Early AR-2axs

[Horswispr]

I recently acquired a pair of early AR-2axs. They have the crown woofers and screens with the small AR tags and a script "a" attached. I've read somewhere that AR did not sell AR-2axs as matched pairs, yet the serial numbers on these are sequential and quite low: 01078 and 01079. Does anyone know how to tell how early these are and whether they should be regarded as especially "collectible" given their early vintage? I was able to get all of the drivers working, though there are the usual "sweet spots," and I'm in the process of restoring the cabinets, which will be quite close to mint when I'm done. I'm avoiding the use of any stains or waxy finishes, as I want to keep these as "original" as possible. The grain is beautiful, as it often is on early AR speakers. Thanks for any comments.

[genek]

Post photos and someone will probably be able to help you. Are you sure these are 2ax and not 2a?

[Horswispr]

All of the cards on the back say AR-2ax. In fact, the warranty cards are still affixed to the papers on back. The drivers are typical AR-2ax, with the orage/red tweeters, the flat mids, and the crown (early AR-2ax) woofers. I'll try to take pictures soon.

Post photos and someone will probably be able to help you. Are you sure these are 2ax and not 2a?

[dynaco_dan]

All of the cards on the back say AR-2ax. In fact, the warranty cards are still affixed to the papers on back. The drivers are typical AR-2ax, with the orage/red tweeters, the flat mids, and the crown (early AR-2ax) woofers. I'll try to take pictures soon.

Hi there

You realize now that becuase the warantee cards were not mailed in, there is no longer any warantee. LOL

[genek]

We definitely want to see pictures. As far as anyone here knows, 2ax's always had the rectangular nameplates and didn't use the square plate and the "a" pin. If yours are all original, you may have something unusual.

[Horswispr]

Interesting about the name plates. I'll try to take photos this weekend. Is it possible that the very earliest AR2axs were made out of left-over AR2a cabinets (I think the AR2ax came into being in 1969, the same year the AR2a was discontinued), with the flat midranges replacing the two angled mids of the AR2as? The screen cutouts of this pair look like the cutouts for AR2as (there are three, not two). And it appears that the midranges were put in the cabinets as part of an "assembly" that would fit in the cutouts for the earlier AR2a angled mids. The screens were stapled or nailed to the front baffles, and the front baffles seem quite clean. My initial impression was that the screens had never been removed before the fella that passed these on to me took them off, but the goop behind the woofers seems unusually fresh and pliable for something 42 years old.

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We definitely want to see pictures. As far as anyone here knows, 2ax's always had the rectangular nameplates and didn't use the square plate and the "a" pin. If yours are all original, you may have something unusual.

[JKent]

We definitely want to see pictures. As far as anyone here knows, 2ax's always had the rectangular nameplates and didn't use the square plate and the "a" pin. If yours are all original, you may have something unusual.

No--early ones are as Horswispr described. Here are shots of mine: SN 41070 & 40214, purchased a couple of years ago from CSP member toastedalmond. I had to replace the tweeters, which had popped their phenolic domes. In this case I used later 2ax tweeters, courtesy of RoyC but if I were doing it again would probably use HiVi tweets. Grilles were re-covered, using Irish Linen from 1-2-3 Stitch, but the badges are original. So are the nice cast-aluminum frame woofers.

More photos and the whole saga of the restoration may be found here:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=4466&st=0&p=76185entry76185

Kent

[Horswispr]

They look really nice, Kent. Where did you get the fabric? The only structural difference between yours and mine (aside from the dark tweeters in yours) are the "cutouts" for the midranges in mine. It really does look like someone removed the "boards" that held the old paired mids and replaced them with boards holding the new ax mids...I didn't notice whether your screen frames had two cutouts or three. The fact that mine have three suggests that they may have originally been made for AR-2as.

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No--early ones are as Horswispr described. Here are shots of mine: SN 41070 & 40214, purchased a couple of years ago from CSP member toastedalmond. I had to replace the tweeters, which had popped their phenolic domes. In this case I used later 2ax tweeters, courtesy of RoyC but if I were doing it again would probably use HiVi tweets. Grilles were re-covered, using Irish Linen from 1-2-3 Stitch, but the badges are original. So are the nice cast-aluminum frame woofers.

More photos and the whole saga of the restoration may be found here:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=4466&st=0&p=76185entry76185

Kent

[JKent]

The fabric is from 1-2-3 Stitch, as recommended in the AR3a restoration guide

http://www.123stitch...pl?item=59-135X

It's the nicest IMHO.

My frames have 2 cutouts.

AR sold an upgrade kit for converting AR2a to 2ax. Yours may be a "factory upgrade", since you have the 2ax paper labels (or maybe that was part of the kit??). Or maybe they were just frugal and were using up the old baffles. The "patch" was part of the upgrade kit AFAIK.

Kent

[Horswispr]

"Irish Linen" from 1-2-3 Stitch. Got it.

[Steve F]

The fabric is from 1-2-3 Stitch, as recommended in the AR3a restoration guide

http://www.123stitch...pl?item=59-135X

It's the nicest IMHO.

My frames have 2 cutouts.

AR sold an upgrade kit for converting AR2a to 2ax. Yours may be a "factory upgrade", since you have the 2ax paper labels (or maybe that was part of the kit??). Or maybe they were just frugal and were using up the old baffles. The "patch" was part of the upgrade kit AFAIK.

Kent

Now we're really into "get a life" territory, but here goes: In all the lit I have, in all the speakers I've seen, every pic of an 'old' 2ax shows the "patchwork" baffle in the midrange area. All the pics of old 2ax's show the baffle area having the patch where the 2a's dual 5" mids used to be. I don't think AR ever upgraded the lit photos. It looks as if Kent's old 2ax's had a solid, non-patched baffle. It would would make sense that after the initial transition from 2a to 2ax production, the baffles would no longer be patched, but instead would be routed correctly for the then-new 3 1/2" mid.

Why AR never seemed to update their marketing photos to show a 'clean' baffle is just another indication of the typical lack of attention to Marketing that AR practiced back in those days.

Steve F.

[Horswispr]

Interesting info, actually. It's further evidence in support of the notion that what I have were early factory AR-2axs and not kit upgrades. I wonder if other good companies like KLH and Dynaco let marketing lag behind product changes. I've never seen KLH's literature mention the change from epoxied to screw-in woofers (KLH 6), and I've never seen a Dynaco add that shows the Scanspeak version of the A-25 (generally thought to be the earliest, but that's another unresolved one).

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Now we're really into "get a life" territory, but here goes: In all the lit I have, in all the speakers I've seen, every pic of an 'old' 2ax shows the "patchwork" baffle in the midrange area. All the pics of old 2ax's show the baffle area having the patch where the 2a's dual 5" mids used to be. I don't think AR ever upgraded the lit photos. It looks as if Kent's old 2ax's had a solid, non-patched baffle. It would would make sense that after the initial transition from 2a to 2ax production, the baffles would no longer be patched, but instead would be routed correctly for the then-new 3 1/2" mid.

Why AR never seemed to update their marketing photos to show a 'clean' baffle is just another indication of the typical lack of attention to Marketing that AR practiced back in those days.

Steve F.

[genek]

AR speakers of this period weren't built with removable grills, so they probably didn't see much reason to update images of things customers were never expected to see in real life. My 1975 2ax's have velcro-attached grills and very "clean" black baffles and back-wired tweeters, but I have no idea what year AR switched to that arrangement.

[dynaco_dan]

AR speakers of this period weren't built with removable grills, so they probably didn't see much reason to update images of things customers were never expected to see in real life. My 1975 2ax's have velcro-attached grills and very "clean" black baffles and back-wired tweeters, but I have no idea what year AR switched to that arrangement.

Hi there

AR did not show their new AR-3A 12" woofer photos with the foam surround for several years after they were using them in production.

They showed the old alnico magnet, cloth surround version.

It is my feeling that if AR started showing photos of any current models then buyers and dealers would not want the old stock.

Thereby dealers would have returned older stock for credit or exchange.

Customers would only want the latest and greatest models.

Imagine buying the pair of speakers and unwrapping them at home and after looking at the drivers with a flashlight through the

grille cloths, you find that you had two different speaker cabinet contents.

I am sure you would return one or both to the dealer for possibly exchange or refund, it would get messy.

I believe that there was a great going concern, Kaypro Computers, they were selling like hotcakes around 1990+/-.

They announced that a newer and more powerful computer model was coming soon.

Everyone stopped buying the current model and waited for the next model to arrive.

Sales stopped, cash flow ended, end of company.

It proved to be a dangerous announcement for that company.

Announcing a new or replacement model of anything can cause major issues for everyone.

If the new model is more money they may sellout the old model like wildfire.

If the new model is less money maybe the factory will be stuck with surplus old stock which they will probably

dump at distress prices later.

There either needs to be a straight model change or a gradual introduction, which AR did.

Personally I would have used a different model number.

I realize that the market share of the AR-2AX speaker was really large and they didn't want to lose that credibilty

with that model designation.

Definitely there was mixed stock and because there was no identifying marks on the cartons and no model designation changes

between the upgrades there would have been a lot of unhappy people involved.

Disregarding the woofer foam issue, how many of you would have wanted a mismatched pair or the older version when you

started reading reviews of the newer version?

It is quite common for the hidden opinions of just about everything, that when a new model comes out, the reviewers tell us what

was wrong with the previous version.

If the newer version was a dog, folks would run out and buy up the earlier version, leaving the factory stuck with the lemons.

I seem to remember reading a comment eons ago about, I believe, Audio Research, they would ship a new updated model to the dealers when the dealers

had barely received the previous model.

The dealers probably had to reduce their price to move the earlier stock.

You would not accept an older model, I am certain, at that price range or quality and Audio Research has a strong following for their quality.

When I bought my AR-3A's in 1970 I was buying the photo version, so I thought.

I wrote a few letters regarding the woofer differences.

I was assured that there was no audible difference.

Then the foam rot came along, mind you it took maybe 10 - 15 years for it to show up.

I do not believe there was any knowledge regarding future foam rot at that time.

JohnnyO please email me at dynaco_dan2@yahoo.ca personal

[Horswispr]

Interesting post. It actually brings up another (only tangentially related) question, though it's probably been addressed elsewhere. I like the older crown versions for their collector value (and not having to refoam them), but until this pair of AR-2axs came along, I thought I slightly preferred the sound (a bit tighter?) of the newer foam surround woofers to the classic "crown" cloth surround woofers. A friend of mine holds exactly the opposite view: He thinks the older crown woofers (in both AR-2axs and AR-3as) go deeper. The crown woofers of this early pair actually sound quite tight and deep to me, causing me to question my early assessment. Is there a "common wisdom" about which AR woofer sounds better? Or is this another topic for friendly debates?

[dynaco_dan]

Interesting post. It actually brings up another (only tangentially related) question, though it's probably been addressed elsewhere. I like the older crown versions for their collector value (and not having to refoam them), but until this pair of AR-2axs came along, I thought I slightly preferred the sound (a bit tighter?) of the newer foam surround woofers to the classic "crown" cloth surround woofers. A friend of mine holds exactly the opposite view: He thinks the older crown woofers (in both AR-2axs and AR-3as) go deeper. The crown woofers of this early pair actually sound quite tight and deep to me, causing me to question my early assessment. Is there a "common wisdom" about which AR woofer sounds better? Or is this another topic for friendly debates?

Hi there

Perhaps Carl would be able to access this issue.

He has the equipment and expertise to evaluate and test the 2 different woofers of the AR-2 and AR-3 series.

Whether he is so inclined and has the time and ability, we shall see.

This would not be just a 5 minute process and I would not expect Carl to offer to do a test match.

It would certainly be nice if he does offer to do it though.

A shootout between woofers, what a match for HBO.

From what I have read over time, the power handling is greater with the foam surround/ceramic magnet woofer than the

alnico/cloth surround woofer.

This was not AR officially released information, just my general reading.

I also assume that they rubber stamped the drivers after testing them.

Which may be quite a while before installation in the speaker enclosure.

Then the serialized card was stapled onto the rear of the enclosure, after testing the complete speaker and ready to ship.

AR, among many manufactures, may have kept books on serial number ranges produced per hour, shift, day, week or month, for their inventory purposes.

Moving, flooded basements, fires, careless or intended dumpster discard could account to why we do not have any such data today.

Remember this was pre-computer.

Other than the Dynaco's method of identifying their different products, such as, 19-1234567, would identify a model A-25 speaker,

1971 as the year of manufacturer and 23rd week of 1971, and 4567 is the serial number.

Can you imagine trying to have a dealer find consecutive serial numbers in his stock.

The extra work required to keep stock fresh and in an orderly manner would be prohibitive for business.