ra.ra Posted August 29, 2016 Report Share Posted August 29, 2016 Roger, those AR-1-x's are rather rare, but it has definitely been fashioned from an AR-3 prepped cabinet. Kent, thx for the tip, I'll look into that. I hope the thing comes with some directions that have appropriate syntax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlsplace Posted August 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2016 3 hours ago, ra.ra said: .... Kent, thx for the tip, I'll look into that. I hope the thing comes with some directions that have appropriate syntax. Actually it doesn't ... just remember to short your cap leads before measuring and I think you will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlsplace Posted September 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2016 On 8/14/2016 at 0:58 PM, DavidDru said: Looking forward to what you can put together on these Roger. Some good parts to work with. We've got the smoke here today coming back down to us from a fire northeast of here. Sucks. Looks like these cabs will be getting a "Dup-grade" with AR-58s upper range drivers keeping the original woofers. Just a question of crossover mods since the 58 drivers were capable of higher power outputs -- not that I will have a need for that at this point in my life ... If anyone has a reason not do this, speak now or forever hold your peace Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankmarsi Posted September 4, 2016 Report Share Posted September 4, 2016 1 hour ago, owlsplace said: Looks like these cabs will be getting a "Dup-grade" with AR-58s upper range drivers keeping the original woofers. Just a question of crossover mods since the 58 drivers were capable of higher power outputs -- not that I will have a need for that at this point in my life ... If anyone has a reason not do this, speak now or forever hold your peace Roger I will speak up if it so serves the court. Thank you. Am I to understand that you are putting AR-58 tweeters into your AR-3a's because and I paraphrase here, there is "no need to discern a difference at this point in your life"? I say travesty and against the will of fellow AR owners world wide and across this universe. I say sacrilege and shame. If it pleases the court, I motion to have another point of view brought forth. I suggest you think this out more carefully. I sense that you might be experiencing some lack of direction in deciding which speaker you like the best, the AR-5's or the AR-3a's. This has been proven a number of times before in other such instances. You no doubt feel that you are betraying your other speakers. Perhaps deep down inside, you feel dirty and abusive? Speaking personally, I felt the same way when I realized that my favorite speaker, the AR-3a was being discounted in my feelings because the LST's got in the way and offered more of an attraction. Moving up the path to a speaker that is more fun is natural. I say; stand up tall, pull up your boot straps and understand that the 3a's are the better route to take. Be a man!!!* Of course it'll take some time for you to adjust and live in a almost seemingly alternate universe but, in due time you will admit that you are correct for making the change. These days, as has been proven with time, 3a's are an investment. Just look at the crazy asking prices these days on auction. May I suggest to the court that a twelve step program be on order and instituted until the accused comes to his senses for all time. I also suggest to the court of AR members that they exercise leniency and consideration and that you, the accused, really haven't been a bad-egg thus far and that we do not burn you at the stake for such heresy. I rest my case. * Marlon in da god-fadder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ar_pro Posted September 4, 2016 Report Share Posted September 4, 2016 Roger - I'd suspect the later version AR-58 tweeters & mids to be considerably closer to original specification than the orphaned & random AR-3a drivers that you could expect to find on eBay; with a pair of good cabinets and original woofers, it's very tempting to go ahead and marry the appearance of the classic AR-3a with the final evolutionary example of authentic AR mids & tweeters. Wouldn't the AR-58 or AR-91 crossover be more appropriate in this circumstance than the original? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry398 Posted September 4, 2016 Report Share Posted September 4, 2016 17 minutes ago, ar_pro said: Roger - I'd suspect the later version AR-58 tweeters & mids to be considerably closer to original specification than the orphaned & random AR-3a drivers that you could expect to find on eBay; with a pair of good cabinets and original woofers, it's very tempting to go ahead and marry the appearance of the classic AR-3a with the final evolutionary example of authentic AR mids & tweeters. Wouldn't the AR-58 or AR-91 crossover be more appropriate in this circumstance than the original? interesting..... I own the ar3a and the ar58bxi. I find both speakers remarkable. However different in the midrange and tweeter....however, if others say the the ar3a sounded more like the 58 when they were new....thats interesting! I love both, however the 3a is better on certain things, and the 58 is better on others.....these are my top 2 speakers. I also agree with Frank. The 12 inch is superior in overall sound. I like my ar5 and 302's, but prefer the 12 inch woofer.. The one difference the 58 has is that its more focused, and the ar3a is more wide sounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ar_pro Posted September 4, 2016 Report Share Posted September 4, 2016 Harry - I neglected to include an important word in my previous post: I'd suspect the later version AR-58 tweeters & mids to be considerably closer to their original specification; I didn't mean to say that they would be closer to the original AR-3a driver spec. It's a subject for speculation regarding how close to original specification the AR-3 and 3a drivers are at this point in time; it has seemed to me (subjective opinion) that the AR-9 series of drivers have held up very well over their admittedly more limited existence. I believe the upper-range drivers in the AR-58 and AR-91 are essentially identical, but different than what was used in the AR-58bxi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlsplace Posted September 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2016 Well, I probably never would have thought of doing this except for the synchronicity of the whole event. I have been enjoying the 58s' from earlier this year. I haven't finished the crossover on these yet which are upgraded to 91's leaving me with the original crossovers. I think I can meld these with the 3a pots to solve the brightness issue mentioned previously in the 58s thread here: I don't expect any problems with the alnico woofers other than Murphy's law. After I get a pair of 2ax's I can do my AR 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 setup Ha, ha, ha, not sure how to arrange that array. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted September 4, 2016 Report Share Posted September 4, 2016 9 hours ago, owlsplace said: Well, I probably never would have thought of doing this except for the synchronicity of the whole event. I have been enjoying the 58s' from earlier this year. I haven't finished the crossover on these yet which are upgraded to 91's leaving me with the original crossovers. I think I can meld these with the 3a pots to solve the brightness issue mentioned previously in the 58s thread here: Roger Roger, Another possibility would be to use the AR-58 drivers to make a pair of "AR-3a Limited" speakers. These were manufactured by AR around 1990 and marketed primarily in Asia and Europe. The drivers were made by Tonegen, and were very similar to the 80's era AR drivers in your 58's. The 3a Limited crossover is very similar to the original AR-3a crossover with some small differences to accommodate the later style tweeter and the use of common 8 ohm L-pad level controls. I've built a few pairs of these and have found them to have a sonic character somewhere between the original AR-3a and AR-11. (I personally prefer them over the 11). I can provide the crossover details if you are interested. If you decide to use the 58 drivers to make original AR-3a's, you will only need a .1mh coil across the tweeter. No other crossover changes are needed. I'm not a fan of the 58...no tweeter/mid controls, cheap (difficult to repair) cabinet input terminals, and voicing not to my liking. I think of the 58 as simply a cheapened AR-91. I've put the parts of more than a few 58's to good use in other models. Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted September 4, 2016 Report Share Posted September 4, 2016 Roger, I should add that the alnico woofer in your photo was obviously rebuilt using the currently available replacement cone, and (most likely) companion voice coil. I would be more concerned about response differences between these and the original woofers than anything else being discussed regarding AR-58 drivers. Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlsplace Posted September 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 13 hours ago, RoyC said: Roger, I should add that the alnico woofer in your photo was obviously rebuilt using the currently available replacement cone, and (most likely) companion voice coil. I would be more concerned about response differences between these and the original woofers than anything else being discussed regarding AR-58 drivers. Roy Roy, I was wondering about those woofers hence my mention of Murphy's law. The 3a-Improved/Limited? option sounds interesting -- I'll drop you a note. Had some time to work on the cabs today and noticed one had previously unnoticed water damage on the bottom. Given all the ands/ifs or buts I don't think I'm going to spend a lot of time on these. The plant water stain cleared up rather nicely with some wood bleach. These are Thorndike Street speakers while the bleach was from a company in Norwood, believe it or not. The nicer of the two cabs -- nice reds, orange and yellows. There is considerable variation in the color shades between the two cabinets. Not sure I want to go there at the moment so they will probably get a wet sanded clear Watco finish with a little prior touch up with epoxy or poly resin on a few rough spots. Although as an old engineer friend of mine was fond of saying, "If you don't have time to do it right, when are you going to have time to do it over?" Well, what can I say ... sooner or later, maybe never -- maybe Frank will volunteer to do a workcation Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakecat Posted September 5, 2016 Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 9 hours ago, owlsplace said: Roy, I was wondering about those woofers hence my mention of Murphy's law. The 3a-Improved/Limited? option sounds interesting -- I'll drop you a note. Had some time to work on the cabs today and noticed one had previously unnoticed water damage on the bottom. Given all the ands/ifs or buts I don't think I'm going to spend a lot of time on these. The plant water stain cleared up rather nicely with some wood bleach. These are Thorndike Street speakers while the bleach was from a company in Norwood, believe it or not. The nicer of the two cabs -- nice reds, orange and yellows. There is considerable variation in the color shades between the two cabinets. Not sure I want to go there at the moment so they will probably get a wet sanded clear Watco finish with a little prior touch up with epoxy or poly resin on a few rough spots. Although as an old engineer friend of mine was fond of saying, "If you don't have time to do it right, when are you going to have time to do it over?" Well, what can I say ... sooner or later, maybe never -- maybe Frank will volunteer to do a workcation Roger I can hear Taps being played in the distance.....lol. Shame they are such a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlsplace Posted September 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 1 minute ago, lakecat said: I can hear Taps being played in the distance.... ... then the Resurrection ... What that trucker saying ... ah, yes, "Old truckers, never die -- they just get a new Peterbuilt." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankmarsi Posted September 5, 2016 Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 ""Well, what can I say ... sooner or later, maybe never -- maybe Frank will volunteer to do a work cation "" Roger I’d love to help you "owlsplace" BUT! My best x-girlfriend called and changed her mind after a 36 year absence. Yeah she’s finally coming back to me. I have a dental appointment. Winter’s around the corner, I will have to shovel the drive-way soon. My bank feels their savings interest rate is going to increase, I just have to give it more time. My broker says I can’t escape an early withdrawal penalty. I have a mani-pedi appointment. I’m having a hair transplant and I’m embarrassed to be in public because the plugs will show. I’ll think about it. But seriously folks, I have so much AR speaker work here myself, with six 12 inch re-foaming jobs waiting to be done for my 3a’s. I promised myself in 1990 that someday I would get back to them. Just thinking about it has become burdensome. Besides I'm really more a 'listener' than a rebuilder. In other news, I’m breaking in a newly refurbished PL-700II on my ignored AR-9’s. I’ve removed the two PL-400’s that were bi-amping them as they also need rebuilding. So, I’m using a single amp again. I must admit that no matter how powerful this amplifier is, these speakers do soak up power. I find myself more enamored with the LST’s however, the 9’s do present a ‘newer’ sound quality about themselves. I'm just not certain it's for me. When the room is finish new evaluations will be made. In the main listening room. aka 'LST-ville' I've been testing an inexpensive foam corner 'bass-trap'. To me I find a slight 'tightening-up of the bass coupled with a more focused sounding mids and highs. Over-all I'm enjoying this slight change because it's apparent the room needs it. So, I have many things scheduled and I won't be able to come there and do this project for you. Besides, I'm allergic to saw dust from sanding. Your newly acquired 3a’s aren’t in that bad of shape. Of course at first it may feel overwhelming, but certainly you seem able to handle it. I trust that you will enjoy yourself rebuilding these great speakers as the end result will be well worth it. FM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlsplace Posted September 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2016 Frank, you are way too busy ... oh, get a plasma tv before they all disappear ... I'd go out there and help you but I have a phobia about big cities ... besides my grandfather was born there so I don't feel like I need to do that So I enjoyed a relaxed Labor Day working on cabs and drinking beer and soon on to the barbecue. Don't they look nice all oiled up waiting for their massage ... I did look at those snarky, rebuilt woofers. The foams seem nice and compliant. I wasn't able to bottom out the woofer with moderate pressure and didn't want to see just exactly how good these are by breaking them just yet. So here is what I ended up with as I sit here relaxing ... felt good getting in some wood time outdoors ... they are not perfect but the women I go with never seem to notice the difference. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted September 6, 2016 Report Share Posted September 6, 2016 13 minutes ago, owlsplace said: they are not perfect Look pretty great to me. Nice work Roger. Give us more details! Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlsplace Posted September 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2016 2 hours ago, JKent said: Look pretty great to me. Nice work Roger. Give us more details! Kent Well, just straight Watco natural finish with a little too much sanding on the water damaged cabinet. I had some shellac crystals laying around in garnet, not the best color choice, anyway I melted it into the voids and gaps to stabilize the cabs rather than mess with poly resin or epoxy. I may do a beeswax finish if I get carried away ... Probably should have done more before pictures, but the tops, well, I need to learn to fill the scratches before oiling to avoid the dark lines. Then there is my neighbor who keeps saying don't touch that up, it's character, you can't buy that ... rarely see the tops of the cabs here anyway. I need to make another grill and get some cloth. I doubt I will be lucky enough to match the cloth on the one I have ... then decide which crossover, seems there are several possibilities ... Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted September 6, 2016 Report Share Posted September 6, 2016 12 minutes ago, owlsplace said: I may do a beeswax finish if I get carried away ... Gee.. Any idea where to get beeswax? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankmarsi Posted September 6, 2016 Report Share Posted September 6, 2016 I don't give 'a bee's wax' about what finish you use as those cabinets are more than acceptable already. My question is regarding the next step and that is, what amplifier will you be using? One can't deny that these speakers are 'watt-hogs' and it can't be forgotten a higher power amp will rendered more musical satisfaction. As "Kent" has said: "Look pretty great to me. Nice work Roger. Give us more details!" Right now I'm thinking about the amp, and the program sources. And Roger, let it be known I have left that big city life up there and have become a tree-hugging, grass cutting, bug swatting, deer watching along with a ground-hog, squirrels, chip-monks, moles, red fox, hawks, turkey vultures, blue jean wearing, no longer shaving everyday or using cologne, new jersey-ite sort of person! Nicely maintained roads, no subways, no more elbowing people but, some new late arrivals here are terrible drivers though. However, the very high property taxes do cause difficulty! And to quote Charles Laughton in the Hunchback: "I'm not an Animal!" Let's now talk about the high-power amplifier you'll be using with these speakers. You are going to be using a high-power amplifier, aren't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlsplace Posted September 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2016 12 hours ago, JKent said: Gee.. Any idea where to get beeswax? Well, on the AR-5 cabs that I waxed I used the wax from the original wax cap. A little chemical smell at first that went away. The cosmetic industry doesn't like to use US sourced beeswax these days because of pesticide/chemical contamination so it is easy to find. Last pound I bought was $6 on the auction site. Best to get it from your own hives which I also have available. 2 hours ago, frankmarsi said: You will be using a high-power amplifier, won't you? Kent talked me into an Adcom 555II which I rebuilt a while back and there is no problem with "problem" loads. Lately it has been driving AR-58s and ADS-L980's at the same time without impedance matching switched in and without breaking a sweat except the fuse on the left channel AR-58 blows occasionally but it is underrated anyway. Not fond of blowing those FNM fuses as they are a bit pricey. Which begs the question of the proper fuse rating for the AR-58? AR suggested a 1-1/4A fuse for the 3a IIRC. I think the 980 uses a straight 2A fuse which is affordable. The 555II lacks speaker protection circuitry outside of the buss fuses which would probably prevent full buss voltage (80V?) from dumping on the woofer voice coils for too long but ... Glad to see you are communing with the cows, Frank. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankmarsi Posted September 7, 2016 Report Share Posted September 7, 2016 9 hours ago, owlsplace said: Well, on the AR-5 cabs that I waxed I used the wax from the original wax cap. A little chemical smell at first that went away. The cosmetic industry doesn't like to use US sourced beeswax these days because of pesticide/chemical contamination so it is easy to find. Last pound I bought was $6 on the auction site. Best to get it from your own hives which I also have available. Kent talked me into an Adcom 555II which I rebuilt a while back and there is no problem with "problem" loads. Lately it has been driving AR-58s and ADS-L980's at the same time without impedance matching switched in and without breaking a sweat except the fuse on the left channel AR-58 blows occasionally but it is underrated anyway. Not fond of blowing those FNM fuses as they are a bit pricey. Which begs the question of the proper fuse rating for the AR-58? AR suggested a 1-1/4A fuse for the 3a IIRC. I think the 980 uses a straight 2A fuse which is affordable. The 555II lacks speaker protection circuitry outside of the buss fuses which would probably prevent full buss voltage (80V?) from dumping on the woofer voice coils for too long but ... Glad to see you are communing with the cows, Frank. Roger Cows, really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlsplace Posted September 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2016 2 hours ago, frankmarsi said: Cows, really? Jerseys ... Actually, I wanted to go to school in New Jersey but couldn't swing the finances. Grandad graduated from Bordentown Military Institute over a hundred years ago -- colorful history. Here is the previously rumored hand-rubbed beeswax finish -- went with my own beeswax as the bees wafted around to see where the delectable odor was coming from. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankmarsi Posted September 7, 2016 Report Share Posted September 7, 2016 Bordentown, New Jersey? I'm aware of the jersey cow breed and the town is west of me. Anyone remember the "Borden"milk brand? How did you manage the swarming bees? Please, last summer a group of bees took me down for a few days of bed rest. I ran into the house at super speed, they followed as they were stinging me about the head, face, neck and arms. We had a major battle inside, they lost but, within moments I swelled up severely. I read one could die because your throat will swell up and prevent breathing, I found that possibility very real because my throat did close off some because of the swelling. A very scary event and the thought crossed my mind that I'd never hear my LST's again. I guess that wood finish would not be a good alternative for me to use. I like the way the finish looks though, nice and deep along with a luxurious luster and you say they smelled good too, what more could you want? Perhaps one could say, soon you will be listening to sounds sweeter than honey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ar_pro Posted September 8, 2016 Report Share Posted September 8, 2016 On 9/4/2016 at 1:25 AM, RoyC said: I've built a few pairs of these and have found them to have a sonic character somewhere between the original AR-3a and AR-11. (I personally prefer them over the 11). I can provide the crossover details if you are interested. If you decide to use the 58 drivers to make original AR-3a's, you will only need a .1mh coil across the tweeter. No other crossover changes are needed. Roy This is very interesting to me. Roy, could you please post the crossover details for the "AR-3a Limited" speakers that you've built? Did the "Limited" sytems that you built include later woofers (AR-9 series, 58 series, or Tonegen), or did they use earlier woofers as from the AR-3a or AR-11? Also, if Roger uses his AR-58 mids & tweeters with the original AR-3a woofer, the only necessary crossover change would be the addition of the .1mh coil across the tweeter? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ar_pro Posted September 8, 2016 Report Share Posted September 8, 2016 That finish is as nice as any I've ever seen. Roger, I think we need to know the details of your beeswax formula & technique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.