What's the lowest amount of watts you have used with our AR3/3A's?

[frankmarsi]

54 minutes ago, onplane said:

Hi, Frank!

This is probably the wrong thread, but when you say the AR tweeter is a "wimp", what does that mean?  Are you saying that they are fragile and will self destruct easily?  Or are you saying you can't get the SPL out of them that you want?

Or did you mean something else?

My concern with them is efficiency!  That is, they were just too far behind the mid and woofer in sound output. Now my solution was to simply give them more voltage and Roy agreed that it might work.  Roy also cautioned that my solution might just end my tweeters' life.  Well, that was some 8 years ago and the tweeters are working just fine.

We also must remember that my 3a's are in my den, a very small room, and I never exceed 2 watts to the woofer according to the power LEDs on the amp.

Now, I also have a set of AR TSW610's (Telednye era) in the family room and their titanium domes are significantly more efficient than the 3a tweeters and are capable of putting out significantly more SPL.

 

Regards,

Jerry

Mis-Posted, sorry. Response entered below.

FM

[onplane]

31 minutes ago, frankmarsi said:

Adding more voltage is saying what. Turn up the volume and of course you'll be allowing more voltage to enter their voice-coils.

Their voice coil's thickness of wire is not in anyway appropriate for a higher voltage. That is only one aspect, the other of course was determined by RoyC in his thorough testings and findings. One of which was the little piece of foam-rubber placed beneath the game to 'damp' them a bit. That foam much like a foam surround had disintegrated maybe faster than my check book did these last two years paying NJ state taxes.

My solution to giving the tweeters more voltage is to:

1  bi-amp so that an amp powers ONLY the mids and tweeters

2  I added a 2 ohm padding resistor in series with the mid driver to knock it down from both the woofer and tweeter

3  removed completely the tweeter pot (the combination of these two steps should put the tweeter 2 to 3 db higher than the mid than in the original design)

4  so when I bring the padded mid driver's voltage up to match the woofer, this leaves the tweeter UP 2 to 3 db

Further, with tone controls you can push the tweeters even further.  All of this in an attempt to "flatten" this curve:

 

[frankmarsi]

On 9/30/2016 at 4:30 PM, onplane said:

Hi, Frank!

This is probably the wrong thread, but when you say the AR tweeter is a "wimp", what does that mean?  Are you saying that they are fragile and will self destruct easily?  Or are you saying you can't get the SPL out of them that you want?

Or did you mean something else?

My concern with them is efficiency!  That is, they were just too far behind the mid and woofer in sound output. Now my solution was to simply give them more voltage and Roy agreed that it might work.  Roy also cautioned that my solution might just end my tweeters' life.  Well, that was some 8 years ago and the tweeters are working just fine.

We also must remember that my 3a's are in my den, a very small room, and I never exceed 2 watts to the woofer according to the power LEDs on the amp.

Now, I also have a set of AR TSW610's (Telednye era) in the family room and their titanium domes are significantly more efficient than the 3a tweeters and are capable of putting out significantly more SPL.

 

Regards,

Jerry

Hi Jerry, my answer however non-qualified it may be is: yes, yes and yes.

Those tweeters have wonderful dispersion characteristics but, suffer from very poor power 

handling ability. All these years later I can’t for the life of me understand what AR was thinking.

 

“RoyC” was also the first insightful person to enlighten us all about their construction.

Underneath that cute the little hard paper dome sits a small piece of foam rubber which was probably disintegrated at the same time you replaced your first or second set of woofer foam surrounds. That little piece of foam was used as a form of damping for the dome. As time passed the foam turned to dust, thus changing the tweeters response. RoyC's suggestion I would with out a doubt heed, and also pushing those little buggers is not even a second thought, they're too fragile.

 

Beyond that, I’m sure you’ve noticed, their extremely thin wire gauge leading to the voice-coil which is of course in the same thickness. I don’t think that thin wire is capable of handling much is the form of a higher voltage, heat also being a factor.

 

Case in point from 1972 to around 1977, I had communicated with AR and they were kind enough to send me at least 7 tweeters because of blown voice-coils. I was using a Dynaco ST-120 amp and although I could understand that horrible amp clipping often enough, it was more likely caused by the thin wire used for that tweeter.

In 1973 they asked me to send both speakers back to them for an inspection. When they were returned they included the same type of tweeters. The mids and woofers were always retained because they are able to sustain higher power, naturally.

 

I must stress that we are speaking about the tweeters from the original series because the newer tweeters from the AR-11 and 10  era were heartier and could sustain more power input and not burn out as quickly.

I can speak from first hand experience because in 1990 I ordered two tweeters directly from AR and installed them in one AR-LST , they’ve been in that speaker since and I do pump a lot of power into my speakers and they have lasted. I have been stocking up on used ones from that era in hopes that one day I will have all AR tweeters in my four LST’s. However, until I acquire the full set of 16 tweeters, I will continue using my Micro-Statics and not worry.

FM

P.S. I'd be curious to know what volume levels you listen to.

I made an all important purchase a few years ago of a inexpensive SPL meter. I did so primarily to monitor the SPL's for my ear's safety in addition to see how crazy I could get with pushing so much power. And although I never brought my speakers to the level of obvious distortion, I can gleefully state that the LST is one hell of a sponge for power absorption. The more you feed them, the more they almost ask for.

 

P.S. as a side note: 

 

 http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/ar3a-disappointment.257270/

[Sonnar]

Frank, I don 't want to use 1500 watts on my precious AR 3 , surely not more than 100 peak . But I 'm curious . The cheap QSC I have is the best sounding power amp I 've ever had in my life . Pros told me about the German-made Camco Vortex 6 , they say it 's the high end of professional amps . A bit expensive , but 2300 watts per channel on 4 ohms and 3300 on 2 ohms ! Surely difficult to reach clipping , and I 'm very curious about its sonic quality . 

[frankmarsi]

Ciao, sonnar,come sta?

These 'new' amps and according to my limited knowledge may offer more efficient and easier operation but, may be somewhat 'hissy' compared to the 'normal' use intended for such use. Many have been designed for commercial and large 'PA' use.

My own PL amps and pre-amps are a bit 'hissy' but, make up for it in many other glorious ways.

 'A' or 'A/B' design of amps are and have been the accepted 'norm' for 'Hi-Fi' use throughout all these years of amp design and were some of the earliest designs. And all of those out there who may be-

perfectionists, class 'A' has always seemed to be their choice. Cost is up there as this design involves different parameters.

They do tend to run hotter than a normal 'A/B' design of amp and even offer a higher degree of power for a low wattage rating but, may actually prove to be more powerful than their wattage ratings indicate.

If I were you, I'd try to learn as much about these designs as possible before I would decide. Keep in mind that their costs are higher than a normal class 'A/B' amp.

Case in point, the early "Crown" amps were basically designed as strong, brutish amps that in the early 'Golden-Era' were used for heavy commercial usage and not necessarily used for 'Hi-Fi' although at that time were some of the highest power ones available and many common-folks/stereo buffs bought them because at the time, there were no others that compared. In 1970-72 Phase Linear adopted many of the Crown and Marantz designs along with many of Bob Carver's own designs and made it possible for at the time young men like myself to purchase and the profitability on a bigger scale was his reward. His new designs are considers 'phenoms" And although the Crown amps were pretty much rock-solid, they lacked much power compared to the first iteration of PL-700 Phase Linear amps. With in the same era "BGW" and a few other names followed suit, like "S.A.E" and few others were the accepted entries in that wonderful era that I myself found myself in and I struggled to decide which one I was going to buy with my limited funds.

This BS about Phase Linear being 'sub-par' was brought about because these amps although not intend for PA use were thrust into that world because of their high power ratings. Many a 'roadie' and sound reinforcement firms like "Clair Bros." and a couple of others modified Phase Linear amps to eventually become the standards of large venue usage. Unfortunately, the abusive, unknowledgeable and incorrect usage by the 'un-washed' masses forcible garnered the bad reputations of these amps by 'over-fusing' and other sorted abuse unfortunately brought the names of many of these great amps down and scared them even into the present.

Here's a starting point; http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/amplifier-classes

Keep in mind that the other and newer designs, aka last 35 years or more were produced for specific purposes and although designs have been improved inevitably, with time. Some draw backs may still exist. And/or not be the best one can do for hi-fi/ personal, serious listening.

I'd consult on this with those of which have more qualified information than I.  And some of us know who they are!

P.S. Tonite, it's been 7 hours of strong LST usage, and I've got to admit they sound much better tan two AR-9's, period!

Coupled with two rebuilt Phase Linear PL-700'sMk.II by Ed Blackwood that is. Of course!

Keep me posted of your fact finding.

FM

[onplane]

7 hours ago, frankmarsi said:

Hi Jerry, my answer however non-qualified it may be is: yes, yes and yes.

Those tweeters have wonderful dispersion characteristics but, suffer from very poor power 

handling ability. All these years later I can’t for the life of me understand what AR was thinking.

 

“RoyC” was also the first insightful person to enlighten us all about their construction.

Underneath that cute the little hard paper dome sits a small piece of foam rubber which was probably disintegrated at the same time you replaced your first or second set of woofer foam surrounds. That little piece of foam was used as a form of damping for the dome. As time passed the foam turned to dust, thus changing the tweeters response. RoyC's suggestion I would with out a doubt heed, and also pushing those little buggers is not even a second thought, they're too fragile.

 

Beyond that, I’m sure you’ve noticed, their extremely thin wire gauge leading to the voice-coil which is of course in the same thickness. I don’t think that thin wire is capable of handling much is the form of a higher voltage, heat also being a factor.

 

Case in point from 1972 to around 1977, I had communicated with AR and they were kind enough to send me at least 7 tweeters because of blown voice-coils. I was using a Dynaco ST-120 amp and although I could understand that horrible amp clipping often enough, it was more likely caused by the thin wire used for that tweeter.

In 1973 they asked me to send both speakers back to them for an inspection. When they were returned they included the same type of tweeters. The mids and woofers were always retained because they are able to sustain higher power, naturally.

 

I must stress that we are speaking about the tweeters from the original series because the newer tweeters from the AR-11 and 10  ear were heartier and could sustain more power input and not burn out as quickly.

I can speak from hand hand experience because in 1990 I ordered two direct from AR and installed them in one AR-LST , they’ve been in that speaker since and I do pump a lot of power into my speakers and they have lasted. I have been stocking up on used ones from that era in hopes that one day I will have all AR tweeters in my four LST’s. However, until I acquire the full set of 16 tweeters, I will continue using my Micro-Statics and not worry.

FM

P.S. I'd curious to know what volume levels you listen to.

I made an all important purchase a few years ago of a inexpensive SPL meter. I did so primarily to monitor the SPL's for my ear's safety in addition to see I crazy I could get with pushing so much power. And although I never brought my speakers to the level of obvious distortion, I can gleefully state that the LST is one hell of a sponge for power absorption. The more you feed them, the more they almost asks for.

 

 

Hi, Frank!

Good comments, as always.  Yes, Roy knows these things inside and out.  My sense is no one knows the ins and outs of these tweeters like Roy.

Roy did caution me 8 years ago about the danger of pushing the tweeters too hard.  My response then was, "Well if they die... they die!  Then I'll deal with it. In the meantime, I no longer am satisfied with the dull sounding 3a's.  I'm going to push them and see what happens."

Again that was 8 years ago and they have worked just fine ever since.  

Now, it sounds somewhat "macho" to say I'm going to push those things. The truth is a little different.  My den where I play the 3a's is small and right now I'm listening with the power leds on the woofer amp peaking occasionally at 1 watt.  I'm guessing this would be somewhere in the range of ... maybe 85db?? Of course, I could turn the volume knobs up, but that would be beyond my comfort level.

So, I then looked at my scope to see what kind of voltage was going to the mids/tweeters.  My surprise was there were occasional peaks (rim shots, cymbals, etc) at 1.5 volts!  Vast majority of the time the signal was under .5 volt.  Consequently, if we assumed this total voltage is going to the tweeters (and that can't be right because that cap in series will knock down some), we are talking about average current of 125 milliamps with peaks at  375 mills.  

Oh Yeah, I'm really pushing the hell out of these things.  In short, this is NOTHING!  Even at those momentary peaks we'd be talking about 0.3 watts and the peaks are so few and far between that I can't imagine any heat being "built up".  The more normal idle state would be around  0.03 watts!

I'm busy tomorrow, so on Sunday I'll try to measure the actual voltage across the tweeters.  (The numbers I've quoted are all at the output of the mid/tweeter amp so they represent an "upper limit".)

In summary, the reason my tweeters are still working is because so very little power is being dissipated in them.

Clearly folks with large rooms may have a totally different experience. I recently experienced an open mid driver on my TSW's, but they are in a room three times the size of my den and I push them harder (2 and 3 watt peaks). My sense is there is a correlation between longevity and power dissipation.

Hope this helps...

Regards,

Jerry

[Sonnar]

9 hours ago, frankmarsi said:

Ciao, sonnar,come sta?

These 'new' amps and according to my limited knowledge may offer more efficient and easier operation but, may be somewhat 'hissy' compared to the 'normal' use intended for such use. Many have been designed for commercial and large 'PA' use.

My own PL amps and pre-amps are a bit 'hissy' but, make up for it in many other glorious ways.

 'A' or 'A/B' design of amps are and have been the accepted 'norm' for 'Hi-Fi' use throughout all these years of amp design and were some of the earliest designs. And all of those out there who may be-

perfectionists, class 'A' has always seemed to be their choice. Cost is up there as this design involves different parameters.

They do tend to run hotter than a normal 'A/B' design of amp and even offer a higher degree of power for a low wattage rating but, may actually prove to be more powerful than their wattage ratings indicate.

If I were you, I'd try to learn as much about these designs as possible before I would decide. Keep in mind that their costs are higher than a normal class 'A/B' amp.

Case in point, the early "Crown" amps were basically designed as strong, brutish amps that in the early 'Golden-Era' were used for heavy commercial usage and not necessarily used for 'Hi-Fi' although at that time were some of the highest power ones available and many common-folks/stereo buffs bought them because at the time, there were no others that compared. In 1970-72 Phase Linear adopted many of the Crown and Marantz designs along with many of Bob Carver's own designs and made it possible for at the time young men like myself to purchase and the profitability on a bigger scale was his reward. His new designs are considers 'phenoms" And although the Crown amps were pretty much rock-solid, they lacked much power compared to the first iteration of PL-700 Phase Linear amps. With in the same era "BGW" and a few other names followed suit, like "S.A.E" and few others were the accepted entries in that wonderful era that I myself found myself in and I struggled to decide which one I was going to buy with my limited funds.

This BS about Phase Linear being 'sub-par' was brought about because these amps although not intend for PA use were thrust into that world because of their high power ratings. Many a 'roadie' and sound reinforcement firms like "Clair Bros." and a couple of others modified Phase Linear amps to eventually become the standards of large venue usage. Unfortunately, the abusive, unknowledgeable and incorrect usage by the 'un-washed' masses forcible garnered the bad reputations of these amps by 'over-fusing' and other sorted abuse unfortunately brought the names of many of these great amps down and scared them even into the present.

Here's a starting point; http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/amplifier-classes

Keep in mind that the other and newer designs, aka last 35 years or more were produced for specific purposes and although designs have been improved inevitably, with time. Some draw backs may still exist. And/or not be the best one can do for hi-fi/ personal, serious listening.

I'd consult on this with those of which have more qualified information than I.  And some of us know who they are!

P.S. Tonite, it's been 7 hours of strong LST usage, and I've got to admit they sound much better tan two AR-9's, period!

Coupled with two rebuilt Phase Linear PL-700'sMk.II by Ed Blackwood that is. Of course!

Keep me posted of your fact finding.

FM

Hi Frank, my QSC shown here is an AB pro designed for cinema and PA installed sound , but it 's the smoothest SS amp I 've ever heard , but with a terrific dynamic and incredible cleanliness and transparency. Tom Tyson use one of this modern super high power amps , and I agree totally with him, modern designs and absolute stability makes the difference. Not hissy, not harsh but very fine and sweet also when I use it to drive vintage Altec and JBL drivers/ horns . Ciao , Adriano 

[owlsplace]

21 hours ago, frankmarsi said:

But, fear not said King Leonidas to Xerxes.

 

I am the one with the big amplifiers and big speakers enjoying myself all of the time, while some here can only imagine the heights to which I soar to!

 

Frank,

I'm having trouble visualizing this -- three stacked LST's w/o tweeters and three Microstatic tweeters and is that one PL700 amp per set

Just a reminder: clipping can occur at any stage of amplification, including the preamp which is a good reason to use a passive preamp.

Roger

[frankmarsi]

On 10/1/2016 at 11:36 AM, owlsplace said:

Frank,

I'm having trouble visualizing this -- three stacked LST's w/o tweeters and three Microstatic tweeters and is that one PL700 amp per set

Just a reminder: clipping can occur at any stage of amplification, including the preamp which is a good reason to use a passive preamp.

Roger

I'm thinking either a rattler got you or, that cute little owl may have taken a chunk out of you?

I use two LST's per side with one Micro-Static on top. There are two PL-700 II's powering each stereo set of speakers.

My pre-amp has double outputs for use with double amps but only as a stereo pair.

Easy peasy.

A clipping pre-amp would either have something wrong with it or is being pushed at a high level by a input over-loading it.

Passive pre-amps are very limited and can not serve my purposes.

 

 

[owlsplace]

5 hours ago, frankmarsi said:

Easy peasy.

Okay, I'm getting the picture -- the KISS principle. Though you may want to set up a pressurized listening room and maintain the electronics at a constant 70 degress F to eliminate the possibility of dust contamination and thermal runaway ...

Just kidding, but I'm assuming that your LST tweeters were all fried a long time ago and that is why you added the Microstatics ... No?

Okay, I'm sending a Magneplanar salesman over to your house.

The owl lives outside by the way -- one of those 'live free, or die' types.

Roger

[frankmarsi]

On 10/1/2016 at 5:30 PM, owlsplace said:

Okay, I'm getting the picture -- the KISS principle. Though you may want to set up a pressurized listening room and maintain the electronics at a constant 70 degress F to eliminate the possibility of dust contamination and thermal runaway ...

Just kidding, but I'm assuming that your LST tweeters were all fried a long time ago and that is why you added the Microstatics ... No?

Okay, I'm sending a Magneplanar salesman over to your house.

The owl lives outside by the way -- one of those 'live free, or die' types.

Roger

10-3-16

Roger,

Magnepan speakers to me have a wonderful midrange and high-end, plus an over all good spread of sound but, their bass is not up to par with the rest of the speaker. I’ve been told this by an owner and have read many online reviews, plus, I’ve had a one time demonstration. 

So, because their bass is deficient, owning these would necessitate buying and finding room for a ‘sub-woofer’ which is an added inconvenience and additional expense.

A ‘Rel’ or other quality subwoofer are oddly very expensive so, who needs that absurdity?

 

If you would like to stare at two big full size, door like speakers sitting in the middle of your living room and always dealing with that imposing site and inconvenience I guess they’d be all right for you but, not me.

 

Then there’s the necessary rebuild they apparently require as their construction methods indicate that the adhesives that hold the wires in place tend to dry out with in a few years. It’s a bigger job than simply replacing a foam surround on an AR 3a woofer.

 

So, concerning owning other speakers, thanks, but, no thanks as I’m more than secure and forever will be happy with my stacked (four) AR-LST’s.

And now that I have a third PL-700II and an extra pair of LST’s sitting around, I may do the near impossible/unbelievably/wonderful  move and stack that third pair on top of the other four and just blow my brains out, time will tell?

 

So, you could have those inconvenient ‘door-like’ looking speakers or be as happy as I am the way I’m situated with large and old AR's. Actually, I’m very content with four AR 12 inch woofers pumping away!  Sub-woofers, not necessary!

 

 If I were to ever think of another speaker, I would buy an old pair of 1990’s big model “Apogee” speakers but, even those are pretty rare these days, so scratch that.

 

P.S. and yes whenever I’m joyfully listening to my set-up at a 'realistic volume levels' which is usually as it is, the room is actually pressurized to a noticeable degree. So much so, that I’ve had guests get up after an extended listening session and pretty much feel ‘ spent’, emotionally, aurally, and pleasurably while being overly musically satisfied to boot!

A number of them have come over repeatedly and expressly asking for more.

 

And also correct is the fact that my double stereo amps are maintained at a comfortable operating temperature because each amp is cooled by a variable speed four inch “Comair” ‘Whisper’ fan.

FM

[DavidDru]

Wonderful stuff guys.  Good read.

Frank, I use a PL400 as my main amp.  It is a White Oak upgrade version which is probably a lot different than the originals but it is very very impressive.  I will eventually get a 2nd.  So quiet, cool and powerful at any volume.

Oddly enough I just picked up a pristine Fisher TA-600 and am looking forward to hearing what it can do with my 3's.  Wont bother with the 9's.

I've tried using my Dynaco ST70 but I didn't like what I got.

[samberger0357]

Wow that Fisher is beautiful! Congratulations. It's 20wpc, right? I'll be interested in how you like it with your 3's, too. I'm going back and forth between my 400, and my Crown XLS1000. They both bring completely different flavors to the table. Certainly for a taste of everything the 3's have to offer, the XLS1000 wins hands down. But the 400 brings some soul, some personality, some sweetness that is  unrivaled by any other amp I own. So I'm doing a lot of hooking, unhooking these days. 

[DavidDru]

Yes Sb, I got lucky getting it.  it is flawless cosmetically.  It was a console pull thus the "Premier" designation rather than the "600" on the faceplate.  Otherwise the exact same.  Still need to do all the first step tube testing(all originals) and variac start-up etc.  Need to find the time.

Your conflict between the two options really suggests using the Fisher with the Crown in a biamp set-up if possible.  Best of both worlds.  (Although my WOPL may be just about that in one package)

[samberger0357]

Yeah I've given some thought to biamping, but frankly I don't want to bother with it. Too much trouble, at least for me. I'm ok switching out and in when I want. Only takes a few minutes. I also have a nice pair of KLH Model Six's that I can just as easily  swap in every so often to use with the 400. So lots of options. Today listening to the Crown with an Artemis LA-1 tube preamp has provided a lot of enjoyment. There is no doubt that having that kind of power does bring out aspects of the 3's that the 400 is not capable of. But the 400 certainly brings other things that none of my SS amps can. 

But I will look forward to how your Fisher does with the 3's. 

 

[Sonnar]

My Knight KA-25 10 wpc tubes integrated amp drivin' AR 3. Very pleasant.

IMG_4982.MOV

[der]

That's very nice Sonnar.  I owned a similar amp years ago. I believe mine was an Eico.  It looked very similar. Wish I still had it.

der

[samberger0357]

 

6 hours ago, Sonnar said:

My Knight KA-25 10 wpc tubes integrated amp drivin' AR 3. Very pleasant.

IMG_4982.MOV

Wow...that kinda throws the whole huge power needed for the 3's argument right out of the window. Very nice indeed. 

[der]

3 minutes ago, samberger0357 said:

 

Wow...that kinda throws the whole huge power needed for the 3's argument right out of the window. Very nice indeed. 

Yes, when I first got my 3a's I drove them with small wattage VM solid state amp.  I was a poor college student at the time and it took me some time to save up the money for a better amp. 

der

[samberger0357]

9 minutes ago, der said:

Yes, when I first got my 3a's I drove them with small wattage VM solid state amp.  I was a poor college student at the time and it took me some time to save up the money for a better amp. 

der

I love hearing tales like this because I do believe that the 3/3a's are more flexible regarding power requirements then is commonly noted. Not to say that they don't sound great with the high current, high watt power available so readily these days, but they can also do quite well with much less. Just depends on the specific situation. 

[Sonnar]

1 hour ago, der said:

That's very nice Sonnar.  I owned a similar amp years ago. I believe mine was an Eico.  It looked very similar. Wish I still had it.

der

 

 

1 hour ago, samberger0357 said:

 

Wow...that kinda throws the whole huge power needed for the 3's argument right out of the window. Very nice indeed. 

der, I have an Eico ST 40 , 20 wpc , it drives AR 3 and 3a easily in medium/small sized rooms, at normal listening levels. Sam, I played an early recording ( Dean Martin, Let it snow ) without particular dynamic or transients, and so are many of my '50s and '60s jazz LP and CD , but with some modern recordings ( Paul Simon , Hearts and Bones , Sony digital ) it's very easy to use 200 watts per channel peak with AR 3/3a . 

[frankmarsi]

 

""Wow...that kinda throws the whole huge power needed for the 3's argument right out of the window. Very nice indeed."" 

OMG, this is getting to be a very misguided group here!

Not to mention how much pleasure is being missed.

It's kind of like dry-humping isn't it?

The 'real-thing' is so much better!

This constant opining of doing the incorrect thing is so off-base about correct speaker placement and powering that "Eddie V." must be

rolling in his grave.

This whole mis-conception about how a stereo set-up is correctly listened to is very off-putting. The hysterical thing is, some here doing it are so content being wrong about the proper speaker placement and affording an AR speaker the correct amount of power that is necessary to truly enjoy it makes me afraid of what will become of AR speakers enthusiasts in the future.

 

""I do believe that the 3/3a's are more flexible regarding power requirements then is commonly noted"" 

This remark is so off base, it isn't funny!

 

 

[der]

I wasn't so much thinking of that old Eico tube amp for the 3a's but more for my 4x's in my garage system.

der

[frankmarsi]

I don't know you "der' but, your foto conveys a person who may be a reasonable person.

I regret to say your opinion just now posted although is correct in terms of low wattage usage with small speakers is, I'm afraid will literally fall on deaf ears.

 

[Sonnar]

5 minutes ago, frankmarsi said:

 

""Wow...that kinda throws the whole huge power needed for the 3's argument right out of the window. Very nice indeed."" 

OMG, this is getting to be a very misguided group here!

Not to mention how much pleasure is being missed.

It's kind of like dry-humping isn't it?

The 'real-thing' is so much better!

This constant opining of doing the incorrect thing is so off-base about correct speaker placement and powering that "Eddie V." must be

rolling in his grave.

This whole mis-conception about how a stereo set-up is correctly listened to is very off-putting. The hysterical thing is, some here doing it are so content being wrong about the proper speaker placement and affording an AR speaker the correct amount of power that is necessary to truly enjoy it makes afraid of what will become of AR speakers enthusiasts in the future.

""I do believe that the 3/3a's are more flexible regarding power requirements then is commonly noted"" 

This remark is so off base, it isn't funny!

Many years Ago a fiend let me drove his Ferrari. I don' t exceed 70 mph, but I was so pleased to drive an exceptional car , at the time I had a very quiet Volvo V70 station wagon. It isn 't necessary to run at 200 mph to have the incredible satisfaction to drive an exceptionally fine car like a Ferrari , even at 70 mph it 's a different thing . When I use AR 3 with a low wattage tube amp is the same , of course big AR speakers seems to have no limits if You feed it with high power amps, but You can still enjoy it also with less power. Ciao, Adriano