AR-3 Grilles, could these be original?

[kenyonbm]

Just starting to work on 2 pairs of AR-3's. They both have the plastic frames on the grilles, but I wonder if the grille cloths are original.

The serial #s on the basket-wave pair are c31105 & c31243, the finish looks like mahogany. Looks very sharp with the dark basket weave.

The other pair is a beige plasticy 3d weave and one serial 3 is c57462, the other # is missing, finish looks like walnut.

All frames where still glued on pretty well, did not appear to have been off previously.

Any information appreciated.

Ken

[johnieo]

Just starting to work on 2 pairs of AR-3's. They both have the plastic frames on the grilles, but I wonder if the grille cloths are original.

The serial #s on the basket-wave pair are c31105 & c31243, the finish looks like mahogany. Looks very sharp with the dark basket weave.

The other pair is a beige plasticy 3d weave and one serial 3 is c57462, the other # is missing, finish looks like walnut.

All frames where still glued on pretty well, did not appear to have been off previously.

Any information appreciated.

Ken

Hello Ken:

The leter "C" in front of the serial number designates these as AR-3a. The 31xxx were made in about 4Q 1969 and 57xxx about 3Q71. I have seen plastic grille frames on many AR-3 and on some 3a. Most of the linen was 28 point in later 3a versions, but coarser in earlier. Tom Tyson may have more specific information on when the plastic frames ceased to be used. They look original to me, but Tom may know better.

Cheers,

John

[johnieo]

Whoops, I did not enlarge your photos before commenting! The grills are AR-3 grilles but the serial numbers are AR-3a?

Huh?

John

[RoyC]

Hello Ken:

The letter "C" in front of the serial number designates these as AR-3a.

My pal, John, has it mixed up . The "C" designates AR-3 serial numbers, not 3a numbers, so they ARE AR-3 cabinets and grilles. The grilles in your photos look original to me, but I have only seen the cream colored AR-3 grille cloth up close. The plastic AR-3 grille frames are not easy to work with.

Roy

[Shacky]

I have two pair of project AR3's. One with gril cloth your color and one dark brown.

And all 4 plastic grills a broken. Wondering if it's worth trying to glue them and reuse or go with new grills from AR Guy.

[kenyonbm]

Thanks for the information. I am more used to seeing the plain linen cloths on AR-3a's.

The basket weave is in good condition and looks very retro-cool. I am glad it is authentic.

The beige 3-d plastic is not torn but is pretty dirty.

I was able to get one pair apart without breaking the frames (or anything else.) I have not tried the other yet.

On the first pair, none of the mid's or tweeters are working.

Ken

[tysontom]

Just starting to work on 2 pairs of AR-3's. They both have the plastic frames on the grilles, but I wonder if the grille cloths are original.

The serial #s on the basket-wave pair are c31105 & c31243, the finish looks like mahogany. Looks very sharp with the dark basket weave.

The other pair is a beige plasticy 3d weave and one serial 3 is c57462, the other # is missing, finish looks like walnut.

All frames where still glued on pretty well, did not appear to have been off previously.

Any information appreciated.

Ken

Ken,

These are definitely AR-3s if they have the "C" in front of the serial number. The AR-1 was the first speaker, the AR-2 series was the second series (with "B" in the serial number of most units) and the "C" designated the third speaker from AR, the famous AR-3 model; the AR-2a was the "D" version as it followed the AR-3.

Of your two speakers, the one with the ivory-colored seran/nylon grill is original; the brown is not original and is not an AR grill. It is a retrofitted grill, as AR never used anything but the ivory grill with this speaker. Also, the grill molding on that second speaker has been modified. One of the long sides has been cut down 1/8" or 1/4" or so.

AR did change the thread in the ivory grill material of the AR-3 around 1961 with serial number C 8703. There used to be a gold thread woven into the grill of the cloth, but this was eliminated after 1961. Otherwise, however, there were no other changes to the grill material itself.

--Tom Tyson

Attachment: Correct grill for AR-3. This AR-3 has the gold thread.

[kenyonbm]

Thanks Tom, I just checked the beige one, no gold threads there. Any tips on cleaning them? This pair could use one, but seems intact. Yours are really sweet!

The Basket weave one in the picture had been removed and only partially reinstalled for the photo, so it may look like it had been cut down, but the assembly looks intact if a little flimsy.

I have only seen the linen grilles before and that is what is on my 4ax's and 2ax's and the 3a's I used to have.

I was hoping that the basket weave was original as it looks really cool, in a retro way. Since they seem "period", if not original, I may just keep them.

And I am usually a purist.

Any idea when these where made? I was pretty sure they where 3's not 3a's, from the badges.

Ken

[tysontom]

Thanks Tom, I just checked the beige one, no gold threads there. Any tips on cleaning them? This pair could use one, but seems intact. Yours are really sweet!

The Basket weave one in the picture had been removed and only partially reinstalled for the photo, so it may look like it had been cut down, but the assembly looks intact if a little flimsy.

I have only seen the linen grilles before and that is what is on my 4ax's and 2ax's and the 3a's I used to have.

I was hoping that the basket weave was original as it looks really cool, in a retro way. Since they seem "period", if not original, I may just keep them.

And I am usually a purist.

Any idea when these where made? I was pretty sure they where 3's not 3a's, from the badges.

Ken

Ken,

Now I see what is going on with the basketweave version: the grill is outside the cabinet molding, making the cabinet appear modified at first glance. I apologize!

Cleaning the ivory grill is probably going to require that you remove the grill and grill panel, but even then it may be difficult to bring back to original. Many times the seran/nylon material gets permanently stained, and there is little you can do to fix it. This grill material is really not all that rare, so you may be able to find some replacement material. If you remove the grill and panel, you shouild try to remove the material from the grill frame if possible. Your version probably has the molded-plastic frame, so it may be hard to remove the grill material from the frame as it is glued to it. If you have difficulty, leave the grill material on the frame and clean the grill the way it is. It is probably best to clean the grill with soap and water and a brush. 409 cleaner works well for this sort of thing; avoid any strong cleaners that might damage the plastic grill material. One note of caution: it is very difficult to remove the grill panel from the inside rails on the AR-3 cabinet molding without breaking the plastic frame, so use patience when you remove it. If it has been removed previously, then it will be easier to do. The factory bowed and snapped in the grill into each short end of the speaker, then tucked and glued the material all the way around the edges. Factory installation shows a grill that is flush and taught under the molding without any sags or drooping (look at the images of the AR-3 that I attached earlier).

Of course, you could adapt the AR-3a grill material to your frames, and complete the speakers in that manner. Or you could find some more of the basket weave material and try that for both speakers. Your speakers are definitely AR-3s and not AR-3as judging by the serial numbers you gave. They would have been built around 1962 or 1963, I believe.

--Tom Tyson

[tysontom]

Thanks Tom, I just checked the beige one, no gold threads there. Any tips on cleaning them? This pair could use one, but seems intact. Yours are really sweet!

The Basket weave one in the picture had been removed and only partially reinstalled for the photo, so it may look like it had been cut down, but the assembly looks intact if a little flimsy.

I have only seen the linen grilles before and that is what is on my 4ax's and 2ax's and the 3a's I used to have.

I was hoping that the basket weave was original as it looks really cool, in a retro way. Since they seem "period", if not original, I may just keep them.

And I am usually a purist.

Any idea when these where made? I was pretty sure they where 3's not 3a's, from the badges.

Ken

Ken,

I forgot to mention that both of your cabinets are Oiled Walnut. The AR-3 pair I attached is Lacquered Mahogany, a finish that was more common in the late 1950s and early 60s. The lacquered finishes have more gloss than the oil finishes. By 1963 or so, walnut was much more common, and people were getting away from the lacquered finishes (they scratched very easily for one thing). Your Oiled Walnut cabinets should therefore never have a shiny finish, as the oil finish is intended to have a satin gloss.

--Tom Tyson

[Shacky]

I have a pair with the lighter "ivory" grill. Is there a sonic reason to retain? I like the look of 3a type linen. Also like to keep things original.

[tysontom]

I have a pair with the lighter "ivory" grill. Is there a sonic reason to retain? I like the look of 3a type linen. Also like to keep things original.

Shacky,

No, there is no particular reason, other than history, to retain the old AR-3 grills. If you replace them with newer AR-3a linen-type grills, that is certainly fine. Be certain that you can see approximately 50% light through the material (if it is not an original AR-3a grill material) when you hold it up to light. There is no hard-and-fast rule, short of measuring the response with and without the grills, but I've always heard this advice regarding the "transparency" of the material.

--Tom Tyson

[tysontom]

Hello Ken:

The leter "C" in front of the serial number designates these as AR-3a. The 31xxx were made in about 4Q 1969 and 57xxx about 3Q71. I have seen plastic grille frames on many AR-3 and on some 3a. Most of the linen was 28 point in later 3a versions, but coarser in earlier. Tom Tyson may have more specific information on when the plastic frames ceased to be used. They look original to me, but Tom may know better.

Cheers,

John

Ken,

Looking through my notes, I could not verify the exact dates of manufacture of each set of your AR-3s. I think the C 31105 and C 31243 would be closer to early or mid-1960s, perhaps closer to 1963 or 1964. The peak manufacture of the AR-3 was in the 1962-66 time-period; by 1967-1968, sales of the AR-3 began to slow with the introduction of the AR-3a. The other serial number you have, #C 57462, would most likely be in the 1965-1969 time-period. I do know that the five-year warranty on serial number C 70607 ran out on December 1972. Also, between July 1972 and December 1972, only serial numbers C 70602, C 70605 and C 70607 were manufactured, so it is evident that the AR-3 was near the end of production. AR-3s built after C 70228 the modified AR-3a-style midrange driver and most likely the new-style ferrite woofer and the AR-3a-style cabinet molding.

--Tom Tyson