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Spraying lacquer on the AR3's...big fail.....


lakecat

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Using MinWax semi-gloss lacquer in spray cans and it just isn't working. It is leaving orange peel and can't get it smooth. It just dries so fast that is doesn't have time to flow together. I now have three coats on one cabinet and have sanded and steel wooled between coats to try and smooth the orange peel.....but it just isn't satisfactory. Some people might say it looks fine from three feet but in the light.....one can see it.

Soooo.....I am retiring the lacquer attempt and going back to what I know....and that is poly. I have to now strip that dang lacquer and I have this cabinet stained so nicely. What a mess. Anyone else ever try lacquer? I was trying to use it like the original was but I see they use a spirit stain to flow the cherry color together and it masks the grain. These are much brighter in the grain and like it...so it is not like originals anyway.

 

 

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Last year I striped the vinyl off a pair of OLA utilities and replaced with paper backed cherry veneer. No stain. I used DEFT satin lacquer in the rattle can on them with no problems. Took about thirty minutes to dry at 68 degrees F and the next cote melted right in. Except for the horrible smell that eventually went away I was very pleased with the results. Not familiar with the MinWax lacquer. What was the temperature? Was the wind blowing if outside? I am going to try it this summer over some Watco Oil Finish on some walnut AR3a's. I am going to let the finish cure for a couple weeks first. Hope this helps.

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Try spraying a little wetter than you are doing now. No need to sand between coats, as Larry said each coat will melt into the previous.  Three coats is not very much  for lacquer.  Do a couple of coats per day until you have about eight coats down then let them dry for a couple of weeks.  At that point you can wet sand with 800 until the orange peel is leveled and the polish with a compound.  The Minwax in the black can is true nitrocellous lacquer and pretty good stuff.  It's a different look and a bit more work than the hand rubbed oil finish.  Good luck.

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8 hours ago, wilson said:

Try spraying a little wetter than you are doing now. No need to sand between coats, as Larry said each coat will melt into the previous.  Three coats is not very much  for lacquer.  Do a couple of coats per day until you have about eight coats down then let them dry for a couple of weeks.  At that point you can wet sand with 800 until the orange peel is leveled and the polish with a compound.  The Minwax in the black can is true nitrocellous lacquer and pretty good stuff.  It's a different look and a bit more work than the hand rubbed oil finish.  Good luck.

Eight coats!?....holy crap batman!...lol. The can says three coats....and I am getting runs now because I am trying wetter. The orange peel doesn't go away because it won't flow. Sooo...do I take forever by only spraying one side at a time that sits horizonally so it can flow without running?...or try hotter weather? I am doing this inside as outside is no way a place to do this kind of work.

My last option is to heat cans and see if the lacquer sprays better. Just a mess right now. Thanks for feedback.

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I've always had great results with Watcos Danish oil on all my restorations. Doubt I'll ever lacquer a speaker cab.

I'm about to start re-veneering two cabinets for an amp and pre amp with beautiful Ebony veneer, which will have a lacquer finish, attempting to restore to the original piano gloss finish. These originally had 21 coats of lacquer!

Good luck with your cabs. Post some pics when you can.

Glenn

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I used to use Antique Oil on my KLH Model Eight radio restorations because I was afraid of lacquer but I'm now a convert. I use the Minwax GLOSS in the black can. I have not tried Deft but can tell you I had terrible results with Rustoleum. You have to work quickly because it dries so fast but that also means no dust. I guess you have to get the hang of how "wet" to put it on because as you discovered you can get runs if it's too heavy. Keep the can moving but spray in one continuous line (say, left to right) then stop and start another pass--don't keep spraying back & forth. Also be sure to check the distance of the can from the surface. I think about 8 to 12" is right but read the directions. And yes--8 or more light coats is about right. I used to build model cars as a kid so maybe there's some residual "muscle memory" of the right technique ;)

You can also Google "what causes orange peel?" or similar wording. Most of the articles apply to real spray guns but I think some will be useful for your rattle can use. This one, for example: http://lumberjocks.com/topics/33594

Temperature, humidity and distance are 3 big factors. You don't want the solvent to dry mid-air, leaving lumpy deposits on the surface. And maybe it's the Satin that doesn't work well. I recommend Gloss. I think that's what the original lacquered finishes were but if it's too shiny for your taste you can can use rotten stone or very fine wet sandpaper to tone it down.

btw--I would NOT put lacquer over oil--that's just asking for adhesion problems.

Sorry you're having such a rough time of it. Good luck getting it right.

-Kent

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IMHO, spraying lacquer isn't something for the DIY'rs and for a number of reasons. The OP cited some that led to his 'fail', but other reasons are doing it safely. You're basically working in a highly explosive environment and special breathing apparatus must be used. I've been doing speaker resto's for over 10 yrs. and luckily haven't had a customer insist on a sprayed on lacquer finish. If one had, I would have taken the cabs to a professional to get it done.

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If you have everything else complete and ready for the lacquer, and if you are set on using it as a finish, you could try a local furniture refinisher shop.  They are set up for all that and since they do it all the time, really know how to dial it in.  They can even give you options on how glossy or satin you might want it and I bet they use even better material with better UV protection etc.  Since it is just the lacquering, it shouldn't be very expensive, especially considering the materials you would otherwise purchase and time.  Not to mention the concerns Carl and others mention.  Frankly I don't know where you would do it and not either get overspray on things or dust in the process.

Because of their value, I did it on my 3's and am glad I did.

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9 hours ago, JKent said:

I used to use Antique Oil on my KLH Model Eight radio restorations because I was afraid of lacquer but I'm now a convert. I use the Minwax GLOSS in the black can. I have not tried Deft but can tell you I had terrible results with Rustoleum. You have to work quickly because it dries so fast but that also means no dust. I guess you have to get the hang of how "wet" to put it on because as you discovered you can get runs if it's too heavy. Keep the can moving but spray in one continuous line (say, left to right) then stop and start another pass--don't keep spraying back & forth. Also be sure to check the distance of the can from the surface. I think about 8 to 12" is right but read the directions. And yes--8 or more light coats is about right. I used to build model cars as a kid so maybe there's some residual "muscle memory" of the right technique ;)

You can also Google "what causes orange peel?" or similar wording. Most of the articles apply to real spray guns but I think some will be useful for your rattle can use. This one, for example: http://lumberjocks.com/topics/33594

Temperature, humidity and distance are 3 big factors. You don't want the solvent to dry mid-air, leaving lumpy deposits on the surface. And maybe it's the Satin that doesn't work well. I recommend Gloss. I think that's what the original lacquered finishes were but if it's too shiny for your taste you can can use rotten stone or very fine wet sandpaper to tone it down.

btw--I would NOT put lacquer over oil--that's just asking for adhesion problems.

Sorry you're having such a rough time of it. Good luck getting it right.

-Kent

Kent....a big thank you as that link educated me a lot about lacquer. My fears were correct. Not warm enough and spraying too hard and too much. It certainly isn't poly!

I am not afraid of lacquer and am looking forward to this project now. One can even flow out stuff with lacquer thinner....duh..never thought of it. I found out orange peel is no big deal to fix. Soooo..

 

I owe you a drink or two my good man!....:)

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10 hours ago, lakecat said:

Eight coats!?....holy crap batman!...lol. The can says three coats...

The can is not expecting you to wet sand.  What Carl says about safety is true - you need a respirator with organic vapor cartridges and you need to be outside because nitro is quite flammable.  But lacquer can be very forgiving in terms of ease of sanding out mistakes and continuing, and if you want that look, a novice can get good results with patience.  Here is a shot of a walnut guitar body done with Minwax rattle cans (probably about 8 -10 coats) wet sanded with 800, then 1000, then polished with a rag and meguiars compound.  Two or three coats about 30 minutes apart then let dry overnight.   It had orange peel before sanding.

With the speaker on its back you should be able to do all sides at once.  Maybe get an extra can and practice a few passes on a vertical surface from different distances.

  

minwax.jpg

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2 hours ago, wilson said:

The can is not expecting you to wet sand.  What Carl says about safety is true - you need a respirator with organic vapor cartridges and you need to be outside because nitro is quite flammable.  But lacquer can be very forgiving in terms of ease of sanding out mistakes and continuing, and if you want that look, a novice can get good results with patience.  Here is a shot of a walnut guitar body done with Minwax rattle cans (probably about 8 -10 coats) wet sanded with 800, then 1000, then polished with a rag and meguiars compound.  Two or three coats about 30 minutes apart then let dry overnight.   It had orange peel before sanding.

With the speaker on its back you should be able to do all sides at once.  Maybe get an extra can and practice a few passes on a vertical surface from different distances.

  

minwax.jpg

Wilson.....that looks very professional. I am not trying to get that kind of gloss but more of a semi-gloss like it was in 1960. That looks like a lot of work to get that to its present condition but I do want that depth. Nice work! My work area has plenty of ventilation so not worried about protecting my lungs on one pair of speakers.

Have you ever used lacquer thinner to remove orange peel? The link within a link that Kent sent me had a guy discovering that when pushed for time on a lacquer project he was doing. It makes it flow together and evens out the edges.

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Not professional at all - just a guy with a few rattle cans in a garage with the door open.  I've never used thinner to remove orange peel. I have heard of a product called blush remover (blush is moisture trapped in a coat due to humidity). I think that it is just thinner in a spray can which is used to melt the coat and let the moisture escape - that might work.  I have had fresh coats of lacquer reduce the orange peel on the previous coat - it kind of keeps on that way and by the time you are at 6 or so coats the orange peel is pretty easy to sand out.

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Wilson...I do want to point out that I do put cabinets on its backs on an elevated support so that nothing touches any of the sides. I then can move around the cabinet spraying all sides at once. 

I have sprayed poly numerous times and will get the touch for this pretty quick. I just need warmer weather...low humidity..and will warm cans before spraying. 

I never got orange peel with poly so was attacking it wrong. Just ignorant on nature of lacquer. You guys have been a big help...thanks.

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If your goal is semi-gloss finish, why not use brush or paint roller as good and clean brush it is more than enough for nice semi-gloss finish. You can wet sand or wax small inparfections away later when laquer is dry enough. Washing roller or brush is not too much work...

Kimmo

 

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On 4/28/2016 at 6:22 PM, wilson said:

The can is not expecting you to wet sand.  What Carl says about safety is true - you need a respirator with organic vapor cartridges and you need to be outside because nitro is quite flammable.  But lacquer can be very forgiving in terms of ease of sanding out mistakes and continuing, and if you want that look, a novice can get good results with patience.  Here is a shot of a walnut guitar body done with Minwax rattle cans (probably about 8 -10 coats) wet sanded with 800, then 1000, then polished with a rag and meguiars compound.  Two or three coats about 30 minutes apart then let dry overnight.   It had orange peel before sanding.

With the speaker on its back you should be able to do all sides at once.  Maybe get an extra can and practice a few passes on a vertical surface from different distances.

  

minwax.jpg

That looks gorgeous, and the finish I'm after with my amp cabs. Did you use a wood sealer prior to applying the lacquer? From some preliminary reading I've done on line, it seems it must be done. How many cans did you use?

Thanks, Glenn

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