der Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 This seems to be a dumb question but one I have to ask the resident experts. While I've searched the web I've not come up with a convincing answer. On AR speakers, AR3, AR3a, etc. (the original line) which speaker terminals are which? Is terminal 1 negative or positive? I long ago lost any literature that came with my speakers. I believe that number 1 is negative and 2 is positive. I also believe I had them reversed for a long time. der Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidR Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 I looked up a xover schematic for an AR3. It looks like the 1 is neg and 2 is pos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Posted March 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 Thank you for your reply. You know, with raising a family and all the other distractions in younger life my audio hobby took a decidedly back seat for many years. I had my system set up but rarely listened. I no longer had any paperwork and apparently old age had taken over and I couldn't quite remember the proper hookup. I was pretty certain that 1 was negative and 2 positive so when I looked recently and found I had it reversed I began to wonder. der Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ra.ra Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 From the rear label instructions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidDru Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 From the rear label instructions.wiring instruction.jpgI always thought that to be one of the worst uses of the english language to explain what to do. I read it and still don't know what to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Posted March 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 From the rear label instructions.wiring instruction.jpgMy speakers are missing the rear paperwork instructions. I think my son tore all of that off about 35 years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupidhead Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 I am no expert but as I understand it the important thing is that all speakers be wired similar. Of course that assumes that the inside wiring is all the same. I also believe there is a "test" that can be done by facing two wired speakers face to face and playing a test tone you can tell if they are out of phase. In a nutshell, I think the travel of the cone (forward and backward) needs to be the same direction on the drivers.I have often wondered if the +/- terminals really matter other than the above info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Posted March 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 I dug out my old Shure test records to be certain that my speakers are in phase. They are indeed. I was sure I would be able to tell if they were out of phase just by listening but I double checked anyway.der Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlsplace Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 I dug out my old Shure test records to be certain that my speakers are in phase. They are indeed. I was sure I would be able to tell if they were out of phase just by listening but I double checked anyway.derYep, connect them back the other way and they will sound just a good as long as they are in phase Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tysontom Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Yeah, that speaker-polarity connection is a bit confusing. I set up an AR-2ax system -- with cables I had fabricated -- for a friend once, and I literally had to make a drawing to make it clear what to do. I've attached that drawing, and it might make it easier to understand. The important thing, of course, is to wire both speakers the same way such that the hot wire on one speaker is connected to the same terminal as the hot wire on the other speaker. You need to be sure that both woofers are moving in phase with each other; otherwise, the sound will be strange and disjointed, for lack of a better term, and there will be no deep bass because one speaker nullifies the output of the other in the deep-bass frequencies. Another thing to do in checking phase is to use a "D" cell from a flashlight, connect (probably have to solder) a wire to the positive end and a wire to the negative end, look at the woofer and apply the battery voltage to the 1 (negative) and 2 (positive) terminals. The woofer should move out and away from the enclosure if the woofer is wired correctly when positive voltage is applied to the #2 terminal. The 1.5 volts dc will not harm the woofer in any way if done for only a few minutes.--Tom Tyson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VintageMan Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 I asked myself the same question yesterday.I searched these forums and found:for the "Classic" models such as: AR-2ax, AR-5, etc. in that number "1" has been consistantly "negative" and number "2" has been consistantly, "positive". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupidhead Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 nice artwork Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Absolute polarity or phase does also matter... if your signal chain before speakers does not invert phase, positive amplifier terminal should be connected to positive speaker terminal. However if signal chain does invert phase, you should connect positive amp terminal to negative speaker terminal and negative amp terminal to positive speaker terminal to maintain absolute phase. This issue may look complicated, as some amplifiers do invert phase and some do not. And... if you do have non inverting RIAA amplifier, phase inverting line stage and phase inverting power amp, signal chain does not invert phase. To make things even more confusing... there is very little evidence that recordings are made phase correct way. But anyway... this is not rocket science anyway. I would say that 70-80% of all recordings do sound better, if you connect your signal source and amplifiers to speakers such way that whole signal chain does not invert phase. This should not be too hard. Best RegardsKimmo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Posted March 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Well iso, I'm doing the best that I can, every connection from phono cartridge to speaker terminal is connected correctly as marked. I can do no better than that as far as know. Test bands show that I'm in phase. I don't understand the rest that you're saying - absolute polarity? der Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff_C Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Absolute polarity or phase does also matter... Kimmo You are welcome to your view Kimmo but it is not a universally held view. To try and maintain absolute phase is pretty meaningless, because so much consumer equipment and studio equipment may or may not invert phase. See what a UK speaker manufacturer has to say on this. http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/showthread.php?409-Phase-invertion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Posted March 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 I appreciate the link Jeff_C, good reading.der Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 It is always amusing to imagine a hapless person surfing the net for simple information on how to connect an old pair of AR speakers and coming across this thread. Tom's excellent post provides all the information needed. In summary, the answer is "T" and "2" are the + side and "1" is the - side...and, most importantly, both speakers must be connected the same way.Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 I always thought that to be one of the worst uses of the english language to explain what to do. I read it and still don't know what to do. That's because it is before your time, David.Amps used to have "0" and "Ohm" terminal designations before + and - or red and black were used. The "8 ohm" designation would be today's positive or red side and "0" would be the negative or black side. Old tube amps had taps for "4 ohm", "8 ohm", etc, and a "0" terminal. Translated, the instructions say, 1 is the negative side and 2 is the positive side.Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ra.ra Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Or, in the case of this 1964 Scott tube amp, the positive tap is labelled "H", which I assume refers to 'hot'.About that original AR label Instruction #1, it could have been slightly more precise and clear if it had added one more word and said, "Connect 0 and 8-ohm output ..... to ..... input terminals 1 and 2, respectively." The original manual for the Scott amp is generally very good, but in this area regarding speaker wiring, it is sorely lacking - - - it makes no correlation between the wire end at the speaker terminals and the other end of the wire at the amp terminals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tysontom Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 nice artwork Tom.Thanks! Nothing fancy there, but it was enough for my friend to connect the speakers in the proper polarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlsplace Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Or, in the case of this 1964 Scott tube amp, the positive tap is labelled "H", which I assume refers to 'hot'.About that original AR label Instruction #1, it could have been slightly more precise and clear if it had added one more word and said, "Connect 0 and 8-ohm output ..... to ..... input terminals 1 and 2, respectively." The original manual for the Scott amp is generally very good, but in this area regarding speaker wiring, it is sorely lacking - - - it makes no correlation between the wire end at the speaker terminals and the other end of the wire at the amp terminals.speaker wiring.jpg speaker wiring scott.jpg Or you can just look at AR's 1973 manual which says:Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 You are welcome to your view Kimmo but it is not a universally held view. To try and maintain absolute phase is pretty meaningless, because so much consumer equipment and studio equipment may or may not invert phase. See what a UK speaker manufacturer has to say on this.http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/showthread.php?409-Phase-invertionAbsolute polarity is controversial issue like you say. But things are going to right direction. AES has recommended that correct recorded phase should be maintained. There is also 1991 AES paper "Proofs of absolute polarity" by Johansen. I do not know when absolute phase was found to be significant. Most likely in late 70´s or early 80´s. Prior to this there were so few phase coherent speakers that it was very unlikely that any differences were heard. It must have been almost impossible to match phase response of left and right 3-way stereo speaker at listening position before vertically mounted drive units.Manufacturers like Audio Research an Conrad Johnson have adviced that absolute polarity should be maintained since 1980´s. Some manufacturers like Mission and Ensemble have gone one step further and deviced phase reversal switch in some CD players...even CD specification says that output should be phase correct. I can not see why this should not be tried even with AR original models. This is free tip, nobody is making money when you wire speakers according absolute phase. If correctly phased speakers do not make difference to you... this should not degrade performance like replacing bipolar caps with film caps and cored inductors with air cored coils in properly designed crossover (especially steep sloped). Best RegardsKimmo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff_C Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Kimmo You are right in that it is a very controversial issue. If you read right through the thread I linked in my earlier post, there are some examples where phase is inverted - they are excellent recordings but you probably have to be a forum member to listen to them. I agree with you about correct polarity as far as our own equipment goes, it is the sensible thing to wire up the polarity correctly. One of the points that is made in that Harbeth thread is that we should all do what we can to maintain correct polarity (phase) within our own equipment, but it becomes a bit of a lottery when you can play one CD (or LP)and it has correct phase and the next CD you play has inverted phase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlsplace Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 To add to the confusion, some AR drivers are wired out of phase in the same cabinet. I've seen it and RoyC verifies this.Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 I would not go so far that every recording has correct polarity marked (different tracks can also have different polarity) and would change phase accordingly. I actually performed test at local Hifi exhibition in 1990 using Mission gear to demonstrate absolute polarity to 101 persons. When Huey Lewis record was used 22 persons could not tell difference, 41 persons liked one position an 38 liked the other. So... it is reasonable to believe there was no audible difference with loud rock´n´roll music. When I used Chandos recording where Felicity Lott was singing Richard Strauss song 24 persons could not tell difference, 26 persons liked one position and 51 liked the other position. So... it is reasonable to assume that there was difference, even testing did not meet any laboratory standard. One funny note was that 51 persons considered reverse phase nicer. But... like you say, absolute polarity of the recording was unknown. Best RegardsKimmo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.