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Oil for speaker cabinets


DavidR

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Agree with several of you about the many excellent bio-based products which are available today, some of which are perfectly fine as a wipe-on application for simple wood cabinet maintenance. A recent favorite in our household for a variety of uses is virgin coconut oil, but as with many of these edible plant oil extracts - - citrus, olive, linseed (flax), soy, etc. - - I remain curious about which ones may be susceptible to rancidity.



Also fully agree with genek about the need for compatibility of new and existing finishes - - in particular, the differences of penetrating vs. topical approaches. And yes, David's concern about health issues does add a new twist, and it makes me wonder if affected people might have adverse reactions to minor sawdust as a result of sanding the ubiquitous walnut veneer.

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If your cabinets don't need refinishing, I'd look at some of the biobased cleaners and polishes. The cleaners are generally based on orange oil or coconut soap and the polishes are blends of plant oils and beeswax.

My wife uses Pledge wood finisher/retorer with Orange Oil. I had hesistated to use that because...........well, its Pledge. I'll read the ingredients.

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If your furniture is real wood, avoid using anything that has an ingredient whose name ends in "cone." There are removers you can apply to old wood to strip silicones, but unfortunately the only way to know you've gotten them all out is when you apply finish and don't see any fisheye.

Sanding dust from old, finished wood is always something you want to avoid inhaling. There 's the wood itself plus the residue from everything that's been put on or in it over the years.

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No, I haven't had to strip anything for years now. Mostly, I just try to figure out what the original finish is and refresh it, either just by cleaning or by cleaning and refreshing with more of the same.

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The following statement was made back in post #9, with regards to BLO: "Watco Satin Oil is very similar and is very easy to apply." When Watco is affordable, easy-to-use, a time-tested favorite here on this site, and readily available at every decent hardware store, why wouldn't this be a perfectly satisfactory first choice for someone unfamiliar with the many products named here?

Just like the endless debate on capacitors, we're over-thinking this a bit with a whole lot of armchair chemistry. Most probably, all of these products can be used with great success - - you just need to roll up your sleeves and find a product/process that yields the results you're after based on the skills you possess.

I have been delighted to learn about the Howard's products via this forum, and they surely have their place in restoration efforts, particularly the solvent-based restore-a-finish (RAF). For finishing, my own comfort and minimal skill level seems to be served well using Watco oil products, as shown in the top two speaker pairs, and it is largely inconsequential to me if this qualifies as an "oil finish" or a "finishing oil". I use either (or both) the natural and regular walnut oil shades, and I often tend to swab in a dab of mahogany Minwax stain since I strongly prefer the reddish hue exhibited in some walnut veneer flitches. After drying, if the sheen remains a bit glossy, I will buff it down lightly with very fine bronze wool. Subsequent applications should not be based on any calendar timeframe, but instead on the particulars of your home's environment and your own penchant for spit-shine housekeeping of wooden furniture. In the simplest scenario, sometimes all you might need is a little polish, buff or wax with no abrasives or oil involved at all.

attachicon.gifWatco finish.jpg

Those speakers in the photo look wonderful!

As I was lightly wiping down my AR2ax speakers with a slightly damp cloth I noticed that the cloth was turning brown, almost like the stain was rubbing off. I do not think this to be normal. Or is it?

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Thx, glenz - - my method is only one way to skin the cat and simply an approach that has been satisfactory for me, using readily available products and a limited skill/knowledge of wood finishing. Not to derail the thread on the cab finish, but on the grille cloth, it is quite normal for these to often show significantly discoloration due to aging from various types of atmospheric exposure, or even water staining. Posting pics of your situation would be helpful in receiving better advice, and it might even be better located in the following thread about this issue where many experienced voices have chimed in.

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=7888&hl=

To David's question about paint strippers, no helpful advice from here with soy-based products but I do recall your positive experience on the KLH project. Last time I tried any of the less toxic stripping products, I believe it was citrus-based and just did not have the necessary strength for the particular project I was working on at that time. I suspect that the product choices available these days, like your soy stripper, are far better performers.

To genek's comment - - agreed, there can be lots of nasties to avoid inhaling, but with David's mention of severe nut allergies, I was even thinking about skin contact with walnut sawdust.

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I'm not informed enough about allergies to know if a nut allergy translates to an allergy to other parts of the tree, such as wood or foliage. But in DavidR's case, I'd say better safe than sorry and keep the work away from anywhere his child might encounter any of it.

Stain should not wipe off with just a damp cloth, not even a water-based one. This could just be dirt (if the speakers were ever in a smoking environment, tobacco tar is very brownish), or it could be an indication that something is causing the finish to break down. This breakdown is called chalking, but I've only ever seen it happen on outdoor surfaces, never on indoor wood finishes.

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I went looking for some 'natural oil' products.

The Orange-Glo brand contains kerosene.

I did not find Watco.

Here is the MSDS for Watco (not sure I wanted to know :) )

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/msds/watco-danish-oil-MSDS.pdf

Looks like there is a low VOC version of Watco which I have not encountered before:

http://www.rustoleum.com/~/media/DigitalEncyclopedia/Documents/RustoleumUSA/TDS/English/CBG/Watco/WAT-06_Watco_Danish_Oil_350_VOC.ashx

Here is the MSDS for BLO (may become my preferred chioce)

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImages/1b/1b3b4036-2cf6-480b-a24f-10d954b988d2.pdf

Interesting note from the web: "Linseed oil exposed to the air can turn dark, even black, if exposed to a mild acid like vinegar (contained in some cleaners). The shellac is used to seal the oil and add its own color. Shellac is a good choice over linseed oil because it will adhere well even if the oil isn't fully cured. - See more at: http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Shellac_and_Linseed_Oil_Finishes.html#sthash.gK6zGmGy.dpuf

Roger

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Hi david,

I've used Tung , Walnut, Danish (based on Tung oil) , Linseed , and coconut oil. The ones I prefer the most are, coconut, Tung, and Linseed oil.

Most of what are sold today as refinishing oil, are full of chemicals. This also include most of what is sold under the name of Tung oil. A few places will sell you pure Tung oil.

Furniture polish on the other hand, is really toxic. It contains phenol or/and nitrobenzene which are all damaging to your health.

If I want something that is very easy to apply, and safe, I will use coconut oil paste, and sometime coconut oil paste mixed with beeswax, although using this mixture, will prevent you from ever using oil in the future..

Although coconut oil/paste is technically a tree nut, its protein is found in the meat of the coconut, and not in the oil.

If you decide to investigate this product, you should still consult your doctor, even if everybody says that coconut oil is entirely different from tree nuts oil products, Tung Walnut, etc...

Lee Valley is a very good place to find speciality products, and knowledgeable people.

http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?cat=1,190&p=42942

André

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Hi david,

I've used Tung , Walnut, Danish (based on Tung oil) , Linseed , and coconut oil. The ones I prefer the most are, coconut, Tung, and Linseed oil.

Most of what are sold today as refinishing oil, are full of chemicals. This also include most of what is sold under the name of Tung oil. A few places will sell you pure Tung oil.

Furniture polish on the other hand, is really toxic. It contains phenol or/and nitrobenzene which are all damaging to your health.

...

http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?cat=1,190&p=42942

André

Thanks for the link, André. Looks like we have similar tastes.

Roger

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Pure tung oil all by itself was originally used in China (where the tung tree comes from) to waterproof the hulls of boats. It was easy to renew because it never hardened.

The problem with using it as a wood finish is that it does not polymerize by itself. It needs to be blended with a drier. There's a citrus based mineral spirit substitute that does the job without petroleum based chemicals.

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Tung oil is a non-toxic, hard-curing oil that forms an elastic film resistant to abrasion and moisture.

Pure Tung oil has qualities that I like, although it will not be the best oil for David to use due to very potential risks of allergies it represent to his son.

As opposed to popular beliefs, pure tung ol will harden (cure) by itself, although more slowly.

So,

It harden (cure) more slowly,

Retain some flexibility when hardened, (will not crack in the future)

Does't yellow,

Does't go rancid,

Does't mildew, and

Has waterproofing qualities,

You can definitly buy partially polymerized tung oil, which does harden faster. Lots of people will prefer tung oil with additives (solvents).

Personnaly, I prefer this oil without additives.

André

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100% pure, unthinned tung oil will take anywhere from two to three weeks to fully harden in air (as a boat hull sealer it never did because the hulls were immersed in water and the oil only hardens when it's exposed to air). And you need to have a place for it to cure where it won't end up with dust or other airborne crud sticking to it. Hardly anyone is going to have the time and facilities required to produce a decent finish without accelerating the curing process.

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Salut André ,

De longue date depuis que je l'ai vu que vous postez. Espérons que tout va bien avec vous et la famille .

Tout progrès sur les AR91 de ?

Lots of great replies in this thread. At least I know the differences and the pluses and minuses of each product.

Went to Home Depot today and they had the typical products. The Old English was Lemon Oil and the msds states its all mineral oil. If that goes on over any wood that had the Pledge that contains the silicone material will it cause 'fish eye'?

old english lemon oil.pdf

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I wouldn't expect it. Fisheye commonly happens when you apply a topcoating finish like varnish or lacquer over silicone. A mineral oil polish isn't a finish. You may see a few patches where the oil doesn't soak into the wood as much and seems wetter, but you'll just rub those down.

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I wouldn't expect it. Fisheye commonly happens when you apply a topcoating finish like varnish or lacquer over silicone. A mineral oil polish isn't a finish. You may see a few patches where the oil doesn't soak into the wood as much and seems wetter, but you'll just rub those down.

Good to know because my son put some on the TSW610's I gave him.

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Hi genek,

You are correct, it does takes a while to cure when one use pure Tung oil. The last time I did used the product on a pair of Dynaco, 10 to 15 days of curing time where required between applications, and having done three of them, I agree with you, this product is not for everybody.

But for me, I've the place, and time on my hands to use it this way, plus it makes a better finish.

André

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Salut André ,

De longue date depuis que je l'ai vu que vous postez. Espérons que tout va bien avec vous et la famille .

Tout progrès sur les AR91 de ?

Lots of great replies in this thread. At least I know the differences and the pluses and minuses of each product.

Went to Home Depot today and they had the typical products. The Old English was Lemon Oil and the msds states its all mineral oil. If that goes on over any wood that had the Pledge that contains the silicone material will it cause 'fish eye'?

Salut David,

Tout va bien chez moi, merci. Ma femme se porte très bien maintenant.

I've already started on the PSB, the AR-18, and will do two pairs of Energy ESM-2 in the near future, before attempting the AR-91. So far, so good on the PSB and the 18. The re-foaming went very well, and also did a very clean job. I already have all the suspensions for a while now, but will need to contact Rick Cobb again to get the one for the Energy.

As for the capacitors, I'll use the NPE for higher values, and PP for the tweeter, and mid.

Which one ?? I've not decided yet, I'm still reading what you guys been discussing for a while now on capacitors values, type, etc...

André

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Well, I think we have beaten the capacitor issue to death. Seems if you have an ordinary, everyday hand held capacitor meter it will not accurately measure the cap value on NPE's as it uses a very low Hz signal. If I understand it correctly an NPE will increase in capacitance when the signal goes down (in Hz) and will decrease in capacitance when the signal goes up. I have some 150uF and 200uF NPE caps that are useless to me as I have no way of knowing what value they really are. I would suggest Bennic NPE's if you are going that route and I really like Dayton PP. They consistantly come spot on and same value, or oh so close, for each pair.

Good Luck.

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Been seeing some interesting writeups on the use of hemp seed oil as a wood finish. Not quite as durable as tung, but naturally thinner and cures in half the time, without the need for other ingredients. Will have to give it a try sometime.

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Been seeing some interesting writeups on the use of hemp seed oil as a wood finish. Not quite as durable as tung, but naturally thinner and cures in half the time, without the need for other ingredients. Will have to give it a try sometime.

And inhaling those hemp fumes................far out! ;)

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