pb8000 Posted October 28, 2011 Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 Thanks for the help and the alternative suggestions. Since I want to restore rather than change the AR4x and can’t get replacement original tweeters, I am going to try the PE phenolic tweeters with the 2nd order high pass filter to adjust the crossover as recommended by Carl. If I were to try a different type of tweeter for the 2-way AR4x instead of restoring it, I would try to adapt the 1 1/2" dome midrange that is in the AR5s (which I have) to the AR4x. ( I may get another set of AR4x and try it- but I expect it would require some additional crossover mod) That midrange driver is, in my opinion, the heart of the AR5. It has wonderful tone. I will let you know how this sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michiganpat Posted October 28, 2011 Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 Thanks for the help and the alternative suggestions. Since I want to restore rather than change the AR4x and can’t get replacement original tweeters, I am going to try the PE phenolic tweeters with the 2nd order high pass filter to adjust the crossover as recommended by Carl. If I were to try a different type of tweeter for the 2-way AR4x instead of restoring it, I would try to adapt the 1 1/2" dome midrange that is in the AR5s (which I have) to the AR4x. ( I may get another set of AR4x and try it- but I expect it would require some additional crossover mod) That midrange driver is, in my opinion, the heart of the AR5. It has wonderful tone. I will let you know how this sounds.well, switching to anything other than the original tweeter is changing or modifying the speaker.....so, whether you use the phenolic ring tweet, or a modern dome tweet, you're changing the original....IIRC Zilch found that the tang band I linked to worked very well without ANY crossover mods, the only thing was needing to fabricate an adapter plate to fit the larger cabinet opening (so no cabinet alterning mods), and a felt ring around the tweet....the AR5's mid wouldn't be a good match, IMHO as 1) it's big, so cabinet mods would be necessary and 2) it doesn't have the necessary upper frequency extension, so you'd still need some sort of tweeter/supertweeter to fill in the top....if you wanted an "all AR" solution, I'd replace the tweet with some used tweets from the AR 4XA,6,7,8,17,18,93,94,18S,18B,28S,28B,rock partner, etc...the Roy Allison designed dome/cone hybrid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlspeak Posted October 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 if you wanted, search audiokarma for some of Zilch's work with the 4x....might want to try/verify his work he did using this tweeter:http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-822After a lot of searching, I found Z's work you referenced. The SE series TB tweet is no longer available. They (PE) offer the SD now. Z had some issues mating it with the original AR woofer, so he replaced it with a JBL 116. If I get into fool'n with the SD tweet & original AR woofers, I'd probably end up doing more changes than verifying Z's work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michiganpat Posted October 28, 2011 Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 After a lot of searching, I found Z's work you referenced. The SE series TB tweet is no longer available. They (PE) offer the SD now. Z had some issues mating it with the original AR woofer, so he replaced it with a JBL 116. If I get into fool'n with the SD tweet & original AR woofers, I'd probably end up doing more changes than verifying Z's work.here's the specific Zilch posts:http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1388925&postcount=71http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1391664&postcount=72http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1391717&postcount=73the tang band part # referred to in the first link (Tang Band 28-847SD) is what I linked to off the PE website.the 2nd link shows a very similar measured response between the old AR cone and the TB dome (a little less peak in the 1-1.5khz region for the TB)the first point in the 3rd link shows/describes response as a "drop in" with the only other change swapping the pot for an 8 ohm L-Pad, where there is a slight peak at 1khz , and a slight dip at 2khz, but still +/- 3db...note, it looks like measured response is marginally flatter with the tweeter polarity reversed...yeah, he did continue the exercise by moving to the JBL woof, but looks like he was aiming for trying to flatten response to +/- 1.5db....guess it would be interesting to compare the phenolic ring tweet version "drop in" without crossover mods to the T-B version "drop in", granted the T-B's are $10 more each...but guess I've listened to a few different versions of the PR tweet, and never cared for it over a soft dome... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlspeak Posted October 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 Stay tuned Pat. Something may show up in the mods & tweaks forum someday (where this discussion belongs) - if I ever can get caught up on fixing other people's speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genek Posted October 28, 2011 Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 Stay tuned Pat. Something may show up in the mods & tweaks forum someday (where this discussion belongs) - if I ever can get caught up on fixing other people's speakers.It'll get there eventually. I'm mulling over whether to move the entire topic or split it, and where to split it, because it starts out as speaker history and ends up as mods and tweaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 another option: There was discussion over on AK about replacing the tweets with horns as an "eWave" mod.Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlspeak Posted October 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 another option: There was discussion over on AK about replacing the tweets with horns as an "eWave" mod.Kent Yeah, that was Zilch's next move after playing with the dome tweeter. Too bad he passed away. I suspect he would have e-waved the 3a eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michiganpat Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Yeah, that was Zilch's next move after playing with the dome tweeter. Too bad he passed away. I suspect he would have e-waved the 3a eventually. you'll have to search the E-wave threads on techtalk and audiokarma...I think I saw a 4x and 2ax ewave in those threads, and I thought the 4x was done my zilch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 you'll have to search the E-wave threads on techtalk and audiokarma...I think I saw a 4x and 2ax ewave in those threads, and I thought the 4x was done my zilchhttp://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2132878&highlight=ar4x#post2132878 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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