AR 12" woofer

[Guest Brian_D]

I see the 12" woofer from AR on ebay every now and again... There semes to be some confusion by the sellers as to which speakers they fit/were used in.

For instance, right now, item number 3011354753 says that it is for the 11, 10 and 58, but also states that it will fit the 3a.

Also, item number 3011113740 says it is for the 3a, 10, 11 and 9, but doesn't mention the 58.

I am in need of two of these woofers for my custom LFE unit, but I don't want to buy two mismatched woofers, but I'm not going to pay $200 for drivers only! (Item number 3010466941)

Was this woofer the only 12" (11") that AR used in this era? That would be easy, but I'm skeptical.

Little Help?

[Guest dogmeninreno]

>I see the 12" woofer from AR on ebay every now and again...

>There semes to be some confusion by the sellers as to which

>speakers they fit/were used in.

>

>For instance, right now, item number 3011354753 says that it

>is for the 11, 10 and 58, but also states that it will fit the

>3a.

>

>Also, item number 3011113740 says it is for the 3a, 10, 11 and

>9, but doesn't mention the 58.

>

>I am in need of two of these woofers for my custom LFE unit,

>but I don't want to buy two mismatched woofers, but I'm not

>going to pay $200 for drivers only! (Item number 3010466941)

>

>Was this woofer the only 12" (11") that AR used in this era?

>That would be easy, but I'm skeptical.

>

>Little Help?

What exact woofers are you looking for? I have some refoamed AR3a 11" originals and some AR3 with cloth surrounds. Refoaming is about $40.00 -$45.00ea with freight unless you have the time and patience to do it yourself. I'd say $200.00 is pretty decent if they are original and refoamed. Let me know? Dale in Reno.....

[Guest dogmeninreno]

I should add after looking at the eBay auctions that the first two look like a matched set for the AR3a andothers. I am not familiar with the AR58 so cannot help. The $199.00 set are appear to be the earlier woofers from the AR3's. Both are fine choices as far as I am concerned. Dale

[Steve F]

The very first 58's were essentially a bookshelf-sized 91, with the same semi horn-loaded dome midrange and 3/4" tweeter. It was a perfectly excellent speaker, although very short-lived in that guise. It used the same woofer as the 91, which I believe was the same as the one in the 9.

The later 3a's, the LST, and the 10Pi/11 used the same woofers. The lit for the 11 explicitly states that it's the same woofer as the 3a. I'm not certain if the 3a-LST-11 woofer is completely interchangeable with the 9-91-58. They all have the same truncated frame, but I'm not completely sure of their electrical/mechanical parameters.

BTW Brian, allow me to vent my obsession about historical accuracy. I'm constantly irked by the "looseness" with which some other sources and suppliers refer to the classic AR 12-inch woofer as an "11-inch" woofer. Don't let anyone else perpetuate the myth and inaccuracy of the "11-inch" woofer. There's no such thing.

See my previous posts:

#1751, "RE: Real McCoy ! New AR eyeball mid"

In response to Reply #0

>11" Woofer part #1210003-2

Aren't we tired of outsiders calling the AR 12-inch woofer an "11-inch" woofer?

People should know better, for two reasons:

1. Industry-standard practice is to measure the frame diameter of a woofer, NOT the piston diameter or the surround diameter. Measured this way, the 3a's woofer is 12 inches. Any woofer--AR's, KLH's, Advent's, anyone's-- would be less than the formal measurement if you went strictly by piston diameter.

No one is trying to "get away" with anything or fool anyone. It's just the standard way that drivers are identified.

This leads to reason no. 2

2. AR had 10-inch woofers and 12-inch woofers. If some parts supplier insists on foolishly and inaccurately referring to an AR 12-inch woofer as an "11-inch" woofer, then there is the all-too-real possibility of a less experienced hobbyist ordering the wrong driver for their speaker.

AR called it a 12-inch woofer. For the sake of industry-standard practice, ordering accuracy, and historical consistency, the woofer should be called what it is: a 12-inch woofer. Period. People need to stop this nonsense.

Steve F.

#1756, "RE: Real McCoy ! New AR eyeball mid"

In response to Reply #5

The AR 12" woofer measures 12" across the wide part of the frame, 11.5" across the truncated section of the frame, 9.5" from mid-surround to mid-surround, and 8.5" from the inside of the surround (the actual "cone" diameter). Smaller drivers are correspondingly smaller. As I said, driver diameters are wider than the actual cone measurement, but this is just the way the industry measures drivers.

The issues with Layne and others calling the 3a/LST woofer an 11" woofer are these:

1) First and foremost, it serves no useful purpose. Calling the driver an 11" driver does not impart any new, helpful information to the end user. How do you benefit by Layne intentionally mis-identifying the woofer as an 11" woofer? The answer is, of course, you don't benefit at all. It's just bad information on their part, potentially misleading, and historically inaccurate.

2) It seems as if Layne and others want to demonstrate how clever and discerning they are by their "discovery" of the actual size of this well-known, historically-significant woofer. It's almost as if their thought process is, "Well, all you hobbyists out there THINK it's a 12" woofer, but we're the real experts, and we've discovered that it's only an 11" woofer."

It's so childish. Calling it an 11" woofer benefits no one, confuses the issue, incorrectly re-writes history, ignores industry standard measurement practices--all for the sake of what? Convincing themselves that they've "discovered" something? Padding their own ego?

I have zero tolerance for non-productive, wasted communication that imparts inaccurate data.

Steve F.