ra.ra Posted November 5, 2017 Report Share Posted November 5, 2017 Glenn, I am able to view all of the pics in your posts in this thread using both Safari and Chrome web browsers. The only ones that are not showing up for me are from the 12.18.16 post by Klaus where he was quoting you. Man, that Photobucket mess was like a blindside attack - - glad I didn't get caught in the crossfire - - and thanks for reactivating your great pics to these helpful threads. Great job on those AR-12's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD70 Posted November 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2017 3 hours ago, ra.ra said: Glenn, I am able to view all of the pics in your posts in this thread using both Safari and Chrome web browsers. The only ones that are not showing up for me are from the 12.18.16 post by Klaus where he was quoting you. Man, that Photobucket mess was like a blindside attack - - glad I didn't get caught in the crossfire - - and thanks for reactivating your great pics to these helpful threads. Great job on those AR-12's. Thanks again Robert! Any thoughts on attending the next Frankenfest on March 10th? I may bring the 12's, though the 3's with Roys rebuilt mids are spectacular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD70 Posted November 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 Thought I'd add a few more reference pics for others that may have a set of these some day. Re-foaming the mids Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD70 Posted November 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 The last pics showing the mid refurb and woofer shimming for the new surrounds. It was odd that there's two dust caps. I assume the domed cap was to modernize the look. I think this pretty much covers the project. Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 On 10/11/2017 at 5:03 AM, GD70 said: I also got the mid surrounds from Speakerworks. Excellent sounding speakers that were a one year only model. I have a thread showing the restoration if you're interested. Nice work on your mids. It brought back memories! Glenn Hi GD70 That's a neat way of doing the mids! Will try it - I fiddled with toothpicks working round the edge in stages which is clumsy and doesn't help centering. I need to find some original AR 8 ohm woofers that will fit. Have you any pics of the woofers especially the back and serial number? Did you get all the foams from the same place? Cheers David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 Thanks for all these pics and guidance. Will do likewise with that paperwork. Cheers David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD70 Posted November 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 Hi David! You bet! Photobucket screwed so many people making pics un viewable. I was asked to relink the pics which are a big part of the restoration description. Good luck with yours and look forward to seeing pics of your progress. Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ra.ra Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 Hey Glenn, thanks for re-posting this - - - between your tips, techniques, and the excellent photos, this is essentially an entire tutorial for an AR-12 restoration. It is a superb piece of documentation, and I really appreciate the drafting layouts for gaskets and foam rings as well as the isometric sketch of the grille frames. I was never aware that this woofer had the double dust cap, but I've run into that on a couple of AR 8" woofers. The parts drawings in the Library always refer to this as "Cosmetic", so I suspect your guess at its purpose is probably correct. The single flat cap is certainly typical in the AR-2ax, AR-5, and AR-8, but I think I've also seen it on more modern AR-14's - - I s'pose you didn't run into the double cap on your LST-II's? Part numbers from '77 and '79 AR price lists are attached. About that midrange driver - - it seems the only times I've seen these type of drivers contained within their separate chamber is for cone type mid drivers that have open backs - - is this correct? And I assume there are two more short brown/orange wire leads inside that cup? Very cool method of raising the cone with those foam shims from below. Great project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD70 Posted November 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 Hi Robert! Thanks for the cudos! I wanted to document this as best as possible for future 12 owners. The LST-2's woofers have the flat dust caps, so it's the same woofers it's the cosmetic dust cap added. Yes, the mids have open backs, which worked out well being able to insert the foam strips to raise the mid cone for reforming, and yes additional leads in the cup to the drivers. Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ra.ra Posted November 12, 2017 Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 Thanks, Glenn. This is a great thread for anyone who happens to find this relatively rare model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidDru Posted November 12, 2017 Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 cool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakecat Posted November 12, 2017 Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 Nice work on the 12' s Glenn...:) I hope you found as I was pleasantly surprised to find out....how damn great these babies sound. Why a one year production is a mystery to me. They advertised them as "rock" speakers...and they are right. I have them stacked on my 3a's in bedroom with a recapped Sansui 9090 pushing them that I bought new in 1976. Had early Beatles on last night before settling down for dreamland...and even my wife remarked how nice those two speakers sounded...and they have been up there for over a year!..lol. We don't play it a lot....so it seems each time we do....it's like...damn!...that sounds good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david Posted November 12, 2017 Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 14 minutes ago, lakecat said: Nice work on the 12' s Glenn...:) I hope you found as I was pleasantly surprised to find out....how damn great these babies sound. Why a one year production is a mystery to me. They advertised them as "rock" speakers...and they are right. I have them stacked on my 3a's in bedroom with a recapped Sansui 9090 pushing them that I bought new in 1976. Had early Beatles on last night before settling down for dreamland...and even my wife remarked how nice those two speakers sounded...and they have been up there for over a year!..lol. We don't play it a lot....so it seems each time we do....it's like...damn!...that sounds good! Hi Lakecat, I thought they sounded more towards the lounge music than the bigger AR9 range. They had a very nice tone with a good level of detail. Above all quite forward. In that respect they are very similar to the late Teledyne "Spirit" range which I know audiophiles do not regard as AR at all and certainly not classic soeakers, but IMHO the tall 162s sound very pleasant indeed with a whole range of music. My Sansui 661 receiver is quite happily driving the AR12s on stands. I get the distinct impression this range of speakers were designed with the needs of compact living in mind and could (on sturdy ones!) be used on a bookshelf or an alcove situation. I have retrofitted grills on a frame obtained from vintage_ar which look very smart but not half as good as the original 1970s "cool" foam grills when they were new. Cheers David On 10/11/2017 at 5:03 AM, GD70 said: I also got the mid surrounds from Speakerworks. Excellent sounding speakers that were a one year only model. I have a thread showing the restoration if you're interested. Nice work on your mids. It brought back memories! Glenn Hi GD70 That's a neat way of doing the mids! Will try it - I fiddled with toothpicks working round the edge in stages which is clumsy and doesn't help centering. I need to find some original AR 8 ohm woofers that will fit. Have you any pics of the woofers especially the back and serial number? Did you get all the foams from the same place? Cheers David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve F Posted November 12, 2017 Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 Quick question for all you AR-12 midrange restorers--The AR-12's small cone midrange didn't use a spider--it was "centered" strictly by the action of the ferrofluid acting on the voice coil. See the attached excerpt from the AR-12 lit. How did you deal with this? Was the magnetic fluid still there and functional? Did you replace the fluid? Did you simply not notice one way or the other, just replaced the surround and voila! The driver sounds fine? Just curious. Steve F. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD70 Posted November 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, Steve F said: Quick question for all you AR-12 midrange restorers--The AR-12's small cone midrange didn't use a spider--it was "centered" strictly by the action of the ferrofluid acting on the voice coil. See the attached excerpt from the AR-12 lit. How did you deal with this? Was the magnetic fluid still there and functional? Did you replace the fluid? Did you simply not notice one way or the other, just replaced the surround and voila! The driver sounds fine? Just curious. Steve F. Hi Steve, When I shimmed the cones for the surrounds, I spent a lot of time making sure the VCs were centered in the ferro fluid. They moved easily so I left the fluid alone. With the foam shims under the cones I still kept checking that they were centered. Once the surrounds were glued to the cones, I removed the foam shims and let the cone drop to its natural position, again checking multiple times it was centered before gluing the surrounds to the baskets. Very straight forward, just take your time and keep checking. They sound great, and excursion is minimal, even at volume I really don't see any movement. Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD70 Posted November 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 2 hours ago, david said: Hi Lakecat, I thought they sounded more towards the lounge music than the bigger AR9 range. They had a very nice tone with a good level of detail. Above all quite forward. In that respect they are very similar to the late Teledyne "Spirit" range which I know audiophiles do not regard as AR at all and certainly not classic soeakers, but IMHO the tall 162s sound very pleasant indeed with a whole range of music. My Sansui 661 receiver is quite happily driving the AR12s on stands. I get the distinct impression this range of speakers were designed with the needs of compact living in mind and could (on sturdy ones!) be used on a bookshelf or an alcove situation. I have retrofitted grills on a frame obtained from vintage_ar which look very smart but not half as good as the original 1970s "cool" foam grills when they were new. Cheers David Hi GD70 That's a neat way of doing the mids! Will try it - I fiddled with toothpicks working round the edge in stages which is clumsy and doesn't help centering. I need to find some original AR 8 ohm woofers that will fit. Have you any pics of the woofers especially the back and serial number? Did you get all the foams from the same place? Cheers David Hi David, Theres a pic of the woofer showing the part numbers. Ra ra posted a list of woofers that were interchangeable so I think you can find a suitable substitute or match from one used in a different model. Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david Posted November 12, 2017 Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 21 minutes ago, Steve F said: Quick question for all you AR-12 midrange restorers--The AR-12's small cone midrange didn't use a spider--it was "centered" strictly by the action of the ferrofluid acting on the voice coil. See the attached excerpt from the AR-12 lit. How did you deal with this? Was the magnetic fluid still there and functional? Did you replace the fluid? Did you simply not notice one way or the other, just replaced the surround and voila! The driver sounds fine? Just curious. Steve F. Hi Steve F. I am not the expert to answer this highly pertinent question. When I sourced some foams for my AR12 mids from either Simply Speakers or Springfield (can't remember!) I enquired about whether it was necessary to do anything about the ferro fluid (which they actually sold in a small bottle!!!) but they said it wasn't essential and the mids were probably OK without doing this. Phew! That was a relief! But I have a sneaking suspicion that the condition of the fluid/mids affects the output of the mids and if the fluid hardens or dries up it's going to affect the overall sound of the speakers. Philips used in their older speakers from the 70s and 80s tweeters used a ferro fluid which tended to harden and dry up and then they just stopped working. However, must say the mids are now singing loud and clear WITHOUT topping up the ferro fluid or even looking at it! In fact, to my mind the clarity and tone in the midrange is one of the best charactetistics of my AR12s. Hope this helps, but get advice from more expert AR fans. Cheers David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakecat Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 Hi David...not sure what lounge music means but when I finished them, I played them in my fairly large great room. I had them on the floor and about six feet between them. I remembered them being advertised as "rock" speakers....so I put Pink Floyd on... I sat about ten to twelve feet away....and was floored! It filled the room with great bass...the mids were just awesome...and you right...the tweeters brought everything forward. Even my son came to landing from his bedroom and asked what speakers was I playing? I turned the music down and asked why...and he remarked how good they sounded even in his bedroom!..lol. So he came down...and I turned it back up..and we jammed to the rest of Pink Floyd...both of us shaking our heads and smiling. I rate them over the AR5...but just my opinion. They sounded best right on floor. And Steve...refoaming the mids was pretty easy after you figure out to hold VC steady while you have it elevated. I cut wood tongue suppressors into three inch strips and used them to elevate and hold VC steady while glued the surround. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD70 Posted November 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 11 hours ago, lakecat said: Nice work on the 12' s Glenn...:) I hope you found as I was pleasantly surprised to find out....how damn great these babies sound. Why a one year production is a mystery to me. They advertised them as "rock" speakers...and they are right. I have them stacked on my 3a's in bedroom with a recapped Sansui 9090 pushing them that I bought new in 1976. Had early Beatles on last night before settling down for dreamland...and even my wife remarked how nice those two speakers sounded...and they have been up there for over a year!..lol. We don't play it a lot....so it seems each time we do....it's like...damn!...that sounds good! Hi Lakecat, Yes, they do sound excellent. They have a more modern sound if that's a way to describe them over the 3's. Maybe that's the more forward mids and highs, not that the 3's are lacking, just a different presentation. It is curious why this was a one year only model. Whatever, it makes them all the more unique and special. Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakecat Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 (I have retrofitted grills on a frame obtained from vintage_ar which look very smart but not half as good as the original 1970s "cool" foam grills when they were new.) Dave...have pics buried in here somewhere but I did the grills to match the 3a. Foam just doesn't do anything for me and is fragile so thought I would keep in the family. Renewing pics in case anyone is interested.......:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 Hi Lakecat, I see you went for linen oatmeal grills - that looks great. The cabinets look really good - oiled? What is the veneer? Walnut or teak? The original woofers is something I have to do to get that bass you describe. Cheers David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD70 Posted November 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 Lakecats are beautiful! A nice mix of classic and new! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakecat Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 1 hour ago, GD70 said: Lakecats are beautiful! A nice mix of classic and new! (Hi Lakecat, I see you went for linen oatmeal grills - that looks great. The cabinets look really good - oiled? What is the veneer? Walnut or teak? The original woofers is something I have to do to get that bass you describe. Cheers David) Thanks Glenn....I had some of the lambswool material here and saw the foam; if available; was going to be over a hundred bucks....so decision was more being cheap than anything!..lol. David...thanks. The grill material is the lambswool linen that is used for the AR3a. The veneer is the standard walnut that was sanded and stained with Howards....then two coats of satin poly sprayed. These speakers were a great discovery as I never even heard of the 12's until I saw these on CL. I did some research online and saw they were highly regarded so went to look at them. They were missing the grills and mids had the surround rot but woofers had been redone and cabinets were in great shape. Older guy had them that he had purchased new so original owner that was downsizing and moving. Best part...he had a $25 price tag on them!...:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 Hi Lakecat, I see you went for linen oatmeal grills - that looks great. The cabinets look really good - oiled? What is the veneer? Walnut or teak? The original woofers is something I have to do to get that bass you describe. Cheers David There hasn't been a pair of AR12s come on the market EBAY UK since mine popped up about 4 years ago. Quite a few AR2a, AR3a, AR4, AR6, AR92, AR90 and others but no others from the AR12 range to my knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD70 Posted November 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2017 Hi David, Being a one year wonder, I'm not surprised they don't show up in your neck of the woods. They rarely show up here in the states! You're lucky to have a pair! Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.