Chris Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 Hi,New member here, although I posted on the forum as a guest before.Have some questions about a pair of AR 2ax speakers I picked up for free. However, they are rough. In one, the woofer is not working, and in the other the tweeter and/or midrange is not working (I have not tried them out yet, this is what the former owner told me).My current setup at home is a pair of New Large Advents and a pair of Klipsch Fortes. I run either with a Sansui integrated AU-517. I like the Advents and am thinking the ARs would be similar, yet different. My suspicion is that these could work particularly well with the Sansui.I was thinking about pulling them apart and at the very least redoing the pots and rebuilding the crossovers (to stock specification, of course).If the woofer, midrange and/or tweeter was bad, I was hoping to recone them. I was thinking that the midrange and/or tweeter could be due to the pots with the known problem of pots going bad over time.But the hardest thing for me to "fix" is these cabs. They are fairly rough. Most concerning is the swelling of the MDF in the corners/joints. Refinishing is easy, but I am no carpenter. I'm afraid of putting money into refurbishing them and then having them fall apart on me or whatever.Speaker 1:Pic 1Pic 2Pic 3Pic 4Pic 5Speaker 2:Pic 6Pic 7Pic 8These apparently have cloth-surround woofers, an "AR Inc." badge (no "2ax" on the badge which looks unusual to me, I've seen many pictures of these with the "2ax" badges), and a plywood back (as opposed to MDF).Anyone know what year these are based on the serial (AX85476)?These come up fairly rarely for sale locally. I'm tempted to toss them and look on eBay for a nicer pair, but the shipping could kind of kill me.What would y'all do with this pair in my situation?Thanks,Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 Hi Chris and welcome to CSP!I'd suggest you pull all of the drivers and test them. The mids and tweets may very well only be a pot problem but if not you need to decide whether you really want to spend the money for new drivers. Depending on the condition of the bad woofer, you may be able to have it repaired. I don't think you need reconing unless the cone is damaged. If these have foam woofer surrounds, as later 2ax's did, you'll have to refoam them, but I suspect these are earlier, with the cloth surrounds. Earlier ones had those square logo plates.If you have not done so already, look at "Restoring the AR3a", pinned to the top of the AR section. It is a goldmine of restoration info, much of which applies to the 2ax.http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/library/acoustic_research/original_models_1954-1974/original_models_schematicss/restoring_the_ar-3a/restoring_the_ar-3a_full_pd.pdfAs for the cabinets, they don't look "too" scary. CSP member John O'Hanlon recommended an epoxy filler years ago and I've used it extensively for repairs like this. Use clear epoxy and buy a bottle of Mixol #22--tobacco. Google it. You just use 1 drop of Mixol. Mix it in with the epoxy and use that to re-glue the joints. Force it into the seams with a thin blade, then securely clamp the cabinet. Put wax paper under the clamps jaws to prevent gluing the clamp to the speaker! For the corner dings, or to fill in places where the veneer is chipped off, use the same tinted epoxy. Form little dams of masking tape and pour in the epoxy. It is MUCH MUCH stronger than "plastic wood". Another way to do the filler is to mix very fine sawdust (like from a sander's dust bag) with epoxy. But that will dry much darker than the original wood's color and it's hard to control for that.When the epoxy is thoroughly dry, file and sand it to shape. You can sand the veneer VERY carefully and lightly, being especially careful at the edges where it's real easy to sand through the veneer.Don't try to accomplish all of the epoxy repairs at once. The speaker cab has to be level so the epoxy levels off and doesn't run, so if there are bashes and chunks on different surfaces you have to do them one at a time.I'll see if I have a couple of photos to post. Also check this thread for some Rectilinears that were REALLY rough. I'll look for a before shot to posthttp://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=4175And this thread shows my first major restoration: AR2ax speakers. Almost as rough as yourshttp://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=1783&st=0&p=59728entry59728Good luckKentPS: OK, the 1st shot is an AR2ax (I think). Next is a KLH 20, then a KLH 8. The 4th shot shows the Rectilinear, which had open joints like yours, being glued & clamped. The last shot is the "before" of the Rectilinear. I added strips of new veneer to the big bare areas and used epoxy filler or dings and corner bashes. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michiganpat Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 where are you located? I have some decent 2ax bare cabs...some minor scratching in the veneer, but all corners are tight and ding free, but I'm in west michiganmine are also all plywood, IIRC...woofers and replacement mids seem fairly common and somewhat reasonable on ebay, tweets, I'd use the hivi/paralleled inductor recommended by RoyCif you do decide to trash the cabs, the veneer on most of it looks pretty decent, try cut them up to save as much of the veneered sides to use on a smaller speaker building project, but I'm cheap that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted January 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 Pat,PM sent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundminded Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 Hi,New member here, although I posted on the forum as a guest before.Have some questions about a pair of AR 2ax speakers I picked up for free. However, they are rough. In one, the woofer is not working, and in the other the tweeter and/or midrange is not working (I have not tried them out yet, this is what the former owner told me).My current setup at home is a pair of New Large Advents and a pair of Klipsch Fortes. I run either with a Sansui integrated AU-517. I like the Advents and am thinking the ARs would be similar, yet different. My suspicion is that these could work particularly well with the Sansui.I was thinking about pulling them apart and at the very least redoing the pots and rebuilding the crossovers (to stock specification, of course).If the woofer, midrange and/or tweeter was bad, I was hoping to recone them. I was thinking that the midrange and/or tweeter could be due to the pots with the known problem of pots going bad over time.But the hardest thing for me to "fix" is these cabs. They are fairly rough. Most concerning is the swelling of the MDF in the corners/joints. Refinishing is easy, but I am no carpenter. I'm afraid of putting money into refurbishing them and then having them fall apart on me or whatever.Speaker 1:Pic 1Pic 2Pic 3Pic 4Pic 5Speaker 2:Pic 6Pic 7Pic 8These apparently have cloth-surround woofers, an "AR Inc." badge (no "2ax" on the badge which looks unusual to me, I've seen many pictures of these with the "2ax" badges), and a plywood back (as opposed to MDF).Anyone know what year these are based on the serial (AX85476)?These come up fairly rarely for sale locally. I'm tempted to toss them and look on eBay for a nicer pair, but the shipping could kind of kill me.What would y'all do with this pair in my situation?Thanks,ChrisThe problem with the midrange and tweeter drivers may be the capacitors in the crossover network. If they are rectangular with three wires (both capacitors in the same body) then it's a sure bet they are a goner. Replacements are very cheap if you want electrolytics like the originals, less than a dollar each. Parts express is a good supplier. (Be sure to get non-polarized.) More exotic types can be more expensive including much more expensive. It's often debated whether or not they're worth it. I recapped mine with ordinary non-polarized electolytics and they work very well. The midrange drivers are relatively easy to buy replacements for on e-bay. Not so for the tweeters. The 3/4" AR dome tweeter used in AR2ax, AR3a, AR5 and others is a rare and valuable bird. Consider yourself lucky if they turn out to work well, mine do. There are no equivalent replacements for them, their design concept is not in vogue any longer.If the woofers don't operate at all, their voice coils may be blown. With the surrounds gone and/or the drivers out of the cabinet, don't drive them hard or you will damage the voice coil. These can be repaired. Millersound is an excellent source. There are others. These speakers are worth restoring. Just be aware they are not designed for very loud rock. Their virtue lies in the quality of their sound, not the quantity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 Soundminded is right. IF you determine the drivers are OK, it's in the xo--either the caps or pots or both. In any case, if you restore the 2ax's you should definitely replace the caps. Non-polar electrolytics will work just fine, but if you're doing the work, why not go with film caps? Each 2ax takes one 4uF and one 6uF cap. If you want inexpensive, the Carli mylars are a bargain. Use 3.9 for the 4uF. Four caps for your speakers will set you back $5.30.http://www.madisound.com/store/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=carli&Submit=Search+store&categories_id=&search_in_description=1&inc_subcat=1Pots can be restored or replaced with L-Pads, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. First thing to do is check the drivers, then decide if you want to go for the restoration. I would not despair if you need tweeters. The Hi-Vi mod Roy worked out is a good replacement and will allow you to enjoy the 2ax's if the original woofs and mids are OK. https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=45_229_324&products_id=1493If you decide to go that route, Roy can advise. You also need an inductor and a resistor for each tweeter.I also agree with the Millersound recommendation. If a speaker driver can be repaired, Bill LeGall can do it.BUT... decide how much you will have to pour into these. If you have to replace drivers the cost can escalate. How much do you enjoy a challenge? If it's going to cost you $200 plus your labor, you may want to rethink it. OTOH if you just need caps, linen grille cloth, some glue and Waco Oil, it's well worth it. Replace 1 driver, fine. Replace the tweeters, maybe. Sending woofers out for refoaming may well cost $100 once you add in shipping both ways (but refoaming them yourself is only about $25--IF you have foam surrounds).Check them out, take pictures, ask questions. We love to help.Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted January 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 If the woofers don't operate at all, their voice coils may be blown. With the surrounds gone and/or the drivers out of the cabinet, don't drive them hard or you will damage the voice coil. These can be repaired. Millersound is an excellent source. There are others. These speakers are worth restoring. Just be aware they are not designed for very loud rock. Their virtue lies in the quality of their sound, not the quantity.Hi,I have my Klipsch Fortes for fairly loud rock. I am looking forward to some different textures these can provide compared to my Fortes and NLAs.Thanks for the advice. I'll let y'all know how it turns out in the next week or two when I pull these apart.Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted January 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Soundminded is right. IF you determine the drivers are OK, it's in the xo--either the caps or pots or both. In any case, if you restore the 2ax's you should definitely replace the caps. Non-polar electrolytics will work just fine, but if you're doing the work, why not go with film caps? Each 2ax takes one 4uF and one 6uF cap. If you want inexpensive, the Carli mylars are a bargain. Use 3.9 for the 4uF. Four caps for your speakers will set you back $5.30.http://www.madisound.com/store/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=carli&Submit=Search+store&categories_id=&search_in_description=1&inc_subcat=1Pots can be restored or replaced with L-Pads, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. First thing to do is check the drivers, then decide if you want to go for the restoration. I would not despair if you need tweeters. The Hi-Vi mod Roy worked out is a good replacement and will allow you to enjoy the 2ax's if the original woofs and mids are OK. https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=45_229_324&products_id=1493Sounds good to me. I replaced the caps in my NLAs with stock values and noticed an improvement, it was fairly significant and considered a cheap "upgrade". I think I bought Daytons when I rebuilt those NLAs, which specific one, I dunno.If you decide to go that route, Roy can advise. You also need an inductor and a resistor for each tweeter.I also agree with the Millersound recommendation. If a speaker driver can be repaired, Bill LeGall can do it.I will check the drivers first before spending a dime.BUT... decide how much you will have to pour into these. If you have to replace drivers the cost can escalate. How much do you enjoy a challenge? If it's going to cost you $200 plus your labor, you may want to rethink it. OTOH if you just need caps, linen grille cloth, some glue and Waco Oil, it's well worth it. Replace 1 driver, fine. Replace the tweeters, maybe. Sending woofers out for refoaming may well cost $100 once you add in shipping both ways (but refoaming them yourself is only about $25--IF you have foam surrounds).Yes, yes. I will assess the condition of the drivers. My goal is to get these working as cheaply as possible to see how I like them. Who knows? I might actually dislike them... BTW, these woofs definitely have the cloth surrounds. Going on the serial and the other appointments (red pot shafts), looks like these might be 1968-ish...Check them out, take pictures, ask questions. We love to help.I love to ask questions, sounds like a match. =)Thanks for everyone's help thus far!Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWC Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 I love to ask questions, sounds like a match. =)Thanks for everyone's help thus far!ChrisChrisBy know you know that there are many directions to take with these speakers. Having had Ar-3A, Ar-2A, and Ar-2. I can tell you that they can be a joy to listen to. If you can fix 'em, I encourage you to. At least then you will be able to hear what the fuss is about. If your drivers work, why not listen for a while before putting time and money into new cabs and grills. keep us posted and good luck..G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briodo Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Chris,Recent find on ebay. The price may be right...BrianAcoustic Research AR2ax Speaker Cabinets for repair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted January 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Hi briodo,Saw that but I mean, if I am going to ship cabs... I probably would pass on those unless mickiganpat's cabs are worse. And at that point, my cabs don't look all THAT bad...Thanks,Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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