fairchance Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 This questions probably been answered here, but I can't find it. Since I'm loving my Ar2-ax's, I've got an itch to try the Ar3. Ebay prices are much higher for the 3's than the 3a's. Is it a rarity thing or were the 3's made better/sound better?thanks,Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexicomike Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Frankly, IMO, the best way to view AR speakers in the classic era (IMO, up to/including the LST) is that the top of the line in each series at the time was their best speaker. IOW, if there was a newer "version" - AR 3/AR3a; AR2/AR2a/AR2ax, the latest version was the best speaker. Whether it's the most currently valuable speaker is totally a different issue. That's not to say that someone might not personally prefer an earlier speaker for whatever reason but the performance of the later model was always better as was any A/B listening tests - and I did a ton of them back then. So I'd say that if you are wanting the better sounding speaker for serious listening, the 3a is superior to the 3. If it's more for a background or just use the woofer section (not uncommon) then either is fine. Again, remember that it is really unlikely that any of us have or will ever have AR speakers that match their performance when made. I suspect that if you could somehow obtain a brand new pair of 3As (or whatever) and compare them with a current pair, you'd be shocked at the difference. I like to think that my recapped/totally original AR speakers sound like they did 40 years ago but I'm confident they don't. Then again, neither do my ears - back then I could hear beyond 20khz; now my hearing signs off at around 13khz - not much of a high end test for any speaker. SO, with that in mind, If I was to factor in my personal hearing now, then there is probably little practical difference between a 3 and 3a except for the better dispersion of the 3a. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michiganpat Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 3's have the cloth surround alcino magnet woofer, the 3a's foam/ferrite magnet....the 3's have the orange 1 1/8" hard dome tweets, the 3a's the 3/4" paper dome...those are the biggest differences I can think of. the value difference is probably due to the woofers, IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexicomike Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 The switch from cloth to foam 12" woofers (3, 3A,) seems to have been a running change, not a model change. My original 3As bought in 1971 had cloth surround woofers and my current set, also from that same year per the stamps on the components has cloth surround woofers. My LSTs, (1973) have foam surround woofers. The difference in the performance of the 3/3a tweeter was substantial at the time though, as I said earlier, I probably could not now hear the freq response difference, though the dispersion would still be apparent assuming the tweeters/caps in both pairs of speakers were working equally well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlspeak Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 This questions probably been answered here, but I can't find it. Since I'm loving my Ar2-ax's, I've got an itch to try the Ar3. Ebay prices are much higher for the 3's than the 3a's. Is it a rarity thing or were the 3's made better/sound better?thanks,DaveI also think it's a rarity thing, but also the Alnico woofers are more revered than the foam surround ceramic magnet ones. Additionally, the AR3's were the ones used for the famous 'live vs recorded' demos that help the AR brand become the market leader - at least for awhile..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Around 100,000 AR-3a's were manufactured. The cloth surround woofer was replaced with the foam surround version somewhere in the neighborhood of serial number 35,000 in late '69 or early '70.Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genek Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 I'd say rarity. If you look at the listings, at any given time there are more 3a's listed than 3's. Also, being older, 3's have had more time to deteriorate, making examples in good operating and cosmetic condition even fewer and farther between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexicomike Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 "The cloth surround woofer was replaced with the foam surround version somewhere in the neighborhood of serial number 35,000 in late '69 or early '70." Roy, what is that serial number you are referring to - my 3As are numbered 15170 and 15175 - both with cloth surround woofers. The woofers didn't appear to have ever been replaced when I recapped though I suppose it's possible. But seems unlikely to me that if woofers had been replaced that they would have been replaced with the older version. My original 3As definitely had the cloth surrounds and I purchased them in '71 though they were most likely made in '70. I might have their serial numbers somewhere in all my old stereo component file; I'll take a look.It just occurred to me that I have ASSUMED my 3As are from '71 because that was stamped on one of the mids or tweets - I can't remember. BUt maybe it was replaced somewhere along the line and the speakers are actually older than I thought. I had 2 tweets and a mid replaced by AR back in the day so that's a possibility I hadn't thought of... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Hi MikeAs I mentioned above, the cloth surround woofer was used into the 3x,xxx serial numbers, so your 15,xxx 3a's would have been manufactured (in 1968) with cloth surround woofers. Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexicomike Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Thanks Roy - that makes sense; so I have 1968 3As (COOL!) with at least one later tweeter and one later midrange. I replaced the mid when I recapped them and found that the mid in the cabinet was a mid from a 3 instead of from a 3a. That wrong mid is good proof that you can't trust what you read from a seller on Ebay! But all drivers are original AR 3A drivers though not all from 1968. But, as mentioned, my 1971 3As did not have all original drivers since AR had to replace one tweeter after I blew one with a too-small amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Thanks Roy - that makes sense; so I have 1968 3As (COOL!) with at least one later tweeter and one later midrange. I replaced the mid when I recapped them and found that the mid in the cabinet was a mid from a 3 instead of from a 3a. That wrong mid is good proof that you can't trust what you read from a seller on Ebay! But all drivers are original AR 3A drivers though not all from 1968. But, as mentioned, my 1971 3As did not have all original drivers since AR had to replace one tweeter after I blew one with a too-small amp.Hey Mike,I just checked our data, and found your serial numbers matched to Sept 23,1968.I agree, Ebay is a minefield. The good news is that all of the front-wired 3a tweeters and mids are completely interchangeable regardless of year. Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexicomike Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 I should have realized the age at the time that I re capped since the woofers are the alnico magnet models - so I assume that all alnico mag woofers had the cloth surround and all later (ferrite mag) woofers had foam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 I should have realized the age at the time that I re capped since the woofers are the alnico magnet models - so I assume that all alnico mag woofers had the cloth surround and all later (ferrite mag) woofers had foam?That is true of the AR-3a woofer, but not others like the AR-2ax.Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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