How do I flatten out water swolen mdf.

[circlework]

Hi all. That's right, swollen has 2 L's. You passed the spell check!

I'm sure I've seen this subject here ... somewhere. Please point me in the right direction. Yes, I did try the search engine for a few hours, learnt lots, but not on how to make this disappear.

I have an old swolen patch on a top corner of a 2ax, about 1.5" x 2.5". Luckily, the veneer hasn't cracked ... yet.

Would the correct method be to place a wet towel over the affected patch and use an iron to steam it, then clamp it down, or is there a better way?

Cheers,

Daryl

[Glenn E]

Hi Daryl, check out this web link which might be helpful. http://www.ehow.com/how_6159031_repair-doors-particle-board-swelling.html

Glenn

[Anthropologo]

Hey there,

I had an AR-92 with a badly swollen section about 3" tall that extended across the back base of the cabinet and was successful in treating it like autobody rust/rot.

I used a razor saw to remove the bulged part flush with the cabinet frame and then a grapefruit spoon to scrape out the remaining decomposed mdf until I hit solid material.

I then used Bondo auto body filler in the mdf cavity, waited for it to cure, sanded smooth the top and feathered in the edges. After some additional finish sanding over the entire surface, sprayed it with a color of espresso semi-gloss and it looks pretty good (there are pics in my thread about Austin AR finds).

Note though - I ended up painting any non-veneered surface on both cabinets with the aforementioned espresso color (think it was Rustoleum). It was a bit of taping, but I think result was worth effort.

Hope this helps,

cheers

[dynaco_dan]

Hi Daryl

Any chance of a few photos of this area, please?

I posted a suggestion here of a drop of water being placed in a small depression and heating it with a soldering iron.

With a small depression and care the veneer may raise to it's near perfect position again.

This may have been a Lee Valley tip, not mine.

This would also be substituted with a damp cloth and and heated iron to raise the veneer, but take care as the entire area may lift, beyond the intended repair.

These two ideas were for depressions, not raised humps.

I would not add any more moisture to the raised area.

Particle board and other wood products usually swell with moisture.

I remember many year ago leaning a few pieces of particle board against a wall and the bottom edges got wet.

It was 3/4" stock and where it swelled on the bottom edge, well over 1" thick, and crumbly.

I just visited that suggested link, it is for laminated Arborite type cupboards, not veneers.

There is very likely another one or two suggestions that others may come forth with here, Daryl.

Please await for other advice before attempting any repairs.

My only advice at this time is, and don't consider me an expert by any means, sand down the hump and buy some walnut veneer.

Cut into the damaged area with a plane type tool to remove wood just lower than the veneer thickness and either patch or overlay the entire surface of that side at least.

[dynaco_dan]

Hey there,

I had an AR-92 with a badly swollen section about 3" tall that extended across the back base of the cabinet and was successful in treating it like autobody rust/rot.

I used a razor saw to remove the bulged part flush with the cabinet frame and then a grapefruit spoon to scrape out the remaining decomposed mdf until I hit solid material.

I then used Bondo auto body filler in the mdf cavity, waited for it to cure, sanded smooth the top and feathered in the edges. After some additional finish sanding over the entire surface, sprayed it with a color of espresso semi-gloss and it looks pretty good (there are pics in my thread about Austin AR finds).

Note though - I ended up painting any non-veneered surface on both cabinets with the aforementioned espresso color (think it was Rustoleum). It was a bit of taping, but I think result was worth effort.

Hope this helps,

cheers

Hi there

Any chance of before and after photos, please.

[genek]

You really can't. Several tons of pressure with heat are used to compress wood particles into engineered panels, and would be required to do it again properly. The proper repair technique would be to delaminate the veneer, grind away the swollen patch, use epoxy filler to reconstitute a firm substrate and then sand smooth and reveneer. If it's later, paper-thin veneer, you won't be able to delaminate and reattach the original veneer and will just have to apply a new one.

[circlework]

Hi all.

Just included pics of the top, which the previous owner used as the bottom (speaker upside down) as evidenced by the scratching to the swollen area..

Thanks for your input thus far.

I haven't done anything on this yet ... awaiting your final consensus. I'm actually hoping there is a solution whereby I don't have to replace any veneer and if I don't get a solution here, I'll try watered down glue injection with heat and pressing under a steel plate. Luckily, the area is directly above the baffle board and just maybe able to take a bit of pressure.

Daryl.

[genek]

How much is the surface actually raised? Can you shoot a straight-on shot from the side that shows the profile of the swelling?

You're at a corner, so if the veneer has enough thickness there's a chance you could lift the corner, get in there with a scraper and remove the swollen material. Glue injection will not work unless you can apply enough pressure to actually crush the swollen material. Otherwise, you will just add even more material to bubble the veneer. If you put anything in there that moistens the swolen material, it is just going to swell even more and make the problem worse.

[JKent]

Gene's right. Any added dampness will make it worse. Maybe just leave it as-is. You may be the only person who notices.

But here's another question: Are you sure those are 2ax's? That stepped frame on the front is typical of KLH speakers, like the 17 but I've never seen ARs like that. How 'bout some more photos (front and back)? Just curious...............

Kent

[genek]

Probably the Euro cabinet.

[JKent]

Ah!

Nevermind

[Pete B]

Something that I came up with for a kitchen counter that swelled.

Your problem is at a corner I believe? If it is at the back, use a drill

bit slightly larger than the amount that it swelled and drill a line of

holes from the unfinished back into the area to remove some material.

Be sure to go a bit beyond the swelled area to be sure to get it all.

Test with clamps to see that you can compress it back down then

add woodworkers glue in the holes in such a way that gravity pulls

it in. You can use an unfolded paper clip to help push the glue in,

clamp and let dry. It worked perfectly when I did it.

[JKent]

Clever idea Pete and worth a try. Looks like the swelling is near the front edge but as long as he can get in there with a drill it may work. If I may add a couple of thoughts:

• Use some sort of depth gauge to be sure not to drill right through to the veneer.
  
• A Forstner bit bay work well because it is rather large and flat
  
• Mix some sawdust with the woodworkers glue or (my favorite) epoxy
  

Kent

[genek]

This is at the front right corner of the speaker's top, so there's no way to approach it from the back. The best way to approach this would probably be a warm iron to soften the glue holding the veneer on, then working a sharp blade into the corner where there's a small gap and the bond has probably already been weakened by the water damage, to get to a condition like the second one in this article:

http://tlc.howstuffw...ture-veneer.htm

Then you scrape away the raised material, gouge out any that is crumbly below the surface, fill and glue the veneer down again and refinish it. Avoid using any filler that is water-based or solvent-based to avoid more swelling. Those little tubes of grey epoxy filler are great for this kind of repair. Let it harden until it's the consistency of a block of wax, then shave it smooth with a sharp blade so you don't have to sand and risk getting particles under the veneer. I like woodworker's cyanoacrylate for regluing veneer; it dries really fast and doesn't goop. Just put a book and something heavy on it for a half hour, and then fill any remaining gaps with wood filler before refinishing. The entire top of the speaker will need to be sanded bare and reoiled.

[Pete B]

Clever idea Pete and worth a try. Looks like the swelling is near the front edge but as long as he can get in there with a drill it may work. If I may add a couple of thoughts:

• Use some sort of depth gauge to be sure not to drill right through to the veneer.
  
• A Forstner bit bay work well because it is rather large and flat
  
• Mix some sawdust with the woodworkers glue or (my favorite) epoxy
  

Kent

The plan would be to drill parallel to the surface not up toward it. He could do it

going through the front lip veneer and then just redo that or fill the holes and try

to cover them as best as you can. Unfortunate that it is the front edge. If you

are going to try to lift veneer you could just remove and replace the front lip

veneer without risking damage to the surface veneer.

[circlework]

Thanks to those that replied. I really Do appreciate all your answers.

There's some great ideas there.

I've decided to try to lift the veneer above the swelling and scrape the swollen area flat, then re-glue the veneer.

Would a heat gun be a good idea to soften the glue? (used with care, of course).

Daryl.

[genek]

A heat gun would work if you're careful not to scorch the veneer. A better approach for a small spot is usually a steam iron. Fill it with water, set it on medium and move it around so it doesn't sit still. The temperature is more stable and the steam will help keep the veneer pliable.

[circlework]

Ok, thanks Gene. I'll give the iron a go and get back with the results ... positive I hope.

Must remember to take pics.

Daryl.

[genek]

Good luck. Go slowly, let the heat do the work on the glue and don't try to use force to speed up the process. Also, if the MDF is crumbly you'll need to dig it out until you hit solid material and fill before you glue the veneer back down or that spot will always be weak and susceptible to easy denting or bubbling.

[Pete B]

I'd want to have a lot of practice before doing it that way.

You could lift the veneer on the front lip, then use my method,

and glue the front veneer back down. If it goes wrong, then

you just have the front lip to repair.

[circlework]

*snip* I'd want to have a lot of practice before doing it that way.

I think I'm going to renege on this and leave it the way it is.

I'm thinking it's probably beyond my ability and certainly beyond my experience.

As well as the fact that I cant see it if I use it as the right hand speaker.

I'd like to thank everyone for their patience and advice, you've been great.

Daryl.

[genek]

Probably the safest thing to do. Give the whole cabinet a rubdown with a synthetic wood finishing pad and then wipe on some fresh oil. Using something a slight bit darker than the original it will also help conceal it.