KLH Model Six's w/ a Fisher 400

[samberger0357]

There's been a fair amount of chit chat over on the AR forum of late, mostly started by me, on the merits that a smaller powered vintage tube amp brings to the table when played through a pair of AR3's(if some of you KLH fans have been over there you probably know what I'm referring to).  While common knowledge, and I suppose sense, indicates that 3's really need to be used with super watt amps so in order to hear everything that they are capable of(and a theory that I mostly agree with) I recently picked up a very clean, restored 400 and since the 3's are my main speakers started using it with them. I have a fairly small listening space, and play mostly acoustic based jazz at fairly reasonable levels. So I was quite surprised that the 400, all 28 watts of it, played nice and made some very beautiful sounds through the 3's. And when I brought this up, I got several mostly positive comments from folks who had similar experiences using smaller watt tube amps with their 3's on occasion, bring them in to change up from the normal 200+ watt amps that are in normal use. There has been one dissenter to this theory, but mostly as I said the reactions have been positive.

So today I decided finally to swap in a pair of early(serial numbers in the high teens) Six's that I own to pair up with the 400. Well, wow. Like a very big WOW. As great as the 3's are with the 400, the Six's were obviously made to use with the 400, or any other similar vintage, similar powered tube amp. The sound is so much more powerful and big. Yes, I know the Six's are and easier load to drive, and more efficient, but the tandem pairing is just incredible, the sound so intense and realistic. Amazing. 

I know I'm preaching to the choir, but who else am I going to relay my pleasures too about this stuff? I haven't done a search, but would enjoy hearing from others who are using Six's with vintage tube gear, and how that's going for you. 

Ok, thanks for letting me rave on a bit. 

[Sonnar]

Hello samberger, I have the opportunity to buy these beautiful KLH Six ( with a KLH receiver ) . My idea is to play it with my Knight or Eico low wattage tube amps. Differences in sound between AR 3 and KLH Six with Fisher 400 ? Thank You , Adriano 

[Sonnar]

Hello samberger, I have the opportunity to buy these beautiful KLH Six ( with a KLH receiver ) . My idea is to play it with my Knight or Eico low wattage tube amps. Differences in sound between AR 3 and KLH Six with Fisher 400 ? Thank You , Adriano 

[samberger0357]

Adriano check to see what vintage they are. If they earlier, they may be completely sealed making them very difficult to get into and recap, which probably will be necessary. Later versions are easy to get into through the woofer. So check that out first. 

As far as sound, like I indicated the Six's are much easier to drive than the 3's, and 15- 50 watts, particularly from a quality vintage tube amp like the 400, or your Knight or Eico, will make them sparkle, particularly with acoustic jazz, folk, etc. Where the 3's play best with bigger solid state, the Six's were made for tubes. I think you'll love them. 

[Sonnar]

Thank You, it seems a later model to me, look at the screws on the woofer and tweeter , and loudspeakers seems unmolested and in nice conditions. I 'm spending my saturday afternoon restoring an AR 2 pair in poor aestethic conditions , while I 'm listening to a surprisingly nice sounding pair of Utah speakers with Knight and Eico. Cheers, Adriano

[samberger0357]

Yes those are the later versions. Very easy to refresh with new caps, and they do look great. Should sound great with any of your beautiful  tube gear. 

Ciao!

[frankmarsi]

A blatant example of the waffling:  

 

 

“"While common knowledge, and I suppose sense, indicates that 3's really need to be used with super watt amps so in order to hear everything that they are capable of(and a theory that I mostly agree with)””

 

 

Holy-moly, you weren't admitting to such things on 'the other' site. 

Oh yeah, who is that dissenter?

 

""fans have been over there you probably know what I'm referring to"" 

[samberger0357]

Wrong. I absolutely agreed that using larger watt amps is a good thing. I simply also stated that you can get good results using smaller watt amps too. Re read the comments Frank. 

[frankmarsi]

No, one can absolutely not get good results, adequate at best, maybe. Operating in a small space may necessitate headphone usage I would imagine?

I have a big car, and it won't fit in my garage so, it stays outside.

The definition of 'good' as compared to what and in who's mind, and is that mind qualified to make such blatant statements?

[samberger0357]

Frank we've been through this. If your opinion(which is what it is) differs from mine(and others) as to what's good and what's not, that fine. I disagree with you, and since we've already debated this on the other forum, why not leave it at that?

[frankmarsi]

Inferring that there's a 'dissenter' in our midst is laughably such an irony, it's incomprehensible so, no laughter comes out but, saying it while in the KLH site is even more hysterical. I caught that earlier, though it magically disappeared.

I did mention knitting once, I know I did. But, I never, e-v-e-r mention much less think or imply that ""The sound is so much more powerful and big."" about using a tiny amplifier. As I've had for a number of short years used a 17.5 wattX2 tube amp. and yes, I can admit that certain small tubes amps. can 'emit' a small taste of mystical-ness but it was a stretch akin to a fleeting fantasy, and nothing like what a huge power house amplifier can bring into the room and mind while stimulating the soul. I as many have learned that it's basic electricity and acoustic fundamentals so there's no irony 'bout dat, my brutha. 

I'm only speaking from experience, be nice now, you mustn't penalize me for such first hand knowledge of the greatness that's been accumulated over the decades of countless listening and learning situations.

 And please, don't hate me because I'm beautiful.

O.K.,,, O.K. I'll stand corrected, my system's sound is more beautiful. 

All-right enough banter, as my tables, as in T.T, and Lyra's are awaiting my presence.

Be well, plan for a better day.

As a wise old man once said, if you can't beat them then, join them. I've always taken that as good advise.

FM

 

[samberger0357]

Wow. You go get them cowboy. 

[DavidDru]

I will eventually do similar testing.  Later today I am going to be working on that Fisher TA-600 I got to see if it fires up okay.  If it does I will be trying all sorts of speakers with it. KLH, Wharfedale, Fisher etc  I guess I can see what it does with my AR3's as well.

[samberger0357]

Look forward to hearing about your results. 

[LouB]

My six's (early screw in woofs ) and my 17's ( later brown fabric ) sound great with my 500B.

Both were recapped.

The six's were recently re-doped with the wonder fluid from Vintage AR. Great stuff, BTW.

The 17's were re-doped with Shoe Goo, now that I have the other stuff I won't be using that anymore.

Currently, the six's are in the living room, driven by a completely rebuilt 1966 Scott 388.

They sound fab with the Scott, and have that wonderful classic look, too!

 

Lou

[samberger0357]

I bet they sound great with the 500B, and the 388.  Had a 500B until I sold it earlier this year, then missed a Fisher receiver so much that I picked up the 400.  Never have owned a Scott, will have to change that someday. 

[GD70]

My 1963 Sixs are dedicated to my Scott LK-72. Extremely good sounding system, like they were designed to be together!

I restored the Scott a couple years ago replacing most of the caps and selenium rectifier and mostly new or NOS tubes.

The Sixs were also completely restored with a recap, reveneer, resealed woofers. 

The Scott hooked up to the AR3's was ok, the Sixs far better. The 3's really sounded lifeless, which I was surprised and  disappointed when I listened to this setup for the first time. My 3's are fairly early, circa 1960, with oil caps. When hooked up to my larger SS amps, they are a whole different speaker.

Glenn

[ra.ra]

Hey Glenn. When you connected the AR-3's to the Scott amp, am just curious if you were certain to make sure that the 4 ohm taps on the amp were used? (Pic attached shows 8 ohm taps connected.)

[samberger0357]

That's a really good point RA. When I first connected my 400 to them, I forgot. Didn't sound right. Took a look and sure enough forgot. Made quite the significant difference in my set up. 

[DavidDru]

I gotta imagine that most of the KLH speakers would sound great with these tube pieces being mentioned, until you got to the Model 5.  I have my Fives in the master bedromm hooked up to a Pioneer SX-737 and it sounds very nice.  They still go to a different level on the larger power system.

Remember, KLH also sold a few different models of stereo's most of which were modestly powered, paired with their speakers.

My ST70 didn't do my AR3's justice on any of the taps.

[samberger0357]

Yup the 5's were built to compete with the 3a's, so the more power the better. 

And again, I think it just depends on what one wants, or expects, from their amp/speaker combination. I'm once again listening to my 400 teamed up with my AR3's, and for me the combo sounds splendid. Different for sure then the Model Six's(and Dynaco A35's too), but still there's plenty to like(for me) with this combo.  

 

 

[LouB]

The main reasons that the Model Six's in the living room were paired with the Scott 388 were pragmatic;

(1) The Fisher 500B which had been in place often got left on, idling away for quite some time before being noticed usually at night when the softly glowing dial face would be obvious. A candidate with the vintage look was needed which wouldn't be roasting away US made 7591A's without a signal, Solid state to the rescue.

(2) I have had numerous Scott tube amplifiers and receivers, but recently have developed an affinity for their early S.S. receivers.

The 388 is stylistically quite similar to the 340B (got an unrestored one of those in the receiver hospital queue too) 

I had recently finished a complete top to bottom restoration on the 388 and so there it resides. If it gets left on it's not a space heater and it doesn't draw much quiescent current.

[samberger0357]

I've recently been having trouble with one of my AR3s, and will not go into detail here, other then to say it's been frustrating, and it's being addressed. While being addressed, I've been able to slip my Model Six's back into rotation, but now with my latest addition, a McIntosh 4100 receiver. This has been a very nice pairing. The Mac has a very low damping factor, making it somewhat (sorry for using this silly term again, but I"m lazy this morning) "tube like" in it's presentation. The Six's like it very much. Obviously the Six's present a much easier load then the 3's do, and the Mac seems to like that. 

I usually prefer tube amps, like my 400, with the Six's, but there is solid state gear that I've used successfully with them. Vintage Sony receivers like the 6060, 6045 and 6055 sound great with them, as do the Harman Kardon 430 and 730 receivers. I can now add the 4100 to the pile. Makes me miss my 3's just a little less. 

[GD70]

On 10/13/2016 at 10:54 AM, ra.ra said:

Hey Glenn. When you connected the AR-3's to the Scott amp, am just curious if you were certain to make sure that the 4 ohm taps on the amp were used? (Pic attached shows 8 ohm taps connected.)

Hi Robert,

I think I had the 4 ohm taps connected, but now that you mention it, I'd have to check and try it again. That being said, the ADS 910's which are 4 ohm, sounded great with the Scott. The only complaint was @ 35 wpc, it ran out of steam pretty quickly with them.

[GD70]

On 10/13/2016 at 10:54 AM, ra.ra said:

Hey Glenn. When you connected the AR-3's to the Scott amp, am just curious if you were certain to make sure that the 4 ohm taps on the amp were used? (Pic attached shows 8 ohm taps connected.)

Hi Robert,

I think I had the 4 ohm taps connected, but now that you mention it, I'd have to check and try it again. That being said, the ADS 910's which are 4 ohm, sounded great with the Scott. The only complaint was @ 35 wpc, it ran out of steam pretty quickly with them.

I did a quick image search of my Scott, and it doesn't have the external wires for selecting the ohm taps, you simply connect the speaker wires to the 4 , 6, 8, 16 ohm connections and ground.