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HK Citation II for AR 3s. Couple ?s.


stupidhead

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10 hours ago, owlsplace said:

Thanks Kimmo for that link. It is hard to believe that I was never acquainted with Hegeman's work.

It would be interesting to know if any fellow memebers do have more information about Hegeman´s work. It seems that he did design work for H/K till something like 1969. He was propably not anymore responsible for design of Citation 11 and 12 but rare Ciatation 13 speaker may be somehow related to Hegeman. He did also work for Dynaco and propably for many other companies as well as for his own company. He did design Hapi preamp in late 70´s and he passed away in mid 80´s.

In 1961 review Hegemans thoughts about amplifier design releated mesured information and purely subjective aural information is so sound minded that it hard to think that these ideas are over 50 years old. He was also cited for inventing dome teweeter. I do not know how this innovation was actually made, but maybe Tom does have better understanding for this.

David... How is your Citation 1 working?

I am enclosing some pics about H/K 630 receiver I bought some time ago. It is fairly clean and quite original in working condition. Only few defective bulbs, but needs recap in the future.  I used to have H/K 930 in mid 70´s... 630 is little brother of 930 in this early 70´s H/K twin power line.

 

Kimmo

New_1_DSCF1244.JPG

New_1_DSCF1250.JPG

New_1_DSCF1255.JPG

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Hey Geoff!

Your house project is looking great! We were in a similar state a couple years ago adding an 18 X 22 addition to the back of the house removing 2/3's of the back of the house to the new room. I keep my KLH Fives there along the long wall about 20 feet apart. The sound stage is amazing with this setup. I have to try the 3's there, don't know what I'm waiting for!

That Citation will be awesome and congrats to you.  Keep the remodeling pisc coming!

Glenn

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2 hours ago, iso said:

It would be interesting to know if any fellow memebers do have more information about Hegeman´s work. It seems that he did design work for H/K till something like 1969. He was propably not anymore responsible for design of Citation 11 and 12 but rare Ciatation 13 speaker may be somehow related to Hegeman. He did also work for Dynaco and propably for many other companies as well as for his own company. He did design Hapi preamp in late 70´s and he passed away in mid 80´s.

In 1961 review Hegemans thoughts about amplifier design releated mesured information and purely subjective aural information is so sound minded that it hard to think that these ideas are over 50 years old. He was also cited for inventing dome teweeter. I do not know how this innovation was actually made, but maybe Tom does have better understanding for this.....

Yes, I think all those characters back in the 50's and 60's were playing off each other in much the same way Baroque composers did.

Something else to keep my eye out for.

Roger

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Kimmo,

The Citation 1 will be getting a complete restoration.  I purchased it in an all original state knowing it would need all the usual replacements and upgrades.  Fortunately I got it for a very fair price.  It works now but has plenty of noise.  I am currently working on cleaning up the exterior a bit and determining just what I want to do, using Jim McShane and Don Sachs to guide me through it.  Like Geoff did with the Citation II, I will probably just send it to Don to have the work done.  This is too iconic a piece for me to mess up. (Will find a wood case too).

My intent is to have this in command of a system where I can rotate my AR3's and Apogee Slant 6's.  Amp to be determined, but the ultimate goal will be something like the Citation II.  I think that would be a killer system in my mid size lounge.

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David

This sounds good plan... Citation 1 is quite complex and there are many hard to replace switches in the circuity, so it is wise to use experienced tech for rebuild. I suppose best upgrade is to be faithfull to the original...

All the best to you and Citation 1

Kimmo

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On 2/10/2016 at 4:17 AM, iso said:

It would be interesting to know if any fellow memebers do have more information about Hegeman´s work. ..

I was looking at a Rectilinear diver on the auction site that had a distinctly AR look to it and it led me to more of Stu's work:

"It took nearly two decades for Hegeman's wide-band principle to be recognized as essential for low-distortion amplifiers. Today, nearly all makers of high-quality audio amplifiers adhere to it, at least to some degree. Harman-Kardon, the company for which the original research was done, has refined this principle in the current models of its exemplary Citation Series."

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/07/29/arts/sound-pioneering-audio-design-to-a-consistently-musical-beat.html

Roger

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You can't submit empty content here. Please enter some content and try again.  

oops... is this any better?

Kimmo

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Here is link to 1970-4 issue of High Fidelity about Hegeman´s pre- and poweramp.http://www.americanradiohistory.com/hd2/IDX-Audio/Archive-High-Fidelity-IDX/IDX/60s/High-Fidelity-1970-04-OCR-Page-0040.pdf#search=%22harman kardon%22

Kimmo

 

 

 

 

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I tried editing... deleting post worked... but I could not figure how to edit quote... they just keep going on and on...any advice?

Kimmo

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58 minutes ago, iso said:

I tried editing... but I could not figure how to edit quote... they just keep going on and on...any advice? see below

Kimmo

Hi Kimmo,

I have effectively "edit"ed your quote above by clicking in the body of the quote and drop cursor where you want to edit. Backspace to remove text, type to add. I have also experienced different abilities of editing depending on browser used, this edit was done using mozilla browser.

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  • 4 months later...

 

Introducing Deuce-zilla.

Currently using a fully reworked Marantz 2230 as pre for now. A proper pre will come in the future but I am telling you my 5s have never sounded so full and rich. In fact I needed to back off the mid pot to achieve the right sound.

and it looks very cool

 

glowing.JPG

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Thanx folks, and I am still pinching myself to make sure it is not a dream. I figured a little commentary would be in order.

So last Fall when this quest really started, as noted earlier I was in communication with Don Sachs who is McShane's tech during the whole thing. At the end of the day he (Don) made me an offer to procure his personal amp, Deuce-zilla. I am not all that versed on this stuff, and he rattled off all sorts of mods etc. that has been done to this beast. Here is a snippet of info for example...

Yes, I will wager that my citation II amp IS the best sounding one in the world.  It has even more decoupling capacitance in the power supply than the McShane level II power supply.   Of course it has the CCS and all the best parts.  It also has a time delay board that turns on the high voltage after 20 seconds so the tube filaments are heating before the tubes see high voltage.  Makes tubes last longer.  My original quad of Gold Lions is probably 4 years old and work great.  I don’t install them in other amps because I don’t know how reliable that board is.  However, it has been in the amp for 5 years and never had an issue.  If it goes another year or two then I will probably start putting them in for customers.  It is about a $35 board.   I also spent time getting and IEC power connector in there so I can use a big, fancy power cord.  It also has 6 volt regulated DC filaments on the two input tubes. 

When I realized the unique nature of this piece I couldn't resist. He set the machine up with a new quad of Gold Lions and I am beside myself with joy. I realize the 2230 is not really a proper pre for this for the long term, but it still sounds mighty fine.

The house project continues slowly, in the final stages of wiring and then things will happen pretty quickly. We have finally decided on light fixture style, at least for a couple placements, and the hood for the Viking (did I tell you I lucked into a 6 burner dual fuel Viking) has been a real debate, but choices are narrowed and will likely go with a Viking hood and vent for a bunch of reasons.

Again, thanx for the support and will keep you posted.

Geoff

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Geoff

I am glad to hear that you are happy with your first tube amp. Something like Citation I or IV might be better matching preamp for it... but if you are going to experiment with different amplifiers like I fear... you will find out that there are no perfect all round amplifiers... the are just amplifiers that are different. Some amplifiers are good match with certain kind of speakers and certain kind of recordings... other amplifiers may have their strong points elsewhere and there are amps that are not good at all.  There is simply no straight wire with gain. It is myth that has not been archived yet.  Good thing is that you have not been fooled to think that impressive power or distorting figures are not ones to look first, when choosing amplifier.

Kimmo

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Geoff,

While my Citation I is in the que for a Sachs/McShane restoration I have been using a Chinese Xiang Sheng 728A tube preamp.  It has been very very impressive and I was able to get into it with upgraded tubes for less than $300 used.  If you are looking for a tube preamp and are not ready to drop another big sum ($1500-$200) on a matching Citation Pre, this might be a way to go.  It may just be hyperbole, but apparently the designer tried to mimic the design of the famous Marantz 7.

No phono section though.

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Hi folks,

Yes Kimmo, I will likely "experiment" a little with amps, mainly because I just don't currently have the resources to buy a proper pre amp. I am happy enough for now with the 2230 in place and look forward to procuring a good match for the Deuce.

David, thanx for the Xiang Sheng option idea, certainly seems affordable enough but no phono is a bummer. A quick search reveals it to be readily available from China and I will consider it to be an option for the mean time. Good luck with Don on the Citation I pre and look forward to your observations and pics.

Geoff

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Here's a thought out of left field: You're in southern NH. There is a well-regarded but little-known solid state pre from southern NH (Rindge). Back in the '80s I lusted after the DB-1A (and have one now). They are minimalist design, with an excellent phono section. Don't show up that often on the used market but sometimes they do. The original had a solid walnut cabinet, later ones were slightly wider, with a solid oak cab. There were upgrades along the way. There is also a separate tone control unit.

http://www.dbsystemsaudio.com/

The owner, David Hadaway, is president of the Boston Audio Society and he still sells and services new and used DB products (although a recent email to hm went unanswered). New ones, with the outboard power supply are $1200 but used ones can be had for under $500.

I like mine.

-Kent

DB 1B.jpg

DB1a.jpg

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Kent, I like the way you think (again). I checked the bay and there is one up right now without the wood case.

Watching and lurking for a week and see where it goes.....maybe back to NH.

I love this forum

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