Problem with woofer on an AR5.....

[lakecat]

Got a pair of AR5's recently and they were rough when opened. One woofer shot and other, the foam was shot. I bought another woofer and refoamed the existing. Cleaned the pots and general cleanup on the cabs as they were in nice condition. Put the padding back in and sealed the woofers.

I hooked up the cab with the original refoamed woofer and when I turned volume up to 10-11:00 position, I am getting crackling noise from center of woofer on low bass notes. I did the shims and everything on the refoam. Is this woofer probably shot also? ...or something else? Thanks for any suggestions.

[HarryM]

There is a good chance if the speaker was played with the bad surrounds that the voice coil was shorted out causing the voice coil to be bumpy and the bumps rubbing against the magnet or the voice coil former was damaged by bottoming out.

There are others that could explain this in technical terms.

I would suggest getting a second opinion before playing the speaker again.

If the former is damaged I am quite sure MSound could get you a recone kit. It's not much harder then doing surrounds and is fairly cheap as well.

[ligs]

On one woofer I shimmed the voice coil when refoaming. However, this woofer had a buzz when playing bass notes. I torn the voice coil out and confirmed that there was a section the winding got loose. But I had only experienced this once. Nowadays I am using my hands to center the voice coils and I have not had any voice coil rubbing problem for almost two years.

[lakecat]

There is a good chance if the speaker was played with the bad surrounds that the voice coil was shorted out causing the voice coil to be bumpy and the bumps rubbing against the magnet or the voice coil former was damaged by bottoming out.

There are others that could explain this in technical terms.

I would suggest getting a second opinion before playing the speaker again.

If the former is damaged I am quite sure MSound could get you a recone kit. It's not much harder then doing surrounds and is fairly cheap as well.

On one woofer I shimmed the voice coil when refoaming. However, this woofer had a buzz when playing bass notes. I torn the voice coil out and confirmed that there was a section the winding got loose. But I had only experienced this once. Nowadays I am using my hands to center the voice coils and I have not had any voice coil rubbing problem for almost two years.

Thanks for replies. I am guessing now that I just refoamed a bad woofer as it looks like he played them with the shredded foams. The grill had never been removed and when I did, I found foam laying in the bottom of both sets with hardly any on cones left. The one I refoamed played at low levels and I thought that meant it was good to go....but apparently not.. My bad so I will be searching for another woofer.

I also didn't know that you could damage the coil with shims as they were such thin pieces of plastic. Live and learn they say!

[ligs]

I am not sure the voice coil was damaged by the shimming process. However, the damaged voice coil could not be identified before refoaming. My point is shimming is not really needed. I refoamed all 18 Bose 901 3-inch drivers without using shims.

[HarryM]

Lakecat, I wouldn't look for another woofer. Give John a call at MSound and ask him about a recone kit. It will end up being cheaper then finding another woofer and it will be brand new other then the basket and magnet. I would do your original bad speaker and the one that crackles and save the third good speaker for a spare. I reconed 3 10" AR's and all of them came out good and at that time I had only ever done surrounds on 4 other speakers .If I can do it anybody that is careful can do it. Johns directions are easy to follow and he is very helpful.

[lakecat]

Lakecat, I wouldn't look for another woofer. Give John a call at MSound and ask him about a recone kit. It will end up being cheaper then finding another woofer and it will be brand new other then the basket and magnet. I would do your original bad speaker and the one that crackles and save the third good speaker for a spare. I reconed 3 10" AR's and all of them came out good and at that time I had only ever done surrounds on 4 other speakers .If I can do it anybody that is careful can do it. Johns directions are easy to follow and he is very helpful.

Hi Harry...... funny that you mention him and it wasn't until I googled his name that I realized that is who I ordered my foam surround kit from. His Ebay name is moonlistener and why I didn't catch it until I went to his web-site. I will contact him and see what he has. Thanks!

Jeff

[JKent]

FYI: MSound will also do speaker repairs if you think it might be beyond what you are willing/able to do.

Kent

[lakecat]

FYI: MSound will also do speaker repairs if you think it might be beyond what you are willing/able to do.

Kent

I looked at the reconing process on YouTube last night. If the coil is bad, that wouldn't fix it would it? I got the refoamed woofer off Ebay for the AR5 for $34 and looks to be simplier and cheaper for me to just get another woofer off the bay. I am getting new updated tweets anyways so keeping originals is not that important to me.

[JKent]

Disclaimer: I have never reconed a speaker (I have refoamed many speakers).

I watched this excellent YouTube vid:

According to that, the recone kit includes the cone, spider and VC. So Yes--it WILL fix a VC problem. Also pay attention to how careful he is to keep the VC gap absolutely clean.

If you got a good AR-5 woofer for $34 you got a good deal. Might not be so lucky next time. EBay "can" be a crapshoot.

Here's what I would do, in no particular order:

• watch eBay
  
• put an ad in the For Sale/Wanted section of this forum. I have bought some really nice drivers from CSP members
  
• call/email John at MSound and ask if he can fix your woofer, including the VC if needed
  
• call/email Bill LeGall at Millersound. As I said before, if a speaker can be repaired he's the guy who can do it
  
• send a PM to CSP member RoyC and ask if he would fix your woofer
  

Good luck

Kent

[lakecat]

Disclaimer: I have never reconed a speaker (I have refoamed many speakers).

I watched this excellent YouTube vid:

According to that, the recone kit includes the cone, spider and VC. So Yes--it WILL fix a VC problem. Also pay attention to how careful he is to keep the VC gap absolutely clean.

If you got a good AR-5 woofer for $34 you got a good deal. Might not be so lucky next time. EBay "can" be a crapshoot.

Here's what I would do, in no particular order:

• watch eBay
  
• put an ad in the For Sale/Wanted section of this forum. I have bought some really nice drivers from CSP members
  
• call/email John at MSound and ask if he can fix your woofer, including the VC if needed
  
• call/email Bill LeGall at Millersound. As I said before, if a speaker can be repaired he's the guy who can do it
  
• send a PM to CSP member RoyC and ask if he would fix your woofer
  

Good luck

Kent

Hi Kent,

That was the video I had watched also. MSound does provide a reconing kit for a very reasonable price and may try to fix my one bad woofer that I replaced. After talking to Roy and messing with the refoamed woofer on my stereo, I think I was simply (stuipidly?) driving it too strongly. It just won't handle low bass at the same levels as the 2ax I own. That surprises me after reading info on the 5 and thinking it was a step above the AX and was considered the 3a junior. I also thought the woofers were basically the same.

I am gonna experiment on some other receivers I own and see if I come up with the same conclusion.

[ligs]

Even if the woofers on both AR2ax and 5 are the same the air-cored inductor in AR 5 has twice the inductance(and maby be DCR too) of AR 2ax. I would expect the bass in AR5 will have higher Q and less well-controlled than AR2ax.

[RoyC]

Some other thoughts regarding lakecat's issue...

-There were several iterations of the 10 inch woofer.

-I have seen a number of these 40+/- year old woofers with weak spiders lately. Problems can show up at higher listening levels.

-The AR-5 is not as sensitive as the 2ax, regardless of the published specs. It simpy will not play as loudly with the same amount of input power. Pushing it may cause some clipping issues under certain circumstances.

Roy

[lakecat]

Thanks for feedback. Since I am replacing the tweeters and won't be original anymore; I wonder if simply replacing the woofers with new would be the answer to a nice deep sound? I am only asking as Simply Speakers recco'd these woofers to me and made me wonder if that might be better to do. http://www.simplyspeakers.com/replacement-speaker-woofer-w-1038.html

I am not looking to do this right away but sometime in the future when I recap. Plus, I want to fool around with these a little before I make any decisions. Being that the cabinets are in such great condition is making me want to make these nice. Any opinions?

Thanks,

Jeff

[RoyC]

Thanks for feedback. Since I am replacing the tweeters and won't be original anymore; I wonder if simply replacing the woofers with new would be the answer to a nice deep sound? I am only asking as Simply Speakers recco'd these woofers to me and made me wonder if that might be better to do. http://www.simplyspe...fer-w-1038.html

I am not looking to do this right away but sometime in the future when I recap. Plus, I want to fool around with these a little before I make any decisions. Being that the cabinets are in such great condition is making me want to make these nice. Any opinions?

Thanks,

Jeff

Jeff,

The short answer is "no". This woofer will not provide "deeper sound"....and it will change everything else.

You cannot drop a random driver into an exisiting design without taking the crossover into consideration. The replacement tweeters we have discussed include crossover adjustments to integrate them with the rest of the AR-5 system. For the cost of those woofers you would be MUCH better off having an original pair of AR woofers rebuilt, or even purchasing new woofers specifically intended as AR replacements from AB Tech or Vintage AR.

Simply Speakers is not the best place to go for AR advice.

Roy

[fast_eddie_72]

Agree with all the advice given so far, and would only add that a pair of AR5s working properly will have absolutely wonderful, deep bass. Not quite as deep as an AR3, but compared to just about anything else they're wonderful. No measurements, but just from listening, they play deeper than my LST2s. I'll confess that I use and equalizer to boost the very low end, but even that, only by a couple of db.

That reconeing video is great! I've never done that job, but after watching that I kind of want to give it a go!

[lakecat]

Well... I got the crackling issue resolved and wasn't the refoam fortunately. I did two things but don't really know what solved it. First thing I did was to remove the old wax cap under the woofer and replaced it with the newer blue Spraques I got from a crossover purchase form the Bay for really just the pots. I had a used foam gasket on the woofer so I used duct seal this time to seal the woofer....and it eliminated the crackling at higher volume on the low bass. I still have an old foam gasket under the other woofer and the wax cap and it plays fine so I don't know but will reseal it also with the duct seal. I want to recap both sometime in the future.

The tweeters are weak and am getting new to put in and can't wait until I hear this pair with them in. It sounds purdy darn good now other than than the weak highs.

As far as the woofer recone on the original. There is no per say reconing "kit" as far as I can find like the video.

[fast_eddie_72]

The tweeters are weak and am getting new to put in and can't wait until I hear this pair with them in. It sounds purdy darn good now other than than the weak highs.

Are you sure the tweeters are at fault? I'd look at caps before I looked for new tweeters.

[Shacky]

I doubt any reconing kit would have correct compliance spider anyway.

Glad you got the fixed!

[lakecat]

I doubt any reconing kit would have correct compliance spider anyway.

Glad you got the fixed!

Thanks Shacky.... MSound said he could do it but there isn't a kit per say. I read your adventures on an older thread in AK about your work with your 5's. Originally you were disappointed in them and the bass but liked them after your rehab on them. Strange that you posted here as I was gonna message you on AK and ask if you liked the bass better after you were done with everything. I am about to recap these that I have but the bass has been not what I expected. I am going to reseal everythng after the recap and see then. I got them with the thought they were the 3a juniors and am finding out they are a distant cousin.. .IMHO of course and may change when I get these done.

I am curious.....do you still have your 5's?

[lakecat]

As a follow up, I ended up installing new HiVi Q1R tweeters and recapping with poly Daytons. There is no issues with woofers now and the sound is crisp and clear and deep. Roy is correct that they take more volume to play at same level as the 2ax but they do provide a wider sound scale.

I am now gonna compare them to the 2a's that I have as I have been most pleased with the old cloth woofers of the 2a but I'm sure the 5's will kick butt in the upper ranges. Thank you all for your input.

[xpat]

Hi JKent,

Thanks for the video on reconing a speaker. Great find!

xpat

[Chebu70]

Some good info in this thread on reconing. Question: is there a way to pull the cone and spider to inspect the vc to determine if new coil is necessary? If possible, I'd like to keep OE parts to preserve the look ndmstch the other woofer.

Synopsis: I recently brought some ar-5's back to life with new tweets, cleaned pots, and woofer surrounds. On one woofer I had to recentered ( actually slightly off center to avoid rubbing) due to some clicking / pinging that sounded to be coming from the vc. I'd like to remove the cone and spider to inspect the vc, and I've read that some folks have done this but haven't found any explicit instructions. Hats off to the experts on CSP and the unavoidable brilliant responses I'm sure I'll get.

Cheers

[RoyC]

Question: is there a way to pull the cone and spider to inspect the vc to determine if new coil is necessary?

Sean,

The short answer is "no"...but if there is an issue, you will hear it.

The problem is further complicated by uncertainty as to the proper replacement parts. In the past week I've checked in with popular retailers, Msound and Ebay's "Vintage AR", as well as a wholesale source, and there is no consensus on proper replacement parts for the foam surround or cloth surround 10 inch AR woofer. There are some parts with similar (but not exact) dimensions, but the mechanical and electrical characterisitics have not been verified.

Roy

[Chebu70]

In that case definitely bad VC. I think I'll try my luck at delicately pulling her apart. Have you had any luck using acetone to soften the factory dust cap and spider adhesive? The optimistic side of me is hoping for a simple fix... The realistic side of me knows it will likely be a recone.

Otherwise, the 2ax and 5's use the same woofer for replacement if I've understood correctly?

Thanks again Roy.