Are my AR2A speakers worth using in my home theater system?

[Pags2016]

I'm new to the Forum. I have a set of Acoustics Research AR2A speakers and am trying to determine if they're worth integrating into my home theater system. They still sound good, but they never have had great high frequency response. I have a good size room (15x25) and the home theater is also used for music.  

Does anyone have an opinion as to whether it's possible to upgrade the mid range and tweeter in these speakers, and if so, whether it is worth using these as front speakers in a home theater system? I currently have a Boston Acoustics VR10 center channel, so if I were to use the AR2A's I'd want to pair them with the right center channel, and also considering a power sub for the room, so if there are suggestions as to the center channel and power sub to pair with the AR2A's that would be great. Thanks.

[JKent]

Hi and welcome

IMHO the 2a would be great in your HT. Don't mess with them! You can't "improve" them by changing drivers.

OTOH, you COULD add a pair of supertweeters. The 2ax was sort of like a 2a with supertweeters.  edit: That's wrong, The 2a is a 2 with supertweeter. The 2ax is a 2a with a different tweeter (mid). Sorry.

Microstatic made add-on supertweeters for just this purpose. You can often find them on ebay, or you could add your own external supertweeters. Here's one of several threads: 

-Kent

[Steve F]

Aside from my usual caution about using priceless, irreplaceable classic AR speakers in an HT system with digital soundtracks playing potentially-destructive high-SPL special effects for which these speakers' designers could never have imagined in their wildest dreams, let me say this about center channel speakers:

First, I'm "retired" from the home speaker industry, so I have no financial interest in these products and I don't stand to gain or benefit one way or the other.

I worked at Boston Acoustics for 11 years. I conceived and co-designed the VR10. It was one of our best-selling products, a smash hit. With its 3-way design and vertically-aligned mid-tweeter config, it solved the problem of poor horizontal dispersion that plagued every single horizontally-arrayed M-T-M center speaker then on the market. Its aluminum VR tweeter with AMD was a superlative performer, ruler-flat--and I mean within +/- 1 dB or less from 4k-20k. BA's incredible in-house robotic assembly line was computerized and self-diagnostic, so we knew why each reject failed and the next run had fewer rejects and the run after that had fewer still, and so on. Unlike AR in the mid-60's were they had bins and bins of reject hand-built tweeters--about 30-40%--BA was producing drivers on a SOTA automated line with well under a .5% reject rate, each virtually perfect, within +/- .75dB or so.

But the VR10 is the wrong center channel speaker for you.

It's too sharp, too hard, too relentlessly-revealing to blend nicely with your vintage 2a's.

I left BA to work at Atlantic Technology, where I was also for about 10 years. Here, I had greater autonomy in designing and voicing our speakers than I did at BA, so I voiced them all a bit more like Classic ARs, since that was my preference. There's an excellent center channel, the 4200/4200e/4400 (all identical except for minor cosmetic differences), all THX-approved for FR , power-handling, low-distortion, wide-dispersion, etc. But these use silk-soft-dome tweeters and are a bit more "relaxed"-sounding than the VR10. They would be a better match to your 2a's. Here's the link http://www.atlantictechnology.com/index.php/products/floor-standing-bookshelf-speaker-systems/4400/

Again, I am not associated with either company any longer and I have no vested interest in making these comments. I'm very proud of them both, but for you and your 2a's, the AT's are a better match. As a matter of fact, the AT's are the answer for any "What do I use for a center with my Classic AR's in a home theater?" question. AR-2ax's, 5's 3's, 3a's, etc. Use the AT4200/4200e/4400. I voiced them specifically for that when I did them.

Steve F.

[Pags2016]

Thanks for the quick replies.  

The AR2A's haven't been used in over a decade, so after connecting both, it seems like the tweeter may not be working at all in one of the speakers, and the other speaker actually sounds much better.  

Given your feedback, I have a couple of questions:

1) Steve, it appears that you're not a fan of using these speakers in a demanding home theater environment.  Do you feel the speakers could be damaged?

2) If indeed the tweeter in one of the speakers is not working, it is possible to replace.  There is a repair shop nearby that does repair speakers, so I'm wondering what you think.

Great feedback as well on the center channel.  

Thanks again,

Pete

 

[JKent]

Hi Pete

In all probability your problem is the volume-level potentiometers. They are notoriously corrosion-prone. First try this: Rotate the level control clockwise/counterclockwise several times. You "may" scrape off some of the crud. Then, while listening, search for a good spot.

The other thing that goes in some old ARs is the capacitors, but NOT in yours. You have oil-filled caps that should last longer than the speakers.

Look for the link to "Restoring the AR-3a". The 3a is just the big brother to the 2a and the instructions there about cleaning or replacing pots applies. Best bet is new L-pads, available from partsexpress or madisound for about $5 each. This is a pretty simple DIY project and if you decide to do it look at the Resto guide and ask for help here.

Steve--Thanks for the lead on the AT center channel. I've been using an rbh MC414C, which is good but I keep wondering if there is a "better" center. btw, my HT is virtually all "vintage": Cizek front and rear, Kloss-designed CSW Ambience sides, modded RS Mini 7 front wide. The only relatively new pieces are the sub (CSW Newton) and the rbh center. No problems yet.......

-Kent

PS: Here's the Restoration guide: http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/library/acoustic_research/original_models_1954-1974/original_models_schematicss/restoring_the_ar-3a/

[DavidDru]

Great information there provided by Steve.  How great is it to have that level of background insight provided?!

+1 on JKents info on checking the tweeter.

Using Vintage speakers for home theater use is just something that would scare me.  I know HT/AVR receivers do a nice job distributing frequencies to the appropriate channels and most of the really nasty low rumble gets sent to the subwoofer, but it all still scares me.

Plus, there is vintage, and then there is vintage.  AR2's are pretty old and without the supertweeter added, I can't see them working out too well.  Seems like new gear is probably better suited for home theater use.  I personally don't use any of my vintage stuff in mine.  (Although I bet my Infinity RSii's would feel right at home front channel.)

[ra.ra]

No experience here with multi-channel home theaters, but you're getting some good advice here. Just want to be clear that the OP has the 3-way AR-2a (which includes the super-tweeter) as shown here in the middle between the earlier AR-2 (left) and the "early" AR-2ax (right). Also, the 2a seems to have used a variety of caps as shown in these crossovers. Basically, you just need to do a little more detective work to determine: type of caps; condition/level of potentiometer corrosion; and functionality of drivers. With all of these components working up to snuff, I'd think you'd be very satisfied with the level of HF performance. If you do have a bad tweeter, it might be worth looking into a repair, but I think the wires and suspension on these phenolic domes are all a little delicate. Other members on this site can offer more experienced feedback on this particular tweeter.

[Pags2016]

Thank you all for your feedback!

I'm hearing from more people that these speakers may just not cut it for HT.  One of the drawbacks on the 2A's from what I've heard is their mid range drivers are mediocre with poor clarity, making them not well suited for HT.  If I don't use them for HT then I don't have a need for them.

You've given me much to think about!!  

[JKent]

Quote

Just want to be clear that the OP has the 3-way AR-2a (which includes the super-tweeter) as shown here in the middle between the earlier AR-2 (left) and the "early" AR-2ax (right). 

oops! ra.ra is absolutely right and I feel like a dope because I'm sitting literally 3 feet from a pair of 2a's as I type 

I happen to think the 2a is an excellent speaker and would not agree that the mids are mediocre with poor clarity. BUT I do agree the old and delicate supertweeters are poorly suited for HT. No ferrofluid, and the foam suspension holding the phenolic dome can fail. You're probably better off selling the 2a's to someone who will love them and buying more modern speakers for your HT. Sorry I steered you in the wrong direction.

-Kent

[Pags2016]

Thanks again Kent!  Much appreciated.

[DavidDru]

See, I get to blame JKent as I followed his lead on this.  Thanks buddy!

[Pags2016]

Hi Steve,

Given your feedback I'm looking now at new L/R front speakers along with a center channel and sub.  The Atlantic 4400 center channel you mentioned does get very good reviews.  Considering I'm not going to use my AR2A's as my L/R front speakers, would you still recommend going with the Atlantic 4400 system for the center/front/sub, which will be about $2k.  This was a bit more than I was expecting to buy, so I'm wondering if you feel there are other systems that are a better value?

Thanks, Pete

[Steve F]

The Atlantic 4200/4200e and 4400 systems are all the same, save for some minor cosmetic differences. Their performance is identical. I think the 4200's were reviewed more often than the 4400, so you can probably find a lot of reviews of those. Really excellent speakers and we had some really good "old-timers" working with some incredibly talented younger engineers, producing speakers in the best of the classic traditions with modern capability. The 642e SB sub is one of the cleanest, quickest, best-sounding subs you'll ever come across. I'd peruse the various sources for used as well as new. You can no doubt score these for less than $2k.

The AR303/302/338 series also had some smaller bookshelves/sats and center (I forget the exact model numbers), and these were very much in the same mold as the AT's--clean, neutral, detailed but not harsh or overly-analytical, very musical.

I like the AT subs just about more than anyone's, however. Our sub guy had a way with amps, matching amps to drivers, creating filters and EQs that took into account cabinet resonance and eliminated it, really seamless, inaudible distortion-limiting circuitry. The 642e SB is one great sub, but it's kind of a beast at 19" cubed. Still, at $1200 list, we had it in our lab and measured 1/5th the distortion on it vs. a $4000 Velodyne and ours had 4dB greater output between 25-50Hz. The 422SB, 344SB and 444SB would be really good slightly smaller options. Again--just to be clear--I left AT in 2012 and have zero association with the company. None. Nada. Their stuff just happens to be flat-out great, that's all.

Steve F.

[Pags2016]

Thanks Steve.  I see Atlantic just released an LCR3 bookshelf speaker that can be used as left/right or center channel.  They're new so I'm not seeing any reviews on them yet, so wondering if you have an opinion on those.  Thanks.

[Steve F]

I've heard them and they're really excellent, in the Classic AR/AT tradition. They have a really nice grille/baffle design that minimizes diffraction, very clever.

But the best thing about them is that they use a 3/4-inch soft dome tweeter, like the 3a, 11 and 9.

3/4-inch! Wide HF dispersion and speaker/listener placement flexibility in the best tradition of the great AR speakers of old.

No one uses a 3/4-inch tweeter these days. But AT does. These are really good.

Steve F.

[Pags2016]

Great to know.  I was thinking of buying two LCR3's for my left and right.  I could also buy a third and use that one as the center channel, or I could keep the Boston Acoustics VR10 as my center.  Would the VR10 work well with the LCR3's?  

Another bookshelf speaker in the same price range as the LCR3 is the Polk TSi200.  Any thoughts on the Polk?

http://hometheaterreview.com/polk-tsi200-bookshelf-loudspeakers-reviewed/

thanks, Pete