Value of AR-3a

[Sonnar]

Hello samberger, nice find! The better way to enjoy AR 3 and 3a is to have 'em both. Same blood but different carachter , just like two sisters , or perhaps like mother and daughter. An AR 3a well driven is a very BIG sounding and precise speaker , while AR 3 are more delicate and ethereal IMHO , less powerful in the mid-range and  to me more extended in extreme highs , I think the 1" AR 3 would be the best dome tweeter I 've ever heard , extended and transparent as a Dynaudio but smoother and more musical. On the other hand, the extremely powerful and undistorted radiation of the AR 3a midrange has no competitors . Cheers, Adriano

[Sonnar]

Hello samberger, nice find! The better way to enjoy AR 3 and 3a is to have 'em both. Same blood but different carachter , just like two sisters , or perhaps like mother and daughter. An AR 3a well driven is a very BIG sounding and precise speaker , while AR 3 are more delicate and ethereal IMHO , less powerful in the mid-range and  to me more extended in extreme highs , I think the 1" AR 3 would be the best dome tweeter I 've ever heard , extended and transparent as a Dynaudio but smoother and more musical. On the other hand, the extremely powerful and undistorted radiation of the AR 3a midrange has no competitors . Cheers, Adriano

[Sonnar]

Hello samberger, nice find! The better way to enjoy AR 3 and 3a is to have 'em both. Same blood but different carachter , just like two sisters , or perhaps like mother and daughter. An AR 3a well driven is a very BIG sounding and precise speaker , while AR 3 are more delicate and ethereal IMHO , less powerful in the mid-range and  to me more extended in extreme highs , I think the 1" AR 3 would be the best dome tweeter I 've ever heard , extended and transparent as a Dynaudio but smoother and more musical. On the other hand, the extremely powerful and undistorted radiation of the AR 3a midrange has no competitors . Personally I prefer 3a with jazz , symphonic , and 3 for chamber and baroque music. Cheers, Adriano

[samberger0357]

Grazie Adriano!

 

Yes, I'm hoping I will be able to have my AR3's back in good working order in the not too distant future. It would be very nice to be able to swap back and forth with the 3a's. And I agree fully with your comparison. 

[onplane]

2 hours ago, samberger0357 said:

Is it possible that the 4100 just doesn't have enough steam to adequately power the 3a's on it's own? I find it hard to believe,

So do I! For years I drove my 3a's with a Heath receiver rated at 80 wpc and I never had a problem with bass.

Now, I eventually had problems with everything else!

My solution was to eliminate the pots and bi-amp.  So instead of using pots on the speakers to control voice, I use volume controls on the amps to gain COMPLETE control over voice.

Regards,

Jerry

 

[samberger0357]

I put the 4100 alone back in the mix, and while the bass response is better, I have to increase the overall volume quite a bit more to get the booming bass that the Crown delivers at lower levels. On the other hand, the overall tone seems more natural with the just the 4100. I think I like it better. 

No bi-amping for me. Too much of a hassle, and I'm of the belief that these speakers should give me everything I want with just one amp. 

[genek]

If "booming bass" is what you're looking for, you probably bought the wrong speakers.

[samberger0357]

5 minutes ago, genek said:

If "booming bass" is what you're looking for, you probably bought the wrong speakers.

Not at all what I'm looking for. In fact kind of what I was concerned I was going to get. But when I got a very moderate bass response(dependent on recording, positioning of the speakers) I was just mildly concerned that there might be a problem with them. I've since learned otherwise. 

It just a bit confusing when I read so many criticisms of the speaker as being boxy, muddy, etc. I'm hearing none of that. Proves once again that you really need to take whatever you read on the web(at least from those that don't have the credibility of many on this forum) with a tablespoon of salt. 

[genek]

Owners of modern speakers often use those terms to describe classic ARs, while we in turn often describe modern speakers with terms like "shrill," and "ear piercing." My experience has been that people who dislike ARs tend to have never spent any time in a concert hall listening to music that doesn't come out of big PA speakers.

If you would like to hear what a proper "boom" from your speakers sounds like, get yourself one of those recordings of the 1812 Overture that uses real cannons.

[samberger0357]

I agree Gene with everything you say. 

 

And I happen to have a few copies of 1812. Not my cup of tea these days. Mingus turned up loud provides all the boom I need. 

[samberger0357]

It's that kind of afternoon. I've decided after going back and forth that having the Crown in the system really lets these 3a's open up and shine in a way that just doesn't seem as necessary with the 3's The 3a's just sound better all around with 350 watts behind them, vs. 100. This is particularly evident during lower volume use. The great 3a bass is there in all of it's glory, whereas using just the 4100 the volume needs to be turned up quite a bit higher to be able to get the full effect. But at that point, it's too loud. 

Have others found that they typically need more watts playing the 3a's(later or earlier) then the 3's?

[Sonnar]

46 minutes ago, genek said:

Owners of modern speakers often use those terms to describe classic ARs, while we in turn often describe modern speakers with terms like "shrill," and "ear piercing." My experience has been that people who dislike ARs tend to have never spent any time in a concert hall listening to music that doesn't come out of big PA speakers.

If you would like to hear what a proper "boom" from your speakers sounds like, get yourself one of those recordings of the 1812 Overture that uses real cannons.

I totally agree. AR classic speakers were made to reproduce real acoustic instruments , and they sounds exactly like an orchestra in a concert hall. Booming it' not the right word to describe AR bass notes , probably samberger means powerful extended low ends , but they 're fast, clean , without traces of boominess . Surely modern , powerful amps stable on every load helps the AR 12" woofer to show its better performance , but an AR 3a is a big speaker with a very powerful radiation in terms of polar response and frequency extension , so they needs a medium/ large sized room more than a classic high efficiency horn directional speaker. In fact , You could have less problems of resonances in a small room with a big Klipsch LaScala , no real bass , very poor dispersion . 

[Sonnar]

29 minutes ago, samberger0357 said:

It's that kind of afternoon. I've decided after going back and forth that having the Crown in the system really lets these 3a's open up and shine in a way that just doesn't seem as necessary with the 3's The 3a's just sound better all around with 350 watts behind them, vs. 100. This is particularly evident during lower volume use. The great 3a bass is there in all of it's glory, whereas using just the 4100 the volume needs to be turned up quite a bit higher to be able to get the full effect. But at that point, it's too loud. 

Have others found that they typically need more watts playing the 3a's(later or earlier) then the 3's?

In terms of sensitivity , no . But in my experience, while 3's sounds good even at lower listening levels, 3a's seems to " open up " at medium/high levels , in particular with dynamic powerful moderm amps stable also on difficult low-z loads. It 's the same with LST or 10 Pi in my experience . 

[frankmarsi]

I give up!!

Tutto è perso!  Pero, non con tu, per i altri. 

Or in my dialect: "Che porcheri, Tutti 'e Pertutta!"

[onplane]

15 minutes ago, frankmarsi said:

I give up!!

Now, Frank, don't give up.  Didn't you get the memo?

Yep, your LST's sound better at very low volume levels (he, he, he,...)

Regards,

Jerry

[frankmarsi]

1 hour ago, onplane said:

Now, Frank, don't give up.  Didn't you get the memo?

Yep, your LST's sound better at very low volume levels (he, he, he,...)

Regards,

Jerry

Ya know Jerry I agree and thank you but, tell me "where does a man get a good oil change around here?"

"""(he, he, he,...)"""    That's the part I really liked"

Thank you.

My friend and yours, FM

 

*****NEWS FLASH*****: Just bought myself a second copy of:

ISAAC STERN The Great Violin Concertos Vol. 1 LP SET Vivaldi & Bach NM

 

My originally bought used copy/VPI washed is excellent and I just had to have another copy.

This recording is simply beautiful music!

[lakecat]

I think perhaps it is not so much all is lost....in as much as you need more cowbell.....get a mirror...

https://vimeo.com/55624839

[genek]

Somebody forget to take his meds...?

 

[frankmarsi]

Now, that’s funny! Especially for folks who played in rock bands way back when.

 

In summer of ’68 the three piece band I was in was desperate to fill in the empty spaces that the ‘ride cymbal’ couldn’t.  Wal-la, the cow-bell came to the rescue and although it was limited, the chics really liked it.

 

Say, lakecat how’s the LST phenom doing? Don’t you feel more complete about things now?

I know I do with mine.

You may not have many folks to speak to about them, but boy, it’s all so special just the same, isn’t it?

I’m curious about your preliminary perceptions.

You will find that the four mids and 12 incher are like the pillars of Hercules and will take as much as you can give them while beckoning for more. The tweeters are the short-coming and their weakest point, so be prepared for another solution to that if you really want to enjoy their powerful output capabilities. I strongly recommend the biggest amplifier you can afford. Beyond that aspect, they’re simply the best speakers I’ve ever lived with, all things considered.

Set-up/room placement is crucial. Their backs against the front wall is optimum.

FM

[lakecat]

Hi Frank....glad you liked that SNL classic....:)

I gotta tell ya....after playing these for a couple of days...I am still somewhat speechless about these awesome speakers. I have them temporarily set up in great room which is 32'x24' with 16' ceilings. Even at one to ten watts, the sound is powerful and so clean...amazing.

I just can't comprehend having these stacked.....at all. You are certainly in music nirvana. And yes, I may need a better amp. 

No wonder one never sees these for sale. Whoever owns them...keeps them....period. This seller got these in a trade twenty-five years ago and never hooked them up. The look on his face when we hooked it up was priceless.....cause if he had played them previously...I wouldn't have them right now.

[DavidDru]

Congrats Lakecat!  I failed to read this thread earlier and glad you pulled the trigger.  Kinda nice buying a pair of speakers that you don't have to fix, repair restore etc, huh?

Now, start playing with room placement and set-up to get the most out of them.  They up on stands?

[lakecat]

14 hours ago, DavidDru said:

Congrats Lakecat!  I failed to read this thread earlier and glad you pulled the trigger.  Kinda nice buying a pair of speakers that you don't have to fix, repair restore etc, huh?

Now, start playing with room placement and set-up to get the most out of them.  They up on stands?

Thanks David. I did have to install new surrounds and will eventually redo cabinets as I want this to be perfect and deserve that respect...:) There is some scratches on bottom and a very slight glass ring on one top.

I have them on my big ole Sansui SP-5500's for now and seems perfect height of about forty inches. That wall is the only place I can set them. This room is big but is sunken so stairs on each side of room and fireplace in one corner.

[samberger0357]

On 10/29/2016 at 5:49 PM, frankmarsi said:

I

On 10/28/2016 at 7:59 PM, samberger0357 said:

 

 

 

On 10/28/2016 at 7:59 PM, samberger0357 said:

 

That's my exercise. Do it all the time with several other pairs of speakers that I own. Much more satisfying then just going to the gym and lifting barbells. 

 

 

ILooks like the workouts are about to commence. 

Yes, the 3's are back in rotation, and out of the gate what I hear immediately is a much more realistic bass, and overall tonal balance that the 3a's exaggerate. I've been playing around with amps over the last couple days, moving the Crown XLS 1000 out in favor of my Adcom GFA 5400(version 1). At 200 watts it's not as hefty as the the Crown, but it's warmer( I hear just the opposite when it comes to complaints of it, but with a darker speaker like the 3/3a, I think it's a perfect match), and provides a fuller presentation. On the 3a, that resulted in a huge bass response. I was finally getting the sound that I had heard about. Enormous. Had to move the speakers away from the wall a good 3-5 feet to tame it some. 

The 3's however, don't generate that type of response. Oh yeah the bass is there, and it's deep, but it's simply not the big huge whomp that the 3a is delivering. A little lighter on the thump, but solid and satisfying. I love it.

I'm going to do some more comparisons with different types of music(no 1812 Overture, however) for my own satisfaction. But now with this embarrassment of riches, my biggest problem is where am I going to set up a second system so I can have both of these amazing(and beautiful) speakers in use at my beckon whim. 

[Sonnar]

I don 't ever noticed big differences between AR 3's and 3a's bass. The 3a is slightly more prominent in the midbass region , but that 's all. Do You tested 3a floorstanding? If so, You have a huge reinforcement on bass notes. 

[samberger0357]

 No both on the same stands as you see in the picture.

Adriano, both your 3 and 3a are of the cloth woofer variety, yes? If so, I would assume that there wouldn't be much, if any difference between them from that standpoint since they're both using the same woofer.  I wonder if  what I'm hearing is due to the age of the 3 woofer, while the 3a just recently had their woofer's refoamed? So in essence, they're brand new.