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How to hook up AR M-4.5 Speakers?


mred2

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OK, so now that this NOVICE has decided to try and keep the pair of AR Holographic Imaging M-4.5 speakers that I "Inherited". Can someone not LAUGH OUTLOUD and tell me how to connect them to my existing stereo? The speakers have places for "Banana Plugs?) at the top and bottom of the towers. My stereo has just places for wires to be inserted. So if I put the "banana plugs" on one end and insert the wires on the stereo, how do I connect the bottom and top? I realize that the bottom are for the Sub woofers, and the top are the speakers, so should they be separate or joined? I know nothing about these speakers except that they are in perfect condition except for some scratches. Any help would be really appreciated. I had them listed for sale elsewhere on this site. Got no responses, so I guess I will just have to use them. Thank you for any help given.

I thought (NOVICE THINKING AGAIN?) I should say that I am using an AIWA AV-D67 Stereo AV Receiver out put is Front speakers 160 watts per channel, Surround (Rear) 100 watts per channel. Also running an RCA CD-9400 Professional Series CD changer (101 discs). Not sure if this will help with the information I need. Again THANKS for understand I am REAL NEW at this stuff even though I am 66 years old.

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Michiganpat would know better than I, since he's actually seen these, but here's my best guess: You have speaker terminals that look basically like this: http://www.parts-exp...tnumber=260-281

Since you are not bi-amping, you need a jumper between the 2 black terminals and the 2 red ones (NOT to each other!). You can use plain ol' wire, like lamp cord.

The jacks are "probably" binding posts that will accept banana plugs but should also be able to accept bare wire, either through a hole in the stud or wrapped around it.

As I said--Pat will know better but if you could post a clear photo of your speaker jacks maybe that would help.

Kent

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yep, basically you have to plug the bottom to top, and then attatch speaker wire from your receiver to the bottom, either via stacked bananna plugs, or bare wire

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  • 3 months later...

I have the M5 speakers, and am puzzled by the presence of the connections at the bottom as well as the top. My speakers lately sound a bit thin, and I am wondering whether I have them wired correctly, I have not connected anything to the bottome connections just in the top: the top is a separate unit housing the mid-range and tweeter, which are wired, and I have a banana plug connection at the top.

I have (perhaps incorrectly??) assumed that the bass speaker in the lower cabinet is wired to the top??

Michigan Pat, I believe you said you have the M5, can you advise me here?

Am amazed to find an active site where people still talk about these speakers!!!

Correction: just looked a little more closely, and I find that the banana plugs actually are in the top of the lower cabinet, so they must go to the bass speaker, with short wires connecting the banana plug to the top cabinet, for the mid and tweeter.

So why the connection on the bottom??

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my M5's have the main binding posts on the bottom. internal to the tower is a connection to the bannana plug jack on the top of the tower, where you plug in the top mid-tweet nacelle. it's on the bottom for asthetics--you don't have speaker wire running up the back, or visible along the wall.

I have my speaker wire going to the bottom binding posts (because I use bare wire), but electrically, a stacked banana plug to one of the top two spots should be the same, as long as the jumper between the top-mid nacelle and the bottom tower is present.

if they're sounding a little thin, it's probably that the foam on the 8" woofer is shot. I replaced mine this summer, was a pretty easy job, I used these foams:

http://meniscusaudio.com/8-foam-p-1236.html

and some aleen's tacky glue. there is IIRC a 150uf NPE cap in the base's crossover (it's a high pass for the mid-tweet nacelle), but I didn't replace them. if you want to, they're $4.16 ea

http://meniscusaudio.com/npe-150uf-p-764.html

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Thanks for such a prompt reply MichiganPat, really did not expect to find anything so soon!

Is it likely that both speakers would deteriorate in the same way (eg woofer's foam casing) or would it be enough for it to happen on just one of them?

another issue I didn't mention is that sometime in the last 12-15 months I paid some "professionals" to come rewire my listening room for phone (for modem feedback on my cable TV), fm aerial connections, and to re-route the front and rear speaker wiring through walls and ceilings (to no longer cross door-ways).

Before these guys came I asked them to re-assure me that they will be using quality speaker wire ("Oh definitely" they said)

But when they started the speaker re-wiring, they pulled out this cheap, single-strand wiring (ie a single strand each, one for pos and one for neg) - like very think fuse-wire, not the usual multi-strand speaker cables I had been using. Had to accept that at the time because my original wiring wasn't long enough to be fed up into the ceiling, across and down through the wall.

Can the type of cablilng alone be enough to cause this loss in "fullness" of sound??

I am getting a professional speaker repairer to come out and listen to, and inspect, the speakers, so will see what he says. Also sounded out my preferred local hifi shop who were happy for me to bring in my speakers and have them connected up to one of their demo systems (presumably with good speaker cables!!) to get their opinion on whether it is just "old" speaker driver tech vs new speaker driver tech that makes my newer bookshelf rears appear to fill in the sound to "carry" my AR M5 main speakers.

I am also not sure too what extent I am understanding all the settings in both my blu-ray player (Oppo 95) and my receiver (NAD T775 HD) to get the best result: Have set my front L/R (the M5s) to Large in both player and receiver, and also have turned "Enhanced Bass" in the receiver which I believe is supposed to ensure LFE signals still get sent to my sub even though I have designated my Front L/R to Large. Hoping this speaker tech who is coming out might help me here.

My receiver does have Audyssey room correction, but I have that turned off at the moment, and am relying on manually entered speaker distance settings in both player and receiver.

But whatever, when I set all systems to pure stereo (and whether I use direct analogue from player to receiver, or use HDMI digital from player to receiver) the result is disappointing without the fuller sound from the newer centre and rears, and not like I remember it being when the M5s were relatively new (my memory is of a full mid-range and a punchy, but not boomy, bass - back when my system was purely stereo.

Sorry for the rambling, just good to "sound off" to someone who has the same speakers to get some useful comments back!!

Edit: I have made sure that I haven't wired the speakers out of phase, that I have connected pos to pos, neg to neg, from receiver to speakers.

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Hi Peter

Pat's giving you advice but I just wanted to comment on a couple of things.

First, I'm not sure from reading your post and Pat's answer whether you have the woofers wired to the receiver. Have you tried pulling the grille cover on the woofer and looking/listening/feeling to be sure it works?

Second. If you refoam one woofer do both. You can get an excellent kit from MSound or if you don't want to do it yourself you can send the woofers to a pro such as Bill LeGall at Millersound in PA or Carl (one of our moderators) in CT.

Third. I doubt it's the wiring. Solid wires are perfectly fine as long as they are heavy enough for the length of the run. Some people have used 12 or 14ga Romex (house wiring) to do in-wall speaker wiring. Depending on the length of the run you need at least 16 ga but 14 or 12 is better, especially if you're going over 50 feet. OTOH if you are saying it is very thin, that's not good.

Fourth. My Onkyo receiver also has Audyssey and as I understand it, if you are using a subwoofer the front speakers should be set to "small" regardless of their size. I'd suggest re-reading the manual. I don't think "enhanced bass" will give a natural sound.

FWIW, I use the Audyssey. Having the microphone, test signals and computer analysis should set up the system better than you will ever do by ear. In my HT system I use small speakers (the biggest being the AR4a fronts) and a modest Cambridge Sounworks Newton sub. The music sounds natural when I listen to jazz but the house shakes when I watch Star Wars. The Audyssey system is maddeningly complicated but yields good results IMHO.

Kent

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Thanks for you comments, Kent.

Just for clarification, I am living in Australia, so reccs for US services are not relevant (thoughts appreciated though).

I am not sure if you are familiar with the M5, but it comes in a small "top" unit (lets call that section A), which houses the mid and tweet, and the main tower cabinet (lets call that section B) which houses the bass speaker. Both main speaker connections are in the top and bottom of this lower, main unit (Section B). So I am assuming that whichever connection I use in the main unit (section B) - top or bottom -, must connect to the bass driver.. There is a short bridging connection connecting the top plugs in the main unit (section B) to the top unit (section A) housing the mid and tweet. My banana plugs are connected to the top connection in the lower, main unit (section B, housing the bass driver) and I am assuming this is permanently connected to the bass driver. (otherwise why have it designed to receive banana plugs?)

I read in the Brochure I downloaded from this site that the M5 is bi-ampable - maybe this is why it has two possible connections in its main section (Section B)??

I will leave it up to the speaker tech who is coming to check to assess the physical state of the drivers, cones, surrounds etc. But I get your point about if you repair one in any way, probably best to repair both, to ensure they remain in an identical operating state. I'll keep that pointer in mind when talking to the tech (who was recommended to me by the hifi dealer who sold me the Oppo (fairly substantial dealer, with many listening rooms, and a large range of gear esp speakers, so I am assuming they are savvy enough not to recommend a shoddy tech).

Re the wiring, thick and thin are nebulous relative concepts, but certainly the main wire provided by my wiring "professionals" is substantially thinner than the bridging wire between section A and Section B (which is the original, because I have never changed them and I bought the speakers new).

Whoa, more confusion! Since writing preceding para got up for a closer inspection and found:

a) I may in fact have twisted the bridging connections in one speaker system at some stage and joined pos to neg. They are both correct now, but cannot test as is 1:36 am and I will wake my son (not to mention the rest of the neighbourhood(!!!!!) if I test at any sort of useful volume. Will have to wait until later this morning after son has got up to go to work. Damn!!!

B) In the middle of above-mentioned process, I observed that even if I choose (as I have) to connect receiver to speakers via the top plugs in Section B, rather than the bottom, there are still two places I could plug my bananas into: the banana plug sockets in section A (top unit with mid and tweet) or section B (the main unit with bass driver). In other words the bridging wire between Section A and Section has sockets for the banana plugs on both the Section A end and Section B end. (This on top of the connctions at the bottom of the Section B units!!!!)

Comments Pat??

re your fourth point, Kent, I was aware that the normal rec re mains when system has a sub, is to set the main speakers to Small (and yes, I have read elsewhere that most reccs would be to utilise the Audyssey room correction system) and again, yes, both my Oppo and Receiver manual recommends a "small" setting for the main FL & FR. To be honest I am not sure when and why I chose to turn off the Audyssey settings, and reset my M5s to Large. Maybe I was trying out the sound for pure stereo at some stage (ie using only the two M5s with nothing else).

I did a lot of aural testing today hopping between and comparing different settings on both Oppo and receiver but in the end I wasn't sure what differences I could hear: probably developed aural fatigue!!

Well, will wait until later this morning to see if fixing what may have been a pos to neg connection has made a difference. Boy will my face be red of that turns out to be a major improvement, when I had been so sure I kept pos to pos all the way through!!!

Well, will now get some shuteye (for 5-6 hours!) and then have another major listen!

Thank you both for your time and interest: will keep you posted.

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Well, what a difference miswiring can make!!

After spotting that at some stage in the (distant) past, I must have removed, and then reversed the polarities, of the short bridging connection on the right-hand M5.

Just been playing all sorts of music: Eagles, part of a Tchaikovsky ballet suite, Griegs Piano Concerto, some Scheherazade,some tracks from an Aix records 96/24 5.1 demo disc, a 176.2 hz stereo on a dvd rom disc from MA recordings (La Segunda)(a great album, but make sure you buy the hi-res version!) and Anoushka Shankar's Rise album, I have fell in love with my M5s all over again!!!

Been using a direct analogue connection between my Oppo 95 and the NAD T775 HD av receiver: even the straight 2-channel stereo recordings seemed to fill the room.

I noticed a pair of M6s for sale at this site if any of you are interested (wish I lived in the states, cannot find anything here in OZ):

http://ottumwa.craigslist.org/ele/3332258695.html

I saw the M6s back in the 90s when I bought my M5s (for over $2000.00 new) but the M6s were way outside my budget. Their bass must be fantastic, with the twin 8" drivers.

Am still getting the tech out to check surrounds etc, also a bit of a rattle with movies whenever there is some serious LFE rumbles going on.

But for the mo, I cannot beleive how good plain stereo can sound (always used the enhanced stereo to drive surrounds, centre and sub for so long, because of dissatisfaction of the M5s by themselves - all due to a reversed polarity (and just the bridging connection, not the main wires to the receiver)!

Love poking around on this site to check out all the different posts on the AR M series.

Cheers Guys

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electrically speaking, if you have the "bridge" wires between the base and the mid-tweet top, you can plug your input wire to any of the connection points and it will be the same electrically.

to inspect the woofer foams, take the top off of the speaker, flip it upside down. unscrew the feet and unscrew the speaker terminal cup, then take the 8 screws out the hold the bottom on. the board in the middle of the tower pulls out, and that's what the woofer is mounted to. one woofer foam was worse than the other on mine, but both were on their way out....

BTW if you search the net, IIRC there have been many double blind tests of speaker one, one comparing some super expensive speaker wire and using two wire coathangers that were unbent and straightened out to connect the source to the speaker, and the results of pretty much all of them was you couldn't tell...

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Thanks Pat

The speaker tech has come and gone, and come and gone again.

There was absolutely no foam surround on the bass speaker in either unit (just a clump of black stuff lying around on the inside bottom of each speaker cabinet, and a big gap between the cone and the circular metal frame of each of the 8" bass drivers!). The speaker man took both bass speakers away, refoamed them, brought them back and re-installed them. No wonder the speakers rattled when hit with some really low LFE rumbles from explosions and rockets taking off (in the movies, that is!!)

It now sounds like my sub is turned on when it aint!! (Well, for music anyway!)

Listening to all my standard 2-channel CDs in pure stereo now and thoroughly enjoying them (instead of using artificial surround to get some bass): analogue out from the Oppo to analogue in on the NAD. The Double Bass in the Herbie Mann at the Village Gate is booming away at this very moment. I once again understand why these M5s cost me over $2000.00 for the pair in 1994-5 or thereabouts!

Now all I have to do is investigate the suggestions you guys have given me re re-surfacing the exterior of the cabinets to remove the shiny patches where I tried to wipe the dust of them one time!

Thanks once again for the time, interest and suggestions from you guys!

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Hey Peter

Glad the problem's solved. Pat hit the nail on the head in Post #7. I hope your speaker expert tested the woofers thoroughly. The problem with deteriorated foam is that if you push the speakers you can do damage to the woofers. I "assume" the pro checked them out.

The challenge of long-range diagnosing! If Pat had been there in Oz and had looked at your speakers I'm sure the first thing he would do would be to pull off the grilles and look at the speakers. Drivers of that era are al going to have deteriorated foam surrounds.

Happy listening!

Kent

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Hey Peter

Glad the problem's solved. Pat hit the nail on the head in Post #7. I hope your speaker expert tested the woofers thoroughly. The problem with deteriorated foam is that if you push the speakers you can do damage to the woofers. I "assume" the pro checked them out.

The challenge of long-range diagnosing! If Pat had been there in Oz and had looked at your speakers I'm sure the first thing he would do would be to pull off the grilles and look at the speakers. Drivers of that era are al going to have deteriorated foam surrounds.

Happy listening!

Kent

actually, no, because these don't have grilles over the woofers ;) the top woofers that have grilles are all rubber surround (6.5" on the M4, 8" on the M4.5, 5" on the M5 & M6)....the foam surround woofers in these are in a 4th order bandpass box, and you have to pull the baffle out of the bandpass enclosure from the bottom to inspect them (on the M5 and M6 at least)

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