Just Got AR 9's ! New Woofers out of Phase, Questions...

[Guest]

I just purchased a set of old 9's in absolutely pristine condition here in Tampa.

The previous owner purchased 4 new woofers and installed them.

i took them home, hooked em up, they had great bass, but didint sound too good ??

While listening to an old Star Trek, Shatners voice didnt sound right, so I reversed the phase of the left speaker, and the upper array is out of phase with the right upper array !

Voices and imaging returned, but the woofers are now out of phase !

I know, simply reverse the bottom terminals to one of the woofers, but I am going in.

I plan to take a lantern battery, and test ALL the woofers, etc, make sure the stuffing is replaced correctly, and MOST of all, once I am sure its ok, Silicone seal all the drivers.

How easy is it to get at the crossover and change caps, or to at least resolder everything, and possibly change out the caps.

I have read pros and cons, what is the consensus ?

Whadda think about the silicone ?

How about soundcoating the inside of the cabinets, or anything else I should do while I am in there.

Oh, I pulled the domes, checked them for Phase, and my instincts tell me to solder them, discard the gaskets, since one is missing, and silicone them ?

Should I ?

How about Rope Caulking the driver baskets to damp vibration, anyone tried this ?

God, how did I ever miss out on these speakers when they were new ?

I love the voicing of these, no need at all for tone controls.

Speech is very good, although not as good as my little KEF Q1's, nor is the imaging astounding either, but its acceptable.

But when you put the bass capability, and that wonderful midrange purity, and an uncanny ability to reveal detail w/o ANY brightness or game playing in the presence region, and the ability to really rock, it sure makes 9 hard to beat!

I am using Tube line stage, it really helps out in the imaging department

These babys are incredible, you ought to hear them driven by my Audire Parlando !

Parlando is 85 lbs of pure class A w/16 50mhz output devices the size of quarters per side, 208,000 uf of capacitance, etc.

The low impedance turns Parlando loose, then watch out !

The guy named Sean is absolutely correct, these things need juice, big time!

Just for kicks, tried them with an Adcom 2535, basically 2 - 535 amps on same chassis in vertical bi amp, just ok, tried JVC RXDP 9 THX receiver, 235 wpc into 4, ok, Parasound HCA 500, ok, I couldnt make them sound bad, but Sean, you are 100% correct, owners of these are shortchanging them selves w/o a big butt kicking amp.

The Parlando makes them breathe, and I have took pictures right off the wall on my kids bass CD !

I havent been able to print out the owners manual yet, but should they be listened to toed in, or straight ahead ?

I am listening with them in a equilateral triangle, firing straight ahead.

I guess everyone can see that I am having the time of my life with the "Bruisers from Boston" Ha Ha !

I have owned Quads, Soundlabs, 801's, KEF 107, etc, and the 9 has a lot going for it.

I used to read Absolute Sound, Stereophile, etc, I dont recall this speaker ever being reviewed ?

Was it ?

IF someone ever doid review this fine product and Didnt like it, IMHO, they missed the boat !

This baby sounds like music, I cant wait to get into it, and perhaps give it the TLC it deserves and the benefit of having its possibly leaky caps replaced with something better ?

Any opinions, and our thoughts ?

Thanks !

[ToastedAlmond]

They were designed to be placed within 2" of the wall behind them. The owners manny also recommends at least 3' of distance between the outer woofers and the side walls. This is to ensure the deepest low end response. Mine fire straight ahead with no toe-in.

Mine image like no tomorrow. Is your "acoustic blanket" still installed?

I recently took possesion of a Onkyo M-5090 power amp to drive the woofs alone. Rated at 200wpc @ 8, 300wpc @ 4, and god knows what driving the woofs that dip down below 3. It sounds fine. I am lazy, and need time to replace the Carver "150" Receiver that I am using to drive the mids and tweets, with my previous woofer amp, a Onkyo M-506RS (130wpc @ 8,170wpc @ 4).

Toasted Almond

[Guest Barrydor]

>I just purchased a set of old 9's in absolutely pristine

>condition here in Tampa.

Congratulations!

>I know, simply reverse the bottom terminals to one of the

>woofers, but I am going in.

The crossover schematic is on this site. Check all of the wiring - it is color coded

>I plan to take a lantern battery, and test ALL the woofers,

When woofer cone moves OUT, terminal connected to battery + is +

>make sure the stuffing is replaced correctly

There is no stuffing in the lower cabinet. Don't worry when you go in & find it empty

>Silicone seal all the drivers

Not good if you need to remove them again - I use rope caulk

>How easy is it to get at the crossover and change caps, or to

>at least resolder everything, and possibly change out the

>caps.

Not hard, but see how they sound as is before you consider soldering, removing, etc.

>Whadda think about the silicone ?

See comment above

>How about soundcoating the inside of the cabinets, or anything

>else I should do while I am in there.

I replaced the old binding posts on mine as they were worn. Also, check the tape holding the upper driver wires from rattling. It sometimes dries out and falls apart. I augmented mine with a couple of tie wraps

>Oh, I pulled the domes, checked them for Phase, and my

>instincts tell me to solder them, discard the gaskets, since

>one is missing, and silicone them ?

Again, rope caulk works well for me. Soldering is optional and in my humble opinion, unnecessary if the terminals are tight and not corroded. I would as soon wipe a small amount of Caig Pro Gold contact cleaner on the terminal and just replace the faston. Easier if you need to remove the driver later

>How about Rope Caulking the driver baskets to damp vibration,

>anyone tried this ?

I have not. It shouldn't do any harm

>God, how did I ever miss out on these speakers when they were

>new ?

You didn't buy them

>I am using Tube line stage, it really helps out in the imaging

>department

I use a tubed Van Alstine Transcendance 6

>The Parlando makes them breathe, and I have took pictures

>right off the wall on my kids bass CD !

Try the heartbeat in the beginning of Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon- the AR9 will actually reproduce it. And you can break windows with Crystal Method

>I havent been able to print out the owners manual yet, but

>should they be listened to toed in, or straight ahead ?

>I am listening with them in a equilateral triangle, firing

>straight ahead.

I tried toeing mine in and it did not make much difference as I listen in the far field and the acoustical power distribution of the AR9 is flat over a wide horizontal angle. I think straight on is fine. You want to put them close to the wall, though

>perhaps give it the TLC it deserves and the benefit of having

>its possibly leaky caps replaced with something better ?

Mine have new caps, but I recommend seeing how they sound as they are before considering any changes. Many AR speakers are still running with original caps

Me and my AR9s are in Bradenton. If there is anything I can do to help you further, please feel free to shoot me an e-mail at barrydor@yahoo.com

Welcome to the club!

Barry

[Guest]

Thanks for the reply Barry!

I live in Brandon, and found these in the Tampa Tribune !

The original owner just bought Quad 989's, and I think he either replaced the woofers himself, OR he had em replaced.

To tell U the truth, I am not sure if the upper array, or the woofers are out of phase,, but something sure is!

I one thing for sure, when the two upper arrays are in phase, the woofers arent !

I wont know fer sure till I get into it what he did ?

Of course, if you biamp, one could simply reverse the amplifier wires around, but thats hokey to me, I want em right.

Mine are absolutely pristine, the only thing even a bit unsightly is the aftermath of a bored Cat !

And its just a tiny spot, I can minimize it.

The owmer said he purchased new woofers, and they look it.

As you know, there are Butchers here in Tampa operating Speaker Repair shops !

I have seen the murder, firsthand.

The woofers do look new, however, the lower mids look like the glue is softening near the surround and dust cap, is this normal ?

Perhaps he had em refoamed ?

No worries, AR assured me they have all the parts, and if need be someday I could send them out to b e refoamed.

I am going to Bradenton to clean a roof, do U know where the Inlets Subdivision is ?

My email is ka7niq@yahoo.com, shoot me an email, I would like to call you, if thats ok?

Chris

[ar_pro]

Congrats on your new AR-9s...you're in for something special!

Postioning at least 3' from the side walls is *very* important - especially if you're looking to optimize low-end response...toe-in shouldn't be necessary, unless your listening position is relatively close.

Rope caulking makes an excellent gasket, with a solid seal...silicone will be very messy, should you need to re-enter the cabinet. Good advice on checking the harness tape for age, that's not uncommon.

After three AR-9 restorations, I've found soldering the connections to be worthwhile, along with replacing the outdated dual banana jacks for a more solid connection to the amplifier. Like many guys, I haven't come across a faulty crossover cap, yet. Hopefully, once you've gotten your phase problems worked out (and maybe pre-emptively re-foamed the 8" drivers), you can seal the cabinet up for another 20 years! Oh yes, now would be a fine time to add spiked feet.

[administrator]

Regarding the crossover schematic .. one of the last major items in the pipe is an update to the AR-9 crossover information. Sean and Barry have both reviewed what is online extensively and both came to the conclusion that there needs to be an update. I do not know if we have been able to figure out whether the updates are due to changes in the AR-9 crossover over its lifespan or if the current document is just wrong. I'm sure this discussion will open up again when the new documents are online.

So .. I should have Barry's reworked crossover schematic up soon, this week.

Forgot to mention .. if Tim Holl is lurking around, maybe he could solve this for us too. I'm not sure if he visits here. I sent an email once upon a time and didn't hear back from him. I didn't want to be bothersome so I didn't try again.

Mark

[Guest]

I am going to take Barrys advice, and use rope caulk instead of silicone, and look into the spiked feet as well.

I am very fortunate, Barry is rather close to me, less than 40 miles !

Thanks!