New AR2 Owner

[Sumner]

Hello All,

Newbie here. I just inherited a pair of the first run AR2 yesterday. The speakers are in working order but I'm pretty sure the potentiometers are faulty as the mid and highs are veiled in comparison to the lows. I've been in contact with Mr Lagace regarding everything I'll need to get these functioning as they should.

I was able to remove the grills last night without hardly any damage to the cloth. Not sure if it's the correct way however it worked. First I removed the pesky staples. I used a tiny drill bit that fit in the mesh holes of the cloth and drilled into the particle board. I then screwed tiny hooks into the predrilled holes just into the particle board. Attaching a chain to the hook and with steady but not great force pulling up on the hook/grill until the particle board would separate slightly from the cabinet. After removing one or two more staples I missed!!  I did this in about 6 different locations until the grill practically fell out of the speaker housing.

And here's a couple pictures of what was waiting. I'm curious as to why one of the speakers surrounds has turned a rust color but the other has barely as discoloration? And why does it turn that color in the first place?

The rust colored woofer is starting to separate from the aluminum. I have a cart full of items on Ebay from Larry I'm going to order today and glue to fix that issue is one of them. I'm also replacing the caps and the potentiometers.

I look forward to learning all I can about the AR2 and AR line in general.

Here's a couple pics:

[ra.ra]

Those look like a really nice pair of AR-2's - - congrats, and welcome to this forum - - you've come to the right place!

The butyl sealer solution was originally concocted in a yellowish-clear formula, and at some point it was also batched up with the addition of lampblack to create the dark variety. I believe that the "rust" one merely represents the "clear" sealer as it has aged over the decades. Both of your woofers are original and appear to be in very fine shape. Performance is identical. Not sure what is the most appropriate glue to use to for re-attaching to the cast aluminum basket, but someone will chime in here. This is a fairly typical adhesive failure, but it is nothing too serious.

A few other thoughts. Before you order capacitors, you may wish to peek inside to see if you might have the original oil caps, which are normally held in high esteem. You'll need to remove a woofer to confirm this - - if this is your first time, work slowly and be extremely careful not to damage the woofer - - it may be held in tenaciously with the old black putty under the screw holes and perimeter frame. And yep, it's a near guarantee that the pots require repair or replacement.

And lastly, you might want to search the forum for an excellent post where SteveF describes in detail the evolution and history of the entire "2" series of AR loudspeakers. Ask questions, have fun, work slowly, and keep us posted! 

Edit: Do your speakers have one unfinished cabinet side? 

[Sumner]

24 minutes ago, ra.ra said:

Those look like a really nice pair of AR-2's - - congrats, and welcome to this forum - - you've come to the right place!

Thanks!

24 minutes ago, ra.ra said:

A few other thoughts. Before you order capacitors, you may wish to peek inside to see if you might have the original oil caps, which are normally held in high esteem. You'll need to remove a woofer to confirm this - - if this is your first time, work slowly and be extremely careful not to damage the woofer - - it may be held in tenaciously with the old black putty under the screw holes and perimeter frame. And yep, it's a near guarantee that the pots require repair or replacement.

Well I already ordered the capacitors. And I've already removed the woofer to have a peek to see which potentiometer I needed since the AR2 had a revision at some point. I have the early model where only 2 on the connections on the potentiometer are used.

24 minutes ago, ra.ra said:

And lastly, you might want to search the forum for an excellent post where SteveF describes in detail the evolution and history of the entire "2" series of AR loudspeakers. Ask questions, have fun, work slowly, and keep us posted! 

Edit: Do your speakers have one unfinished cabinet side? 

Yes they have one unfinished side. That's just because it's the side that is suppose to sit on the stand correct?

[JKent]

Welcome Sumner!

Even if you bought new caps I'd suggest you leave the originals. The metal cans are oil filled and considered by most to be excellent caps.

The AR-2 and its brethren were "bookshelf" speakers. The unfinished side was meant to be placed on the shelf. Also note the horizontal arrangement of the tweeters. Those speakers were not designed to stand upright.

Take your time, ask questions here, and keep us posted!

-Kent

[Sumner]

Ok the original caps will stay ?

 

I may have two right speakers. The unfinished side down puts the tweeters of both speakers on the listeners right hand side. Shouldn't the left speaker be opposite and the tweeters be on the listeners left?

im really liking them and I can tell the mids and tweets are only running about 60%. Can't wait to get the new potentiometers. I currently switch between studio 40s and studio 20s on my 2 channel set up. Pretty sure one set wil be sold soon. 

[ra.ra]

At the time of the model 2, AR was not selling any speakers as "pairs", and little, if any, emphasis was placed on mirror imaging. Your speakers are as much of a "pair" of AR-2's as you will ever find - - - the tweeters on the right hand side would be consistent with the view shown in the early AR literature, which does make specific mention of the unfinished cabinet underside. It appears that the double angled drivers are referred to as "tweeters" in the AR-2, but these identical drivers become known as "mid-range units" when used in the AR-2a with its additional "super-tweeter". On the literature page, be sure to make note of the glowing remarks from that stalwart of audio reviews, the Winnipeg Free Press .

Do let us know if you have the wax caps or metal caps, which might look like these.   

 

[stupidhead]

welcome and congrats sumner.

[Sumner]

After searching and searching google images I finally came across a picture of some caps very similar to mine although mine are stacked together. The picture is actually from a post here on classic speakers. And yes mine are metal also.

Something a little odd or maybe it was just me getting accustomed to these speakers. After a few hours of listening last night they midrange and high seemed to start waking up. I'm sure I wasn't hallucinating. Do these caps need to warm up for a bit like my Hafler amp?

Here's the pic of the similar caps:

 

[ra.ra]

FYI, attached here are two versions of the schematic for the AR-2, which show, as you have mentioned, only two wire connections at the pot. The hand drawn version incorrectly lists the pot as 10 ohms; and the AS-2 (Heathkit's re-packaging of AR's identical product) schematic is helpful since it includes the inductor value.

[Sumner]

Opened the other one this evening and took a couple pics of the pot, crossover and caps for anyone interested.

 

 

[ra.ra]

Interesting to see that of the three posts showing an AR-2 crossover, only one includes the familiar Aetna-Pollak pot. Thx for posting.

[Sumner]

Hope it's ok I'm posting all these pics. If not, let me know and I'll delete them.

Here's one of the cabinets and both removed grills. The other cabinet is just about as bad of shape as this one. Need to decide what I want to do as far as refinishing. I'll have to take it down to bare wood if so since they're lacquered.

 

Serial Numbers. The first one starts with B. The second one I'm almost positive is an E but it could be a worn and weather B. But the serifs don't match. ??

 

 

 

If you look at the bottom left of the bottom grill in this picture you can see how the fabric wasn't stretched

as far in that one area. I assume the speaker came new like this.

 

 

This is the unfinished side.

 

 

[Sumner]

I was curious if a person can tell what year these were made by the serial number?

 

Thanks

Darin

[ra.ra]

Someone will probably chime in here, but if you find no dates anywhere (on back of drivers?), one very rough approximation for some of these very early models is to look at the Thorndike St. address on the paper label. If it shows a two-digit postal zone instead of a five-digit zip code, date of production might be 1963 or earlier.

[owlsplace]

Yes, welcome to AR Land.

Never worked on 2's but if I had to guess I'd say these are from 1962. Need RoyC or TomT to chime in on that.

The "B" prefix on the serial number indicates it was the second model series produced by AR -- AR-1 was first, AR-3 was third, etc.

Not sure if the dielectric needs to reform on old oil caps but it is interesting that you notice the change in sound. I wouldn't expect these to sound very bright at any rate due to the nature of the design and age of the drivers. AR did offer a mod kit for these at one point to make them into 2a's IIRC.

A word to the wise, AR speakers are like Lay's potato chips ...

To illustrate, here are a few of TomT's speakers:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/library/acoustic_research/special_sections/ar_pictures/tom_tysons_ar_collection.html

Here is a link to an older post on your tweeter pots: http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?/topic/1887-ar-pots-l-pads-ar-2/&do=findComment&comment=60768

Roger

[Sumner]

The address  on the label reads:

Acoustic Research Inc.

24 Thorndike St

Cambridge, 41 Mass

I take it the 41 in the zip?

I received my new pots today but won't be installing those for a another day or two. I've been busy. I just couldn't stand the scratches and such so I went in head first. No stain, just clear coat after stripping old varnish.

Here's on getting ready for clear.

 

Here's the other waiting to dry for a final light sanding and final clear.

 

 

 

[samberger0357]

Gorgeous. Great job. What are you driving them with?

[ra.ra]

Those look fantastic - - nice work - - you're going to have a terrific pair of speakers.

About the labels, the two-digit "41" is a USPS postal zone which preceded the establishment of five-digit zip codes, so it's pretty safe to consider yours from the early 60's but I wouldn't pretend to know more precisely where a 26XXX s/n is situated during these years. Roger is correct about the letter prefix, but the change of tweeter converted the AR-2 to an AR2x, as shown in this literature. (The 2a converts to a 2ax ........ it's all so confusing .)

 

[VintageMan]

Nice work and welcome!

Can't wait to see the final result on those cabinets.

The fabric on the fronts look OK to me and I would not replace them if I were you.

[Steve F]

From my post almost exactly 13 years ago, 31 March, 2003. This is how AR did their model numbering scheme. It's not confusing, at least not from 1954-1973. So if you've been a long-time reader of my posts, I've covered almost every historical aspect of AR, at some point.

March 31, 2003:

The subject of AR’s early product naming scheme has always been a focal point of confusion and fascination for audio historians. Any marketing person can tell you that there are two basic ways to name products: You can use alphanumeric designations or actual names. Your products can be named the Audi A4, A6, Acura 3.2 TL, Pontiac 6000, or you can call your products things like Accord, Celebrity, Trinitron, Dustbuster, etc.

If you’ve settled on the alphanumeric way of doing things, you then have several more choices to make. The products can be named in ascending or descending order of price/performance, they can be named so the model number gives a description of the product’s features (for example, the Panasonic CT-27R was a 27-inch Color Television with Remote control), or the products can be named chronologically, with each new model given a higher number. This last method is the way AR named their original products.

In addition, AR had a consistent, intentional method by which they would add an "a" or "x" suffix to their original model numbers. It held true right up until 1974, which, not coincidentally, is when AR’s marketing and product line offerings went awry.

So, in a nutshell, here it is:

- An ‘x’ suffix designated a change concerning a cone mid or high frequency driver.

- An ‘a’ suffix designated a change concerning a dome mid or high frequency driver.

The AR-3 went to the AR-3a—changes in the dome drivers, from 2-inch and 1 3/8-inch to 1 1/2-inch and 3/4-inch.

The AR-2 went to the 2a—the 1 3/8-inch dome tweeter was added.

The AR-2 became the 2x—the dual 5-inch cones were replaced with the single 3 1/2-inch cone

The AR-4 became the 4x—the 3 1/2-inch cone was replaced with the 2 1/2-inch cone.

The AR-1 became the 1x—the 8-inch cone was replaced with the 2 1/2-inch cone.

The AR-2a became the 2ax—the dual 5-inch cones were replaced with the single 3 1/2-inch cone

(The big exception to this whole thing was, of course, the AR-2 series. Early 2ax’s used the 3-style grille cloth and logo—a rectangular brass logo in one corner that had "AR" on it, and the brass "2" in the other corner. Later 2ax’s, like mine, had a new woofer, similar to the AR-5 woofer, the new 3/4-inch tweeter replacing the old 1 3/8-inch fried egg, new crossover frequencies of 1400 and 5000Hz, compared to 2000 and 7500Hz, new white linen grille cloth, and the newer style logo with the red debossed "AR-2ax" lettering. The 2x also went from "old" to "new" with the same changes to the grille and logo, the upgrading from the 3 1/2-inch driver to the 2 1/2-inch driver, and the crossover change from 2000 to 1200Hz. But AR left these model numbers alone, for some reason.

I remember speaking to Roy Allison and asking him, when the 4’s and 2x’s 3 1/2-inch drivers were being upgraded to the new 2 1/2-inch unit, why was the 3 1/2-inch driver left in the 2ax? Certainly the new 2 1/2-inch driver was superior—that was the whole reason for using it in the other two speakers—so why was it left in the 2ax? He never gave me a clear answer, saying something along the lines of, "Yes, all things being equal, it would be better to use the new driver with a lower woofer-to-midrange crossover point. However, there are literally dozens of things that are NOT equal in the real world. In any event, the difference between 1200 and 1400Hz would not be considered significant." I have a suspicion that the marketing people didn’t feel comfortable changing all the drivers from the old 2ax to the new 2ax and keeping the same model number. And marketing probably wanted to keep the 2ax designation because by that time, it had some worthwhile marketplace equity. These kinds of things do happen inside companies "in the real world", especially when opposing strong personalities are involved.)

But for the most part, the model-numbering scheme was very consistent, very repeatable. So when I heard about the upcoming "AR-4xa" in 1974, I was excited. My dad had 4x’s, and we thought that the 4xa was going to replace the 2 1/2-inch cone tweeter with a new DOME tweeter—an "a" designation indicating a change involving a dome driver— suitable for use in two-way systems. "I bet it’s a 1 1/2-inch dome, with a low enough resonance to use down to around 1500Hz," I said to my father. He wondered if AR would offer a factory upgrade for the 4x, the way there had been for the 3 to the 3a, or the 2 to 2x, and 2a to 2ax.

But much to our disappointment, the 4xa did not have a dome tweeter. It had the 1 1/4-inch CONE tweeter from the AR-6. In retrospect, maybe we should have figured out that it would use the 6’s tweeter. After all, how could a lower-priced model have a better tweeter than the best two-way (the AR-6) in the line? Anyway, from this point on, AR’s model numbering scheme went out the proverbial window, and AR entered an almost two-year dark period of marketing ineptitude that persisted until the new line, headed by the 10 and 11, was introduced in 1975. Think of it: AR had three 8-inch, two-way models in the line (the AR-6, AR-4xa, and AR-7), all with the same tweeter and very little to distinguish between them. Each one a good speaker, to be sure, but it was unquestionably faulty marketing and product planning.

AR finally did come out with 8-inch two way speakers with dome tweeters (first the AR-16, followed by the AR-15), but they continued to clutter up the line and dissipate their resources with too many 8-inch two-ways: the AR-7 became the AR-18 (a big success), the AR-4xa became the AR-17 (a forgotten, unnecessary speaker).

So the AR-4xa was the first AR speaker to break with the original meaning of the "a" and "x" model numbering format, and 4xa’s introduction marked the end of the "old" AR.

Steve F.

[DavidDru]

Summer, is there a date/inspection stamp on the inside of the cabinet on one of the sides?  I know later models, including my 3's had a stamp that looked like this to tell us when they were put together.

 

Steve, so how old were you when you said this to your dad?  ""I bet it’s a 1 1/2-inch dome, with a low enough resonance to use down to around 1500Hz," I said to my father. "

[Sumner]

11 hours ago, samberger0357 said:

Gorgeous. Great job. What are you driving them with?

That's a loaded question! I rotate gear quite often. But to start off I'll be using my Musical Concepts modified Hafler 220 and 101 Preamp. That could change. I initially tested them on a Denon PMA-920 and a Yamaha RX-950

 

11 minutes ago, Steve F said:

 

So, in a nutshell, here it is:

- An ‘x’ suffix designated a change concerning a cone mid or high frequency driver.

- An ‘a’ suffix designated a change concerning a dome mid or high frequency driver.

The AR-3 went to the AR-3a—changes in the dome drivers, from 2-inch and 1 3/8-inch to 1 1/2-inch and 3/4-inch.

The AR-2 went to the 2a—the 1 3/8-inch dome tweeter was added.

The AR-2 became the 2x—the dual 5-inch cones were replaced with the single 3 1/2-inch cone

The AR-4 became the 4x—the 3 1/2-inch cone was replaced with the 2 1/2-inch cone.

The AR-1 became the 1x—the 8-inch cone was replaced with the 2 1/2-inch cone.

The AR-2a became the 2ax—the dual 5-inch cones were replaced with the single 3 1/2-inch cone

(The big exception to this whole thing was, of course, the AR-2 series. Early 2ax’s used the 3-style grille cloth and logo—a rectangular brass logo in one corner that had "AR" on it, and the brass "2" in the other corner. Later 2ax’s, like mine, had a new woofer, similar to the AR-5 woofer, the new 3/4-inch tweeter replacing the old 1 3/8-inch fried egg, new crossover frequencies of 1400 and 5000Hz, compared to 2000 and 7500Hz, new white linen grille cloth, and the newer style logo with the red debossed "AR-2ax" lettering. The 2x also went from "old" to "new" with the same changes to the grille and logo, the upgrading from the 3 1/2-inch driver to the 2 1/2-inch driver, and the crossover change from 2000 to 1200Hz. But AR left these model numbers alone, for some reason.

Steve F.

Thanks you Steve. Impressive to say the least.

Do you happen to know if they discontinued the AR-2 when the AR-2a came out? Or maybe what year the original AR-2 was discontinued.

From another post I found of your from Dec 2008 you stated the AR-2a come out around 1960. If they discontinued the AR-2 at that time I guess that would date mine to the late 1950s.

Thanks

Darin

[owlsplace]

3 minutes ago, Sumner said:

Do you happen to know if they discontinued the AR-2 when the AR-2a came out? Or maybe what year the original AR-2 was discontinued.

From another post I found of your from Dec 2008 you stated the AR-2a come out around 1960. If they discontinued the AR-2 at that time I guess that would date mine to the late 1950s.

Here is the current dating scheme: http://www.aphenos.net/electronics/speakers/klh/all_ar.htm

Roger

[Sumner]

5 minutes ago, owlsplace said:

Here is the current dating scheme: http://www.aphenos.net/electronics/speakers/klh/all_ar.htm

Roger

Thank you Roger!

Darin

[owlsplace]

52 minutes ago, Steve F said:

Think of it: AR had three 8-inch, two-way models in the line (the AR-6, AR-4xa, and AR-7), all with the same tweeter and very little to distinguish between them. Each one a good speaker, to be sure, but it was unquestionably faulty marketing and product planning.

Forgot to mention the nefarious AR-8

Well, it had a 10-inch woofer so ...

Roger