New member needs infos on AR-2ax

[quebecois59]

What could be a reasonable price asked for three restored and tested pots? I got three out of four that are OK. Anyone interested in buying them?

[JKent]

PM sent re caps.

See ebay Item number: 290732338241 for recent AP pot sale

[quebecois59]

One question about the right connection of the L-Pads compared to the pots: on the pots, the #2 connections on each pot are connected with each other and soldered to a loop connector. The T bolt on the back of the box goes through this loop.

Should I do the same with the L-Pads?

On the attached picture, the second wire to connection #2 isn't shown, so I'm a bit confused.

[JKent]

One question about the right connection of the L-Pads compared to the pots: on the pots, the #2 connections on each pot are connected with each other and soldered to a loop connector. The T bolt on the back of the box goes through this loop.

Should I do the same with the L-Pads?

On the attached picture, the second wire to connection #2 isn't shown, so I'm a bit confused.

Hope the attached photo helps. Did you receive my PM?

The 2 yellow caps on the right are 3uF, wired in parallel to make 6uF. The greeen blob to the left of the Hi L-pad is just a splice covered with tape. The #1 tabs on the L-pads correspond to #2 on the pots and they are both connected to terminal T. You do not have to connect them to each other, but you could. There must be an electrical connection of terminal T and both L-pads' tab 1. "T" is the + connection for the tweeter (Hi) and the Mid. The black wire from the #1 tab on the Mid L-pad goes to the Mid driver's + terminal. The green wire from #1 on the Hi L-pad goes to the + on the tweeter. I think there is a schematic in the Library. Will post a link if I find it.

Kent

[quebecois59]

Hope the attached photo helps. Did you receive my PM?

Kent

Thanks Kent

Yes I got both of your PM and answered them , but I obviously did something wrong since you didn't receive them...

Where did you put the resistor recommended for the mid circuit? I don't see it on the picture...

[JKent]

I put it on the back of the mid but you could put it in the crossover. Here is the 2ax xo schematic but it's not very clear http://www.classicsp..._schematic.html

Attached picture shows the mid with resistor mounted. The only reason I did it this way is because I had already assembled the speakers without resistors, then went back and added them.

Try emailing instead.

[quebecois59]

I received my refoam kit from MSOUND this morning and I'm about to finish the installation of the second foam. How long should I wait before I test my rebuilt woofers? MSound's manual says 6 to 12 hours, is that enough?

Also I realized a bit late that the first dust cover I installed was not perfectly centered, does it matter at all?

[JKent]

I would wait over night, then play at low volume for the first few days while the glue cures completely and the foams break in. Don't play loud, bass-heavy music the first week.

Not "perfectly" centered is probably OK but try for better accuracy on the 2nd. The WD glue supplied by MSound does not dry too fast, so if you goof when placing the dust cap, just peel it off and move it. Excess WD can be cleaned off with water while it's still wet.

Kent

[quebecois59]

I listened at one of my rebuilt speakers this morning, the ones with original pots cleaned. I put my favorite recording of the Mills Brothers. I'm satisfied with bass response, but not with the tweeter and mid performance. As soon as the voices come together more loudly than the average, both tweeter and mid vibrate like there's something loose. That noise would compare a bit to a gazoo with a broken membrane. When I turn both pots to zero, that noie disaperas completely. I didn't notice that when I listen to the speakers before I did the rebuilt.

Could it be because I haven't put the wool back in there yet?

Update: I listened to other CDs (Corsica, Zap Mamma, Getz and Gilberto, Rachmaninov, etc.) and I didn't experiment the same weird noise...now I think my Mills Brothers recording is the problem. Maybe the LP they took to digitalize the songs was just too old? While typing this, I'm listening to Dave Brubeck's quartet and it sounds just perfect !

[quebecois59]

I will soon start looking at a new cloth for the grills. My guess is that anything the color I need and not too thick will be correct, isn't it? Or do I have to look for something "acoustically transparent"?

[JKent]

Glad your speaker sounds good. You really can't evaluate it until it's all back together. The fiberglass needs to be in place and all drivers must be sealed to the cabinet. Best thing to use for that is Duct Seal, available in electric supply stores: http://www.homedepot.com/buy/building-materials/heating-venting-cooling/gardner-bender/1-pound-10pack-plugs-duct-seal-compound-66138.html

The best material for the grilles is Irish Linen. Look in the AR3a booklet for information on that. Be sure to use a natural fabric (linen, wool, cotton). After the cloth is installed you can spray it with some water then let it dry or use a hair dryer. The cloth will shrink and get tight. I describe this in more detail on page 7 of the KLH 8 restoration guide, attached to Post#1 here: http://www.classicsp...?showtopic=6387

Kent

[quebecois59]

All the drivers on both of my speakers are fitted with thin foam rings instead of being sealed with Duct Seal. Are these foam "seals" acoustically correct or do I have to replace them with Duct Seal for a better performance?

I'm a bit reluctant to remove the tweeter because these two tiny wires in the front look very fragile to my eye and I wouldn't like to break one of them while putting that Duct Seal if I don't have to...

I just thought: what about puttig a very thin "snake" of Duct seal over the outer edge of the tweeter? I wouldn't have to move it at all and I would have it sealed. Of course I'd have to be very delicate to put a short section of this snake under the tiny wires in front of the tweeter.

[JKent]

RIGHT! Do not remove the front-wired tweeters. That would be asking for trouble. If it has not been removed leave it alone. No snakes, either

Same goes for the mid--if you have not removed it, best to leave it alone.

As for the woofer, I think those thin foam rings can only be compressed once or twice, then they become too flat and don't seal well. I'd use a thin snake for the woofer.

Maybe other members have thoughts on this subject.

Kent

[quebecois59]

RIGHT! Do not remove the front-wired tweeters. That would be asking for trouble. If it has not been removed leave it alone. No snakes, either

Same goes for the mid--if you have not removed it, best to leave it alone.

As for the woofer, I think those thin foam rings can only be compressed once or twice, then they become too flat and don't seal well. I'd use a thin snake for the woofer.

Maybe other members have thoughts on this subject.

Kent

Too late for the mid, I have already removed it to put duct seal and put it back. I did nothing with the tweeter except that I tightened the bolts.

By the way I have a question. I wired one of my AR to my sound system this evening. The other speaker is a JVC Zero3. When I play music, I have to move the balance button of the ampli way out of balance in favor of the AR to equalize the volume on both speakers. It seems that the Zero3 delivers more sound with the same current, is that "normal"? I don't know a lot about JVC Zero3 speakers. It is written on the label on the back 75 watts DIN and 150 watts music.

[JKent]

Yes--it's normal. Different speakers have different levels of efficiency. ARs are not very efficient.

No harm done with the mid. But you are wise to stay clear of the tweeter.

[quebecois59]

Here's are two newby questions:

1- on the label on the back of my 2ax is written 10/73, is this the month and year of fabrication?

2- I can't see any specification on the boxes about how many watts these speakers can handle?

[JKent]

1 - I don't know. Maybe. I have not seen a date on the back of any AR speaker--just "tested by" and "inspected by", with initials on the Warranty label, and a serial number on the Instructions label. Maybe it's the original purchase date.

2 - the problem with amps is not too much power but too little. You could use a 1000 watt amp with your 2ax's and as long as you are not trying to amplify a rock concert in a huge arena, you'll be fine. On the other hand, if you use a 5 watt amp and try to play your speakers at normally loud levels, you will drive them to clipping and THAT's when damage occurs. General rule of thumb: The more clean power, the better.

A good amp with a true rating of 60 watts RMS per channel will be fine. 100 watts is even better.

Kent

[quebecois59]

Thanks for the informations.

My Harman Kardon HK 3300 ampli is probably not powerful enough to allow my Ar speakers to give their best performance. I can't see anywhere on the ampli how many watts it is supposed to work with, but their site says either 20 or 25 watts. I'm not the kind of guy who listens to the music very loud, and nor my living room neither my office are wide rooms so maybe it's enough.

This said, I consider buying a second hand ampli for my office to hook up the Ar speakers, a CD player and a turntable or cassette deck. What would be your recommendations as for the mark and model of ampli?

[JKent]

Amp recommendations depend on many factors. The fact that you want to play a turntable through it adds one more consideration: You need a phono input. A vintage AR amp would be cool. There is someone selling one here: http://www.classicsp...?showtopic=7374

Disclaimers:

1. He's new to CSP so we don't know him
   
2. Vintage amps can have problems and require professional attention
   
3. I don't know what shipping cost or import taxes would be.
   

You could try emailing him but be aware of the risks.

Some other thoughts:

1. Vintage amps can have problems and require professional attention (I'm repeating but it's important)
   
2. Japanese amps and receivers from the 70s were usually very powerful. You may find a bargain on a Kenwood, Pioneer, or other Japanese brand.
   
3. Vintage Sherwood receivers are very good and, in the US at least, usually very inexpensive.
   
4. There are several truly great Canadian speaker manufacturers. I don't know which ones make amps but it's worth looking into. Bryston makes outstanding, durable amps--they have a 20 year guarantee! Used Brystons are hard to find here in the US and they can be expensive but they are built to last forever. If I found an affordable Bryston I'd buy it. In the unlikely case that it needs work, the company is still in business to take care of it. Another Canadian amp brand that springs to mind is Classe, but their stuff is even more expensive than Bryston!
   
5. Used McIntosh equipment, made in the US, is excellent but also not cheap.
   
6. This is a good new amp that will power the ARs well: http://www.amazon.co...r/dp/B00026BQJ6 It is a basic power amp--no tuner, no phono, but it does have a volume control and works well with a single input (CD for example).
   
7. Another new power amp: http://www.amazon.co...r/dp/B003HZPKSM Also a power amp with level controls. The built-in fan may be too noisy for some people.
   

If you ask 10 people for their opinion on this, you will get 11 different answers

Kent

[quebecois59]

Thank you Kent,

I'd really like to play cassettes and LP's so I would look for a vintage model. I don't want to pay more than 100$.

[HarryM]

When I started looking for an amp,it was for my AR 91's which are 4 ohm speakers.I don't know if your 2ax's are 4 or 8 ohm but if you catch the AR collecting bug you will want an amp that can handle 4 ohms well and around 200 watts per channel for the larger AR's.I picked up Hafler DH 200's after doing a fair amount of research.Castle was another name that came up quite abit as well but is more money.I bought my Haflers as part of a package deal for about $100 each.They handle 4 ohm speakers well and one amp is plenty of power for my 91's or a few pairs of smaller 8 ohm speakers.They do not have a volume or level controls so you would need a receiver that you can plug the amp into or a preamp.

[quebecois59]

_{When I started looking for an amp,it was for my AR 91's which are 4 ohm speakers.I don't know if your 2ax's are 4 or 8 ohm but if you catch the AR collecting bug you will want an amp that can handle 4 ohms well and around 200 watts per channel for the larger AR's.I picked up Hafler DH 200's after doing a fair amount of research.Castle was another name that came up quite abit as well but is more money.I bought my Haflers as part of a package deal for about $100 each.They handle 4 ohm speakers well and one amp is plenty of power for my 91's or a few pairs of smaller 8 ohm speakers.They do not have a volume or level controls so you would need a receiver that you can plug the amp into or a preamp.}

_{Hey Harry!}

_{There is nothing specific to the resistance of the speakers on the label on the back. When I hooked my multimeter to one woofer, I got a 6.5 ohms reading. I don't know what it means in relation with what you wrote about your own speakers and ampli...do I need a more powerful ampli or not?}

[ra.ra]

You can see in the attached chart from 1971 AR catalog that except for the AR-3 and AR-3a (4 ohm speakers), all of the "classic" era speakers had an impedance of 8 ohms, which should suggest that virtually all hi-fi amplifiers of this era should be compatible.

[quebecois59]

You can see in the attached chart from 1971 AR catalog that except for the AR-3 and AR-3a (4 ohm speakers), all of the "classic" era speakers had an impedance of 8 ohms, which should suggest that virtually all hi-fi amplifiers of this era should be compatible.

Thanks for the info. I sent a message to my older brother in Quebec City, saying that I'm in the process of restoring vintage speakers and that I need an ampli. He offered to give me his old Sansui he bought in the early '80s. So that will do the job until I find a better one.

[quebecois59]

I bought half of a square meter of cheap black linen ysterday. It cost me less than 6 bucks for both speakers.

I cut the fabric to dimensions and stapled it to the grills this afternoon. Then I put the badges. Here is the result: