever on there or not since he had them. He is gonna look though. My question is did the LST badge have the screw on back or was it just adhesive that made it stick to grill? I see no evidence of hole in grill backer or a piece of wood on cab front for it like the AR3 or 3a. Thanks for any help and excited to get these up and running correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidDru Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Fantastic find! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ra.ra Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 What a the great story, thanks - - will be interested to hear more about these speakers. The cabs look nearly new; the drivers look undamaged, and even the textured black grille cloth looks very good (and expertly installed). Finds like this don't come along every day. Congrats to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakecat Posted October 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Thanks guys....I do feel fortunate...but am having trouble getting one spatial control knob loose and removed. Acts like it is almost glued on. The other came off easily. Heat and WD down the alan screw hole has done nothing. Even tapped on it heated. Hate the thought of cutting up grill to get behind this. Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ar_pro Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 GREAT find, lakecat - congratulations! Do you have any way of grasping the entire knob, and gently turning it against the resistance in each direction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KlausDK Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Logo plates are glued on, No screws. Congrats, look great! !! BRgds Klaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlsplace Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 3 hours ago, lakecat said: Thanks guys....I do feel fortunate...but am having trouble getting one spatial control knob loose and removed. Acts like it is almost glued on. The other came off easily. Heat and WD down the alan screw hole has done nothing. Even tapped on it heated. Hate the thought of cutting up grill to get behind this. Any ideas? Very nice find ... rule of thumb on destructive disassembly is least expensive part first. Is it possible to gain access from the back panel? Otherwise you may be doing surgery on the knob -- at least you have one you can look at and assess the possibilities. Freeze spray is another way to apply heat Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakecat Posted October 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 24 minutes ago, owlsplace said: Very nice find ... rule of thumb on destructive disassembly is least expensive part first. Is it possible to gain access from the back panel? Otherwise you may be doing surgery on the knob -- at least you have one you can look at and assess the possibilities. Freeze spray is another way to apply heat Roger No access....fastened to front of driver panel with nut. I swear this has me baffled. I am hoping some idiot didn't add some glue on this....but it is on there good....sigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xmas111 Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 There are two set screws in those knobs. I found out the hard way....through experience! oh, by the way, what a great find! Enjoy them, I sure enjoy mine. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakecat Posted October 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 31 minutes ago, xmas111 said: There are two set screws in those knobs. I found out the hard way....through experience! oh, by the way, what a great find! Enjoy them, I sure enjoy mine. John Uggghhh....The first came off after removing one set screw....never really looked at it....thinking just one was it. I just turned the knob over to see if I could loosen it that way....and saw the second screw!...lol. So it is off and I had my stupid moment of the day!....sigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupidhead Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 fabulous find. great story too, thanx for sharing and looking forward to watching this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nefertem Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 Hi Lake Cat that's a awesome find, did you see any other vintage amps like Sanusi to go along with the AR Speakers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tysontom Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 14 hours ago, lakecat said: Yep.... a two drive to Pa. produced these fine specimens. Two owner and the last owner had them for over twenty-five years and never hooked them up. Got them in a trade for tools and just never got around to setting them up. Stepping into his house told me why.....it ...was like walking into a set of "American Pickers"....lol. This gentleman had been an audio enthusiast since late sixties and was even a disc jockey at a local radio station in Pittsburgh. There were literally hundreds of audio equipment stacked everywhere. His garage was filled with shelves of audio and collectable stuff. He had just sold twenty one thousand albums to a guy in Texas...who drove there and got them!...crazy. Anyways..... We get the LST's set up in his living room and he hooks a Radio Shack amp to them no less and turns it on. We both were just floored with the sound. The best part?.....every driver worked! He had never heard them and was clearly surprised by the sound. He had stored them in his bedroom closet all these years and cabs were almost perfect except some scratches on bottom. One woofer has been replaced and the other; whoever had refoamed it at one time; put a large dust cap on it. Both woofers need new foam. The only other thing we discussed was the grill material. He thought it was original and it certainly has been on there a very long time. I just have never seen grill material other than the lambswool on the LST. The badges are missing and he said he had no idea if they were ever on there or not since he had them. He is gonna look though. My question is did the LST badge have the screw on back or was it just adhesive that made it stick to grill? I see no evidence of hole in grill backer or a piece of wood on cab front for it like the AR3 or 3a. Thanks for any help and excited to get these up and running correctly. First of all, you have made a good find on those AR-LSTs. Sounds as though the second guy who owned them didn't really know what he had. Second, I was going to ask the question, "did you check for both Allen set screws on the Spectral-Balance Control," but thank goodness someone else asked it before you cut into the grill! And speaking of the grill, those are not originals. It is quite possible that the first owner sent this brown grill material on to AR to have them staple it on the frames, but it was never originally supplied by AR. The material is stapled exactly the way the original beige-linen (not lambswool) was stapled, along with the Velcro material. For one thing, the brown grill material it is fairly opaque and heavy (note how it tugs on the Masonite grill frame), and the "AR-LST" logo plate, which has a self-adhesive to it, would not stick to that material properly, probably the reason the plates are not attached, or perhaps no longer attached, even if originally attempted. Also, it looks like the grill frames are the slightly thicker versions that were used with the later white linen material (this came after the move to Norwood in 1973). The tweeters and the midrange that you show in your images look 100% original, but the tweeter foam suspensions show considerable aging, so I wonder if these are early generation versions or subjected to a lot of temperature, dust and humidity. Could you (1) pull all of the grills off to show all drivers and (2) take a picture of the rear panel of the speaker to show the serial-number label to see which version that you have? The first ones made in Cambridge, Massachusetts were the most desirable. Most of the hard-wired versions came from Cambridge, and by the time production was moved to Norwood, AR began transitioning to a back-wired scheme. Cambridge versions and standard AR serial-number label (white) rather than blue serial-number label. One thing you need to be wary of is a slight change in sensitivity in the tweeters over time (the midrange drivers rarely change sensitivity), and it is easy to get too much current into a single driver if you are not careful. --Tom Tyson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakecat Posted October 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 Good morning Tom and thank you for your input on these beautiful speakers. What stumped me on the controls was the first one come off easily when removing one alan screw......so never imagined two being set into the shaft. Rarely ever see that on something like this. Was just a very dumb moment for me when I turned the knob finally and saw that screw! Came on here to tell everyone and saw X had a similar experience. The seller even said he couldn't get it off and was afraid to mess with it...lol. All is good.... I looked at tweeters closely and don't see the aging like you see it on the domes. Yes...they are old but play nicely but nothing to compare them too. When I had the tube stuck to each driver, they were all very clear and easy to hear.....so I don't know. I had sent pics to Roy before I bought them and he said the one woofer is a replacement but is actually a little better than original. The other woofer of course has the oversize dust cap but the foaming looks very well done. The serial numbers are 587 and 593. Do you know the total made of the LST series? I am gonna quick wash the grills to get grill damp and put it under weight until it dries to get out some warp but the sagging will probably stay at top. It is awful thin up there so don't want to mess with it. I like the look of the grill material so not going to change that. Interesting that AR probably did the install for the buyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakecat Posted October 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 9 hours ago, nefertem said: Hi Lake Cat that's a awesome find, did you see any other vintage amps like Sanusi to go along with the AR Speakers? Good morning. I was pressed for time so had no real opportunity to look around. There was sooooo much is was daunting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidDru Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 Wow! Thats a lot of drivers! AT least only one woofer each to refoam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakecat Posted October 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 16 minutes ago, DavidDru said: Wow! Thats a lot of drivers! AT least only one woofer each to refoam. But you should hear those lots of drivers!...:). Can't wait until surrounds are done but still will never press these drivers. Actually...don't think I will have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tysontom Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 4 hours ago, lakecat said: Good morning Tom and thank you for your input on these beautiful speakers. What stumped me on the controls was the first one come off easily when removing one alan screw......so never imagined two being set into the shaft. Rarely ever see that on something like this. Was just a very dumb moment for me when I turned the knob finally and saw that screw! Came on here to tell everyone and saw X had a similar experience. The seller even said he couldn't get it off and was afraid to mess with it...lol. All is good.... I looked at tweeters closely and don't see the aging like you see it on the domes. Yes...they are old but play nicely but nothing to compare them too. When I had the tube stuck to each driver, they were all very clear and easy to hear.....so I don't know. I had sent pics to Roy before I bought them and he said the one woofer is a replacement but is actually a little better than original. The other woofer of course has the oversize dust cap but the foaming looks very well done. The serial numbers are 587 and 593. Do you know the total made of the LST series? I am gonna quick wash the grills to get grill damp and put it under weight until it dries to get out some warp but the sagging will probably stay at top. It is awful thin up there so don't want to mess with it. I like the look of the grill material so not going to change that. Interesting that AR probably did the install for the buyer. Thanks for getting pictures of all drivers! It looks like all the tweeters and midrange drivers are completely original. If they all work well, you are fortunate and in great shape! You may or may not need to update the crossover capacitors. Occasionally, as with your speakers, you will see mortite mashed in places around the drivers: this speaker was the first from AR to use the new white, prefabricated close-cell foam gaskets, and AR had some trouble at first closing up small air leaks. These gaskets were the white versions, and later these were changed to a black version with better results. AR would use a stethoscope to manually listen all around the speakers during final test while pumping the woofer back and forth at 20 Hz with around 10-20 watts input (that's actually a lot of steady-state power at that frequency), and where an air leak was heard (used to be referred to as a "birdie"), Mortite would be mashed into place. What I am saying about the tweeters is that the urethane-foam suspension pieces (the three "dots") and the butyl-latex that goes around the dome itself have darkened over time. All do this to some extent, probably because of UV light and oxidation. This does not necessarily detract from the performance of the drivers, though over time, some of the foam-suspension 3/4-inch drivers become prone to performance issues. One thing I did notice is that the bottom woofer is the newer Tonegen replacement woofer that AR began using as a replacement version in the 1980s and 1990s. This woofer is characterized by the foam pad glued around the frame adjacent to the mounting screws; the original woofer (the one above) doesn't have that pad. The Tonegen woofer (made in Japan) is a slightly more consistent, rugged woofer than the original, but it has a higher free-air resonance (around 20-22 Hz vs. 17 Hz on the original) which slightly reduces the low-frequency output -- barely audible unless you have them side-by-side on very deep-bass signals. You should either get another Tonegen woofer to match, or get another 200003-0 woofer like the top one to replace the Tonegen. I don't know why anyone would replace the original dust cap with a big piece like the top woofer, but it's there and not much can be done about it now. You do have an early AR-LST set according to your serial numbers, and they are close together, which is very good. These LSTs are among the more desirable in my view, as some of the later version built in Norwood were not as carefully tested and measured. If I were you, I'd replace that dark-cloth grill material (it looks denser and more sound-absorbing than the original) and use some of the replacement beige linen being offered by some on this forum. None of the replacement linen is exactly equivalent to AR's original 1967-1972 beige linen, but some are very close. I would also standardize the woofers to the original type, and make sure that the re-foam work gives a free-air resonance (fs) of the woofers of approximately 17 Hz for best performance. Some replacement foam surrounds are too stiff, and these raise the resonance frequency, so have the woofers tested for this. --Tom Tyson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakecat Posted October 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 Thanks so much Tom for your generous advice and knowledge. I still can't believe I got this beautiful rare pair. The seller had these on CL for over a week before I responded. I emailed him and asked about them....and never heard back so assumed they were sold quickly. A week later, I get an email from him saying he saw my email in his junk folder and said he still had them. Just seemed to be serendipity. I am keeping these grills for the history and may just order completed grills with lambswool from Larry at AR or do my own but lots of work. I have another Tonegen woofer here that I just refoamed so it may join the other. I hate that huge dustcap and even if I remove it and put on the right dustcap, it will still show on cone. 22 Hz is plenty low enough for me....:) I get my foams from Larry..so good to go. Thanks so much for the explanation on the mortite as I was scratching my head on why it had that on some of the drivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidR Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 Great score ! Those cabinets look like they are in very nice condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tysontom Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 2 hours ago, lakecat said: Thanks so much Tom for your generous advice and knowledge. I still can't believe I got this beautiful rare pair. The seller had these on CL for over a week before I responded. I emailed him and asked about them....and never heard back so assumed they were sold quickly. A week later, I get an email from him saying he saw my email in his junk folder and said he still had them. Just seemed to be serendipity. I am keeping these grills for the history and may just order completed grills with lambswool from Larry at AR or do my own but lots of work. I have another Tonegen woofer here that I just refoamed so it may join the other. I hate that huge dustcap and even if I remove it and put on the right dustcap, it will still show on cone. 22 Hz is plenty low enough for me....:) I get my foams from Larry..so good to go. Thanks so much for the explanation on the mortite as I was scratching my head on why it had that on some of the drivers. You definitely have a fine pair of AR-LSTs, and you can do a few things to improve them even more. I think your idea to use the Tonegen woofer for the second one is fine, since the big ugly dust cap will not come off without tearing the cone or leaving a mark; it's a done deal, unfortunately. On the other hand, the sonic differences between the Tonegen and the original woofer is very small, and it is not audible unless you compare the two, side-by-side, playing organ music or something, so using that Tonegen is probably the way to go. There are many ways to refinish or update the wood finish, but if you follow AR's instructions (1965 version attached) for refinishing oiled-walnut veneer, you will be very pleased with the results. There are a lot of alternate ways of refinishing the veneer, but you will get better results if you follow the original recommendations. Use 400-600 grit sandpaper and follow the instructions accordingly. The oil will take care of many small scratches and marks. You can substitute Watco Satin Oil for boiled linseed oil, but the old way works as well as any: AR_Memo_Applying-Furniture-Finishes_Dec1965.pdf Good luck! --Tom Tyson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakecat Posted October 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2016 HI Tom..and thanks. I will certainly do these the right way even though I haven't worked with BLO and hate the thought of reapplying every six months. Always a first! What year does this serial number put these AR's at? Is 1973 the right area? Does that finish look glossy to you?..or was that method done with before these came out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tysontom Posted October 21, 2016 Report Share Posted October 21, 2016 3 hours ago, lakecat said: HI Tom..and thanks. I will certainly do these the right way even though I haven't worked with BLO and hate the thought of reapplying every six months. Always a first! What year does this serial number put these AR's at? Is 1973 the right area? Does that finish look glossy to you?..or was that method done with before these came out? Serial Number 00586, if I read your number correctly, was made in November 1972, based on 5-year warranty information. Acoustic Research made approximately 75 to 100 AR-LSTs each month during this period, sometimes slightly more. I'm unsure of the total number of LSTs made, but the speaker was still available until around 1975. The finish looks about right from what I can tell, but it shouldn't be glossy, just a satin gloss. I don't think you need to re-oil the cabinets every six months unless they tend to dry out. Usually an application every year or so will do it, and you can look at the wood to determine what is needed. For your LSTs as they are now, You may not need to do anything other than a light sanding (use 600 grit, always sanding lightly in the direction of the grain only) a single application of linseed oil or Watco, and that might do it. You can also use steel wool, but a very fine sandpaper is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VintageMan Posted October 21, 2016 Report Share Posted October 21, 2016 Congrats on this great find! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidDru Posted October 21, 2016 Report Share Posted October 21, 2016 The BLO just doesn't have the drier in it that the other more current formula product options have. It's easy but just a little slower and not as easy in cold or wet climates where it can get sticky. timing of the wipe on wipe off is crucial so keep an eye on it until you get a feel for how fast you need to be on it. The issue many times is that it has been 4 or 5 decades since these were born so who knows what the previous owners had applied over the BLO over the years. Sometimes it is best to do the sandpaper with some mineral spirits first to get some of the build-up off. most of the time when I do this it amazes me just how much grime and gunk comes off to reveal more of the wood grain and glow/color. Not difficult work. BLO is smelly so be aware of that. Combustable too Slower than the newer products although the current available BLO is not like the old BLO. One coat every day or so depending on temp etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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