ar-5 help

[toolman]

I have acquired from a freind a pair of ar-5 era 1972 the woofers are gone and seems the mid ranges and tweeters are shot just wondering if these are worth fixing and where to find replacment part woofers mid range &tweeters & is this something with my limited knowledge(none) could do myself.

[JKent]

Hi Toolman and welcome.

You've come to the right place. I have not worked on AR5s myself but many members here have, and they are regarded as outstanding speakers, possibly rivaling the AR3a, so they may be worth fixing.

The woofers are gone as in missing or gone as in shot, kaput? If the foam surrounds are rotted away, that's a simple fix. If the woofers are physically missing, or there is damage beyond the surrounds, you can replace them. The AR2ax used the same woofer and these are often available on eBay or possibly here if you post a WTB in the For Sale/Wanted forum.

Are you sure your mids and tweets are shot? Often the problem is the pots (level controls). Do a little reading here and you will find out about corroded pots, cleaning them, and replacing with L-pads.

Bottom line: IF the woofers are gone AND the mids and tweeters are truly shot, it's probably not worth fixing them. You could probably get a few bucks for the cabinets if they are nice. Check those drivers with an ohmmeter before you write them off.

Be sure to check the Library section. There is a schematic for the AR5. Also--be SURE to download the AR3a restoration manual

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/library/acoustic_research/original_models_1954-1974/original_models_schematicss/restoring_the_ar-3a/restoring_the_ar-3a_full_pd.pdf

Much of what you find in the manual is applicable to the AR5.

Do your homework and get back to us regarding the condition of the woofers, mids and tweeters.

Kent

[Sax-son]

If your cabinets are in good shape, I think it is absolutely worth while. Sometimes it takes a while to gather all the pieces that you need, but the end result should be satisfying. I was given (2)pairs of Large Advent speakers. The cabinets were in excellent shape but the woofers were not even the original speakers. Like you, I did not know where to begin. However, from the information I received from the forum, I was able to get the original parts from e-bay and also refoam the surrounds. They came out great. I am still listening to them as I am writing this. Everyone in this forum is very helpful and should be able to walk you through it. Unfortunately, they are not making these any more so every pair saved is worth it. So long as it is somewhat economically within reason, I say go for it.

John

[toolman]

cabinets in xcellent shape my main reason for keeping woofers are gone mia both tweeters have broken wires gotta check out the mid range yet .

could someone point me in the right direction for replacement parts .

[JKent]

The ONLY satisfactory woofer is an an original AR. Post a "wanted" in the appropriate section on this forum:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showforum=10

The woofer is the same 10" one used in the 2ax, but I "think" you have to be sure to get the later version with the 4-hole steel basket and foam surrounds, not the early kind with cast aluminum basket and cloth surround [edit: see the next post. Some 6-hole woofers will fit]. Check your cabinet and see if there are just 4 holes to mount the woofer. Other resources: There are 2ax woofers for sale on eBay now. Or try eBay seller Vintage_AR.

Those front-wired tweeters are a real PITA, but if it's broken leads, you may be able to fix them. It is possible to add copper wire to the original [edit: the leads are copper so you can solder thin wire to them]. If that does not work, you can use the HiVi tweeter, with 0.05uH inductor, that Roy figured out. There is info about that in the "Mods" section.

The mid, I believe, is the same as the AR3a BUT an 8 ohm version. Again, those nasty front-wired arrangements. Keep your fingers crossed and HOPE they are still good. The only suitable replacements are genuine AR. Wait for a member who is familiar with the 5 to tell you if any other AR speaker shared that mid. I believe the 5 was essentially an AR3a in a 2ax cabinet, with the 10" woofer instead of the 12", but the 5 is an 8 ohm system while the 3a is 4 ohm, so the mids are not (AFAIK) interchangeable.

Hope this helps a bit, until an authority on the 5 replies.

Kent

[JKent]

Here's a little more information, provided by RoyC, who knows a lot about these speakers:

• the tweeters and woofers are the same as the later 2ax
• woofers are 6 OR 4 hole, but flange is later smaller size
• tweeters, like the 2ax with 3/4" dome tweeter, have copper voice coils and leads...no aluminum.

So the woofers and tweeters should not be a problem. btw--you can replace the front-wired tweets with back-wired. And it may not be worth it to seek out original AR tweeters. The HiVi mod that Roy perfected works beautifully.

Still waiting for the word on the mids. Roy will probably comment when he returns.

Kent

[toolman]

WOW all i can say is thanks kent really appreciate all the help hope someway someday can repay you with my limited knowledge

[JKent]

OK--here's the latest from RoyC (who's been away from his computer or I'm sure he'd reply himself).

"The AR-3a type mid will probably work with a 2.5 ohm resistor in series. The resistor would raise the dcr closer to that of the original AR-5/LST 2 mid. It would fit the hole and look the same".

So check the AR3a restoration guide, page 25, which discusses the mids. You can use mids from the 5 or LST/2 without modification, or, with the resistor you can use mids from the 3a, 11 and 10Pi. You can probably also use the mid from the AR303 but you would have to make changes in the crossover. Of course, if you are able & willing to make crossover changes there are probably lots of drivers that "could" work. Carl uses Seas 5" mids in his "AR3a super-mod." There's even an eBay seller offering Yamaha drivers for the AR3a. Crossover design is an art and a science that is certainly beyond me, so I don't recommend dropping in any driver other than an AR5 or equivalent, or an AR3a or equivalent.

Have you had a chance to check your mids? Best case of course is if they are good, because none of those subs are particularly easy to find. Keep your fingers crossed!

Kent

[toolman]

I,ve taken them to a professonail to have him take a look at them this project seemed a liitle over my head the repair man I chose came recomended by many folks in the music business .

[toolman]

WOW ouch well got my estimate $1200 - $1300 to replace woofers tweeters and midranges said crossovers were fine said it may need new slides this is wee bit out of my budget seems high but hey it is what it is if that the true cost to repair may just put cabinets and crossovers up for sale .

haven,t given up yet just a little set back 1300 WOW

[genek]

If this is someone who has access to a supply of original-spec drivers in good working condition, that might be a reasonable estimate. It would probably take about that much money's worth of time and cash to search out and acquire the parts. If it's to replace the original drivers with non-AR drivers, you'd be paying a lot of money to create a speaker that looks like an AR-5 but probably doesn't sound anything like an AR-5 is supposed to. If the crossovers really don't need rebuilding the rest is easy and your best bet is probably to start browsing eBay for drivers the way everybody else does.

[DON]

WOW ouch well got my estimate $1200 - $1300 to replace woofers tweeters and midranges said crossovers were fine said it may need new slides this is wee bit out of my budget seems high but hey it is what it is if that the true cost to repair may just put cabinets and crossovers up for sale .

haven,t given up yet just a little set back 1300 WOW

AR5s in very good shape can bring $500-$600 and up on e-bay. If you have nothing invested in these you may as well do some searching and pricing for the parts you need but if you decide not to fix them the cabinets can bring $100 if they're in very good shape.

[JKent]

All good points made here. I would just add a couple of questions and comments:

I'm skeptical about the crossovers being fine, since it is usually advisable to replace old capacitors. Easy to do yourself. No idea what "new slides" are.

Are you CERTAIN both mids and both tweets are totally shot?

As Roy pointed out, the 5s used the same woofers as later 2ax's. You can find them on eBay or place an ad here in the For Sale/Wanted section. Or it may be economical to buy a pair of complete, intact 2ax speakers, as long as they are the later ones. That would give you woofers AND tweeters.

Roy's "mod", using HiVi tweeters with inductors, works VERY well. I just put a pair in my AR3s and they sound good. AND they are modern and durable. A pair of tweeters and inductors from Parts Express will cost under $60.

The mids are the trickiest things. If you are absolutely sure yours are NG, watch eBay for a pair of AR5 mids (there's 1 on eBay now) OR (again, thanks Roy) try an AR-3a type mid with a 2.5 ohm resistor in series. AR3a "type" mids include AR11, 10pi, LST, maybe others.

Or, if you're not into DIY (and I'm guessing you're not), Don's advice is best: Sell the 5s and look for another pair. A nice pair sold recently on eBay for under $500. You can sell yours as-is, or sell the empty cabinets and sell the mids and tweets separately (even if not working. I just sold a defective AR3 mid and totally dead AR3 tweeter for $100).

I would NOT pay $1300 for repairs. For that price you could buy TWO pair of AR5s!

One more thought: You might want to mention where you are located. It's "possible" some other CSP member would be willing to help you with them.

And again--find out whether the tweets and mids are good. The pro you took them to "should" have been able to check them, unless he just wanted to sell all new drivers. If you really have no idea, there may be a member here who would check them for you (I have received help in that area from 3 members).

Good luck.

Kent

[RoyC]

WOW ouch well got my estimate $1200 - $1300 to replace woofers tweeters and midranges said crossovers were fine said it may need new slides this is wee bit out of my budget seems high but hey it is what it is if that the true cost to repair may just put cabinets and crossovers up for sale .

haven,t given up yet just a little set back 1300 WOW

That is highway robbery, especially if he isn't touching the crossovers.

Where are you located?

Roy

[michiganpat]

That is highway robbery, especially if he isn't touching the crossovers.

Where are you located?

Roy

no doubt...heck, I've got some refoamed AR2ax woofers (should be the same that came in the 5's), I'd sell you for a US Grant plus shipping, the tweets are the same as a later AR2ax, and usually can be found for $100/pr or so, or go with the hivi/inductor replacement for about $60 from parts express....

the mids would be the hardest things to find, you could see if Larry at vintage AR can repair them, I've heard he's had some success....

wonder how easily Carl's AR3a "supermod" kit could be adapted to a 5?

http://www.classicloudspeakerservices.com/supermod.html

X2 on location...

[dynaco_dan]

WOW ouch well got my estimate $1200 - $1300 to replace woofers tweeters and midranges said crossovers were fine said it may need new slides this is wee bit out of my budget seems high but hey it is what it is if that the true cost to repair may just put cabinets and crossovers up for sale .

haven,t given up yet just a little set back 1300 WOW

Hi there

I was too tired last night after spending 1 1/2 hour writing a response for this topic.

I accidently hit the oops key and everything went the way of the dodo bird and that is all she wrote.

A suggestion for write-ups, write for so long and save it, return and edit it at intervals.

At least the last part will still be saved and available for future editing.

Anyways.

That would be a fair price for two pairs of factory sealed, new old stock, AR-5 speakers IMO.

At $1,300.00 you might try to find a good pair of working AR-3A's.

It might help us if we see their itemized estimate and we can maybe comment further.

You may be stuck to pay for the estimate that you have, for their time at least, if you do not give them the go ahead.

The grille cloths may be damaged, the drivers and the crossovers may be damaged and the crossovers may have cut connections for their testing.

They may also just hand you the speaker boxes and a box with the pieces, rather than put the speakers back together again.

With the foam under the tweeter domes deterioration, a suitable alternate replacement should also be considered, if you must buy new tweeters.

There is no, exact, as in, brand new and original AR 3/4" tweeters available, but, there is visually close encounters.

The sonic quality, dispersion and power handling abilty of these tweeters, is exceptional, for the old drivers of course, in their day.

There is no exact current replacement, with all of those attributes, anything other than OEM will be a compromise, which you may be able to live with or not.

I have not read anywhere, if AR ever used fiberglass or other material under the domes, in early production units at least, other than this rotting foam material.

Apparently the pieces slip into the magnetic gap and cause audible distortion or other problems.

Another possible source for drivers might be someone with AR-LST 2's with damaged cabinets and is parting out the drivers, etc.

These are also exact repacements for the AR-5's drivers.

My thought might be for you using, used Allison dome tweeters, if they are electrically compatible and making an adaptor, if required.

I remember their having wide dispersion and were well reviewed.

An expert will quite likely comment on this idea.

Going down the line, a Dynaco/Seas or KLH or Dynaudio D28 tweeter might also be sonicly compatible if adapted to the hole.

The Seas is the more readily available and at attractive prices, used, but less dispersion, less extended frequency response and perhaps less transparency as well.

Using a 1 3/8" older AR-3/AR-2AX (equivalent drivers) dome tweeter and altering the crossover as required might be another thought.

This is not original ideas but possible options if you need to spend any money at all.

Good luck with your choices.

[toolman]

my six sense was telling me that est was a wee bit high going to pick up my cabinets this week and do a little more research .

thank you all for your input I myself am not a electric genius by far ( yes I can change a light bulb --- alone ) with what I read here I may give this project a whirl I like a challange.

I live in michigan on the east side in north warren

[dynaco_dan]

my six sense was telling me that est was a wee bit high going to pick up my cabinets this week and do a little more research .

thank you all for your input I myself am not a electric genius by far ( yes I can change a light bulb --- alone ) with what I read here I may give this project a whirl I like a challange.

I live in michigan on the east side in north warren

Hi there

I always need help to change a light bulb.

Usually I stand on someones shoulders and they turn around in a circle.

It works for me. LOL

[michiganpat]

my six sense was telling me that est was a wee bit high going to pick up my cabinets this week and do a little more research .

thank you all for your input I myself am not a electric genius by far ( yes I can change a light bulb --- alone ) with what I read here I may give this project a whirl I like a challange.

I live in michigan on the east side in north warren

you're not too far from my in laws (Pontiac)

if you really want a set of AR5's a better alternative might be keep these for spare parts, or use the cabinet for another project, and pick up the pair of AR5's on the detroit craigslist for $250...

I'm over in grand haven.

[dynaco_dan]

you're not too far from my in laws (Pontiac)

if you really want a set of AR5's a better alternative might be keep these for spare parts, or use the cabinet for another project, and pick up the pair of AR5's on the detroit craigslist for $250...

I'm over in grand haven.

Hi there

An excellent suggestion.