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An AR cocktail revisited.....


lakecat

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Awhile ago, I bought some Heathkit 103-as cabs with the 3a tweeter in them. The woofers and mids were gone. Still had the classic Heathkit grill...so I decided to try and install the AR11 woofer and midrange in these cabs. I also recapped and applied new veneer to the cabs. I think I posted some pics here but....... what I am finding out as I have been testing these lately.......is how damn good they sound!

I had initially done some testing and has put them up for awhile as I had other projects to do so I don't think I tested them that well. I got backed up with speakers in acquiring some AR3's to redo and decided to maybe sell these AR11 clones. I got them out and set them up in the great room for the first time to test them before I sold them to make sure everything is fine with them. And now....... I simply can't sell them!...lol.

They sound that good! The bass is deep and powerful, the mid is crystal clear and defined....and mixes very, very well with the 3a tweeter. And it carries sound very well at even one watt. The Heathkit cab is deeper than the AR11 cab so does that make a difference? Roy says no...but I am puzzled as to why this actually sounds better than the 3a that I have. The mid and woofer is better....to me. I am truly amazed and keeping them.....dammit....lol..

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Beautiful! I think the Heathkit cabs were nicer than AR's (heresy!). And you re-veneered them? Fantastic!

I wouldn't part with them.

-Kent

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2 hours ago, lakecat said:

Awhile ago, I bought some Heathkit 103-as cabs with the 3a tweeter in them. The woofers and mids were gone. Still had the classic Heathkit grill...so I decided to try and install the AR11 woofer and midrange in these cabs. I also recapped and applied new veneer to the cabs. I think I posted some pics here but....... what I am finding out as I have been testing these lately.......is how damn good they sound!

I had initially done some testing and has put them up for awhile as I had other projects to do so I don't think I tested them that well. I got backed up with speakers in acquiring some AR3's to redo and decided to maybe sell these AR11 clones. I got them out and set them up in the great room for the first time to test them before I sold them to make sure everything is fine with them. And now....... I simply can't sell them!...lol.

They sound that good! The bass is deep and powerful, the mid is crystal clear and defined....and mixes very, very well with the 3a tweeter. And it carries sound very well at even one watt. The Heathkit cab is deeper than the AR11 cab so does that make a difference? Roy says no...but I am puzzled as to why this actually sounds better than the 3a that I have. The mid and woofer is better....to me. I am truly amazed and keeping them.....dammit....lol..

 

Hi Jeff,

Technically the woofer specs are the same as the ferrite magnet/foam surround 3a woofer, and the internal volume of the cabinet isn't much different. There are other variables to consider, assuming you are comparing them in the same space with the same source material. Are they truly AR-11 "clones" or are you using the 103/3a crossover? The age and condition of the drivers, level controls, and amount and type of cabinet stuffing, can all have an impact on the difference...and as we know, the response of the original AR-3a tweeter is all over the place these days. I have heard differences between pairs of repaired and restored 3a's, which can only be attributable to the condition of the original drivers. The later AR-11 mid used in your 103 cabinets is also a bit stronger than the original 3a mid.

Roy

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21 hours ago, RoyC said:
21 hours ago, RoyC said:
21 hours ago, RoyC said:

Hi Jeff,

Technically the woofer specs are the same as the ferrite magnet/foam surround 3a woofer, and the internal volume of the cabinet isn't much different. There are other variables to consider, assuming you are comparing them in the same space with the same source material. Are they truly AR-11 "clones" or are you using the 103/3a crossover? The age and condition of the drivers, level controls, and amount and type of cabinet stuffing, can all have an impact on the difference...and as we know, the response of the original AR-3a tweeter is all over the place these days. I have heard differences between pairs of repaired and restored 3a's, which can only be attributable to the condition of the original drivers. The later AR-11 mid used in your 103 cabinets is also a bit stronger than the original 3a mid.

Roy

Hi Jeff,

Technically the woofer specs are the same as the ferrite magnet/foam surround 3a woofer, and the internal volume of the cabinet isn't much different. There are other variables to consider, assuming you are comparing them in the same space with the same source material. Are they truly AR-11 "clones" or are you using the 103/3a crossover? The age and condition of the drivers, level controls, and amount and type of cabinet stuffing, can all have an impact on the difference...and as we know, the response of the original AR-3a tweeter is all over the place these days. I have heard differences between pairs of repaired and restored 3a's, which can only be attributable to the condition of the original drivers. The later AR-11 mid used in your 103 cabinets is also a bit stronger than the original 3a mid.

Roy

Hi Jeff,

Technically the woofer specs are the same as the ferrite magnet/foam surround 3a woofer, and the internal volume of the cabinet isn't much different. There are other variables to consider, assuming you are comparing them in the same space with the same source material. Are they truly AR-11 "clones" or are you using the 103/3a crossover? The age and condition of the drivers, level controls, and amount and type of cabinet stuffing, can all have an impact on the difference...and as we know, the response of the original AR-3a tweeter is all over the place these days. I have heard differences between pairs of repaired and restored 3a's, which can only be attributable to the condition of the original drivers. The later AR-11 mid used in your 103 cabinets is also a bit stronger than the original 3a mid.

Roy

Hi Roy..... I am using the original crossover with original Sprague caps. These tweeters have turned out to be excellent and sound the best I have had. I call it the AR cocktail as I am using the AR11 mid and woofer with the 3a tweeter. I did test these when done with them quite some time ago and liked them....but it was in my smaller music room upstairs.....and not for very long. I got those AR3's and have been wrapped up in redoing those so had put these away till last week. Have been playing the 3's a lot in testing and had the 3a's done here in great room also to compare to the 3's. Even had the AR12's down here also playing and listening and testing.

All have sounded excellent down here. And then I bring these AR cocktails down to play and test to sell.....and was dumbfounded by the sound. My son has heard all my stuff over the years and when I had Joe Cocker live cd on....at about ten watts...he comes to landing and sees me sitting about fifteen to twenty feet away on the couch with this smile on my face and he motions to me to turn it down. I get up and turn it down and my son asks me what speakers I am playing.....as he says they are the clean and the highs were so clear....and at three rooms away, could hear it with power and so clean....and heard all the lyrics!

It does put the voice out front more than the others and bass has more force. Just surprised this worked out so well. Soooo.....a collector I am becoming.....as this is one of four pair that I can't sell.

 

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26 minutes ago, lakecat said:

I am using the original crossover with original Sprague caps.

Is the Heathkit xo identical to the AR-3a?

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The AS-103A is identical to the AR-3a, even the crossover is very nearly the same.  Heathkit supplied their own chokes, a fuse assembly, the cabinet and some terminal plates, input connectors, but otherwise the values are all identical.  The capacitors supplied originally came from Chicago Industrial.  The cabinet is a Heathkit design, but the inside dimensions give exactly the same internal volume as the original AR-3a, approximately 1.7 cu. ft.  Heathkit's grill panel and Velcro mounting was easier to deal with than AR's glued-on frame, but the cabinet was much more utilitarian (pedestrian) than the original, classic AR-3a with its beautiful beige grill, at least in my opinion. 

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AR-3a_SN 62616-62621_012.jpg

This grill is more elegant than the kit AS-103A, but the speakers performed the same.

--Tom Tyson

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22 hours ago, JKent said:

Is the Heathkit xo identical to the AR-3a?

Hi Kent. I stand corrected as I found a pic of the crossover and I did replace the old caps in it with Dayton polys for mids and tweeters and electrolytics for woofer. It is almost identical to the 3a crossover except for the fuse. I also have a mint pair of AS-103's that are all original and those had the Sprague caps in them. Here is the pic. They made it so you could remove screws and take the whole plate out to work on everything. Made it sooooo much easier.

No one is comparing looks as both have their beauty and love both. But....the Heathkits are more rare....:)  This pair happens to sound very, very good and glad I own it.

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2 hours ago, lakecat said:

Hi Kent. I stand corrected as I found a pic of the crossover and I did replace the old caps in it with Dayton polys for mids and tweeters and electrolytics for woofer. It is almost identical to the 3a crossover except for the fuse. I also have a mint pair of AS-103's that are all original and those had the Sprague caps in them. Here is the pic. They made it so you could remove screws and take the whole plate out to work on everything. Made it sooooo much easier.

No one is comparing looks as both have their beauty and love both. But....the Heathkits are more rare....:)  This pair happens to sound very, very good and glad I own it.

IMG_2867.JPG....

I enjoyed Heathkit's products and they command a decent price even now if you can find an unassembled kit. I still have an FET multimeter from them that I assembled back in the 70's though rarely use it.

Looks like they dispensed with the horizontal brace in the cabinet here. The AR-58s lack any kind of internal bracing just as a  point of reference.

As for esthetics they were competing with the lattice-work grills of Pioneer and Sansui at the time so they can be forgiven.

Roger

edit: oops, now I see the cross brace  -- the contrast on the photo was a bit low ....

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