Re-coning, a proposal.

[kkantor]

I'm getting interested in understanding re-coning better:

- How good a job do people generally do.

- What aspects of drivers tend to come out well, what performance typically gets degraded.

etc.

If anyone wants to send me a matched combination of original and re-coned woofers, I will test these and return them. For your effort, you get comparitive parameters, frequency response and distortion. Editorial only if you wish. For my effort, I get some data points towards answering my questions.

Depending on what's going on when I get them, it might take 2 or 3 weeks, if that is an issue.

Ken Kantor

Intelligent Audio Systems, Inc.

[charger3834]

Ken,

Although I do not own any reconed drivers, I am very interested in this process. After you have concluded your empiricle testing, I'm sure we would all be delighted to hear your findings and insights.

I just want to say again how priviledged I feel to be a part of this forum. Your contributions to this forum and to the audio world in general, are sincerely appreciated.

I feel like an undergrad in a great university, with great professors such as yourself, Tom and Steve. This really is a dream come true for me.

[Guest]

Ken,

I'm getting 4 new 12" drivers for my AR9s and a friend just replaced the 12" drivers in his 10pi's. So there are 6 drivers available to be fixed at my expense.

We were just (an hour or less ago) discussing having the drivers resurrounded. One of his could probably stand to be reconed.

>If anyone wants to send me a matched combination of original and re-coned woofers, I will test these and return them. <

So, exactly what would you be looking for as "original" woofers? Is a resurrounded but not reconed speaker an "original?"

I'm just thinking that non-resurrounded, really original, AR woofers would be pretty hard to come-by.

But assuming "resurrounded" would be okay as original I'll soon have the drivers you want and would count it an honor and something of a fairly cheap thrill to help you and help us all.

After-all, you've done a fair amount for me and didn't even know it. ;-)

Bret

[Guest]

BTW

>it might take 2 or 3 weeks, if that is an issue. <

None at all since we'll have "replacement" drivers in the cabinets to listen to. Take 6 or 8 weeks if you need to.

Bret

[Guest]

Uh,Ken? You out there?

I'm ready to do something with all these surroundless woofers.

If there'somewhere you have in mind for me to have one reconed or somewhere you'd like to see the results of a resurround, I'd like to know ASAP.

I'm very interested in your proposal. That way we can tell if trying to restore old drivers is really getting us "orignal" performance or if we are all spitting in the wind.

Bret

[kkantor]

No, I'm not out there. I'm right in here. In the little box on your desk. I just act "out there"...

1- Process.

Get a few pieces redone, as you would have, where you would have. I don't have any suggestions or knowledge of that industry. Reconed will probably yield the most information.

Then send them to me, carefully packed. I will run parameters on them, sweep their frequency responses, and generally comment on performance and construction.

2- Reference.

These are well-known drivers, and so I don't think a comparison standard is totally necessary, but it would be good if someone had an original or similar vintage for me to test side by side. In either case, I can present my results here.

3- Timing.

We are in the absolute home stretch of CES, and I doubt I am going to get a full night's sleep between now and January 15. (No kidding...) So receiving the test units towards the last week in January, with results a couple of weeks after that would be ideal.

-k

www.intelligentaudiosystems.com

[Guest]

>No, I'm not out there. I'm right in here. In the little box on your desk. I just act "out there"...<

LOL, to quote Daffy Duck, "I like him. He's silly."

I really appreciate your doing this, BTW. I wasn't being impatient but didn't understand the lack of reply when you were posting elsewhere in the forum. Thought maybe you wished I'd go-away and were too polite to say-so.

Okay, tell you what I'm gonna do. . . I'm going to send two drivers to one place, another two to another. I'm going to have one (1) reconed, the other three resurrounded.

Then I'm going to send another pair (different vintage) to be resurrounded by place number 1.

Then, just for funsies, I'll send you five drivers. Three matching; two resurrounded at different places, one reconed; and, two matching but different vintage than the other four, resurrounded at the same place.

Confused? Me too. I'll label them. My thought was that by having two resurrounded at the same place that a reconing job was done you could check for inconsistencies in the surround-repair process and have two to check against a reconing job. That way you shouldn't end-up drawing conculsions on an exception.

And by sending two, matched (yet different than the other four) which have been resurrounded at the same place as one of the original four, you could see if different vintage (these two have screen mesh on the backs, the others do not) drivers seem to "take" repairs better than others.

If you don't want all these things, let me know. I'll try to get them all off to be repaired next week.

Oh, one other thing - Do you have any interest in testing an AR 1w, still in the cabinet, cloth surround, never resealed? I suspect this is about as "original" an AR speaker as can be come-by. Of course, the shipping is going to be a bear as I refuse to unmount it from the cabinet, but if you need the numbers for some reason I have permission to ship it to you. The grill cloth hasn't been loose from this one in 40 years or so.

Bret

[kkantor]

Not a problem. I just sometimes loose track of what is posted for me where. Let's start with the 5 woofers. When that is done, we can move on to the AR-1.

You can get my shipping address from our website:

www.intelligentaudiosystems.com.

Just be sure to label everything with appropriate data, and with your contact info.

This will be interesting for me, thanks. Just hope I don't wind up in a flame war with a re-coner...

-k

[Guest]

In the interest of saving shipping cost, I have had two 12" drivers sent directly to you after resurrounding (this is the first pair from "repair place #1"). Of course, I tried to label, etc, and even included a note of explanation to be forwarded to you.

Whether any labelling survives the repair process, or whether the place will include my note to you, remains to be seen. So I'll tell you here: The first ones to arrive should be a resurrounded pair of matched 12" from AR9s.

The others will leave here this week. I've thought better of the "forwarding" process and so will send the others from here once returned. That way, I can assure good labelling.

Bret

[kkantor]

Thanks... I'm en route to CES as I type this. I look forward to checking them out when I return.

[Guest]

Hey Ken, knock 'em dead at CES.

--Daniel

[kkantor]

Bret,

I haven't seen any of your woofers. Should we worry?

[Guest]

>I haven't seen any of your woofers. Should we worry?<

Yes, we absolutely should. It may be time to darn-near panic! I was thinking you've had at least two of them for weeks now.

I'll check on all six of them Monday.

Bret

[Guest]

Ken,

The first pair of speakers I sent off were for "resurround" at what I took to be a fairly "average" place.

I was finally able to get someone on the phone who apologized for the delay and assured me that my drivers would be sent-out tomorrow. They have your correct address and are sending them to you, directly.

Man, resurrounding/reconing speakers must be an incredibly profitable and busy business since the man I spoke to said that they were overwhelmed with orders and were running 6-7 *weeks* behind their usual turn-around of 5-7 business days.

Hope they get there soon. Lemme know.

Bret

[kkantor]

Well, I'm glad to know they aren't lost. I'm leaving tomorrow for a week overseas, so no hurry.

[kkantor]

Bret,

Drivers arrived today, all safe. As to sound, I'll try to get to it this weekend, or early next week.

[Guest]

>Drivers arrived today, all safe. As to sound, I'll try to get to it this weekend, or early next week. <

That's two of six. Thank goodness at least some of them apparently still exist. I haven't heard from the other 4, yet. I will. Shortly.

Then there are the two 8" I sent to Layne that were supposed to be on his agenda for about now. (I wasn't having those sent to you.) We'll see. I hope I live long enough for you to get them all.

Bret

[Guest]

>I haven't seen any of your woofers. <

Just wanted to update you -

Late last week I heard from the man who's got the other four. Says they arrived (yes, they did, he signed for them mid-January). In a brief communication says he's real busy, backed-up, will let me know something soon.

Ken, it's almost enough to make me want to go into the driver-rebuilding business. There appears to be lots and lots of demand.

Which begs the question - if there is that much demand to reconstruct classic AR, JBL, and "other" drivers. . . well, to an outsider this looks like a niche market for new drivers built with old, old technologies. Or is this really like rebuiding a Jaguar Mk V where the end result is inferior in any objective sense to a new Crown Victoria, but the hobbiest understands that he has a "classic" regardless of objective comparisons?

I apologize for not remembering and being too lazy to go look right this minute; Are you having your drivers manufactured for you, using off-the-shelf drivers, or do you have a shop and manufacture them yourself?

Anyhow, I suppose we'll hear from the 10pi drivers and the other two 9 drivers when we hear from them. I'll inquire about them again in a couple of weeks. Meanwhile I'm trying to find the time to rummage through my dad's stuff for his original 3a 12" drivers.

Bret

[kkantor]

I replied at length to this last night, but it didn't show, so here's the reader's digest version:

1- TC Sounds makes our woofers, to our spec.

2- Wouldn't want to make woofers myself. It's a specialized field that requires investment and time to do properly.

3- What is the size of the woofer replacement market? 100 units a year will keep a mom and pop repair shop constantly backordered. But 100 units a year is a few orders of magnitude too low to base a manufacturing project around.

[Guest Bret]

Ken,

Another update on the AWOL 12" drivers. I have received a few emails from the gentleman who has them over the past ten days or so. I have responded.

AFAIK he should be in the middle of rebuilding them.

If I hear anything more, I'll let you know.

Bret

CAD doesn't improve everything.

[Guest Bret]

I asked this question in "10pi and what tweeter", an original thread. Thought you might see it and respond, but maybe here's a better place / way to ask.

In another thread you made reference to something that was "in vogue" prior to getting your AR-LSTs. You said you wanted a pair of 10pi's and _______ tweeters.

What I didn't get or don't remember from your description is if you were going to replace the tweeters in the 10pi's or if you were talking about stacking an array or. . . something else.

Could you elaborate on what you were thinking and why it was a "popular" thing to do?

Bret