What Companies today compare to AR?

[Supercooper188]

What companies today offer similar quality speakers to AR? What can you expect to pay for something comparable to the AR-90's or the TSW-910?

[rrcrain]

What companies today offer similar quality speakers to AR? What can you expect to pay for something comparable to the AR-90's or the TSW-910?

I've been told by a reputable dealer in Peoria, IL. (Elecronics Diversified) that I'd have to spend around $5,000 to purchase a new speaker of similar quality to my AR90's.

[Mexicomike]

Before you spend money on new speakers that will sound as good as restored old ARs, also ask if the company will replace any blown drivers at no charge AND pay all shipping costs to/from the factory for replacement for 5 years as AR did. AFAIK, no one will do that. Of course, it's only fair to note that by the late 70's after the Villchur era and that of his "immediate successors," AR didn't do it either...

I read somewhere recently - I'm trying to find where - that it would take at least $10k to buy a pair of current speakers that could match LSTs.

[genek]

Most of the "what it would cost today" estimates you see are based on someone taking the MSRP of the originals and plugging it into an inflation calculator. No consideration is made for the fact that the original MSRPs were usually heavily discounted, or for the fact that the manufacturing cost of most electronic components goes down over time, and certainly not for the fact that nobody's even trying to make new speakers that follow the same design approaches of the originals.

[Mexicomike]

I would expect such estimates to be simply based on what is the street price for a speaker system made today that will equal or outperform the speaker in question. So, for example if a current Alfa model from the Superduperspeaker co will equal the LSTs performance and it costs 500 dollars, that would be the end of it. I would not expect anyone to "remanufacture" an LST and it's specific components.

I found the reference I "thought" I remembered but it was about the Cello Amati and it's 10k price. Since it was just an LST in prettier clothes, I don't think its price is relevant. So maybe a current speaker that can match an LST is available for not all that much, I have no idea. However, the specs on some current speakers that would SEEM to be in that performance league, ARE in the $8-10k range. Of course, the specs aren't the story, the sound is. So without listening to them side by side, who knows. I would HOPE the current speakers at that level would sound equally accurate.

[genek]

I would HOPE the current speakers at that level would sound equally accurate.

At the risk of dragging that other thread into this one, I have encountered literature and heard demos for loads of speakers at various price points that measure as "accurate" as classic ARs, possibly even more "accurate." I just haven't run across any I think sound as good.

[onplane]

What companies today offer similar quality speakers to AR? What can you expect to pay for something comparable to the AR-90's or the TSW-910?

This is a difficult qyestion to answer as you don't find many companies making "acoustic suspension" speaker systems these days. Further, the really "high end" towers tend to have built-in powered sub woofers.

Then there is Velodyne that has some high end acoustic suspension (aka sealed boxes) subs.

At the low end, this manufacturer claims their unit is is a "Modern KLH 6". It looks to me more like a modern version of the AR-4xa

Modern version of KLH 6 or AR-4xa??

Regards,

Jerry

[Mexicomike]

This is a difficult qyestion to answer as you don't find many companies making "acoustic suspension" speaker systems these days. Further, the really "high end" towers tend to have built-in powered sub woofers.

But again, I don't think the issue is whether anybody makes an acoustic suspension woofer. The question is simply what does it take, pricewise, to sound as "good" or "accurate" or whatever term you want to use. How the speaker maker accomplishes it doesn't matter.

[genek]

But again, I don't think the issue is whether anybody makes an acoustic suspension woofer. The question is simply what does it take, pricewise, to sound as "good" or "accurate" or whatever term you want to use. How the speaker maker accomplishes it doesn't matter.

The last time I ventured into a "high-end audio" salon, my impression of the sound was that everything was way too bright. Combining speakers that have response that is "flat" by contemporary standards with an amplifier that has no tone controls is not a workable arrangement for me.

[Mexicomike]

Basically, I agree. I bought a pair of Theil CS2s some years ago and they are just too bright for me to listen to at anything other than pretty moderate listening levels. They were our "TV" speakers for years until a couple of months ago when they were replaced by my AR3As, which were replaced in my listening area by the LSTs.

The first day the 3As were in use and we put in a DVD movie, my wife's reaction was "HOLY S^it, those speakers sound GREAT!" The Theils now sit in the dining room, not even connected to anything.

[Steve F]

"....or for the fact that the manufacturing cost of most electronic components goes down over time...."

Something to keep in mind as far as speaker manufacturing is concerned:

Very little is 'electronics' the way we think of electronics (computers, iPods, netbooks, digital cameras, etc.). The biggest cost component by far in 'traditional' speakers is the wood cabinet, and wood and veneer are definitely not going down in price. The majority of the rest of the speaker is heavy metals and other commodities (copper, aluminum, paper, magnetic materials, etc.) and these materials increase in cost over time. (Think gold has gone up in recent years? Look at copper.)

Just recently, California and Europe put out a requirement that MDF is no longer is allowed to have formaldehyde (a major ingredient) in it. This means that MDF prices will skyrocket due to a new, more expensive manufacturing process, mandated by the environmentalist lobby, and speaker cabinets will get much more expensive. (When Europe and CA do something, the rest of the US and the other major markets follow suit soon enough.) Now maybe the environment is the greater good. I'm not taking sides on that issue here--you'll decide for yourself. I'm simply pointing out that material costs do go up over time, for a variety of reasons.

Speakers are big, heavy items to ship, and it costs diesel and gasoline to get the components to the factories and the distributors, and then get the finished goods to their final destination, and we all know what the price of fuel has done in the last 20 years. Computers have gotten smaller and lighter, so are less affected by the fuel cost increases. But a 95 lb Revel costs A LOT more to ship today than a 95 lb AR-9 did in 1978.

So would the $1500/pr. AR-9 of 1978 cost $5000-8000 today? Easy.

Steve F.

[genek]

So would the $1500/pr. AR-9 of 1978 cost $5000-8000 today? Easy.

If this were the case, I would expect the biggest contributor to it to be the fact that the companies that might be of a mind to try would be very small shops that still do things by hand because their volumes don't support the necessary tooling for mass production. The modern "redo" of a classic AR would be to a contemporary speaker as a Ferrari is to a Toyota. The majority of the higher price would not be the materials, even if they do cost significantly more; it would be the labor.

[Guest fwardell]

I was surprised about a year ago, when I acquired my current AR-3as, to find that they sound much like my current-day, reasonably-priced NHT Super Zeroes and SW-2P subwoofer combo - or maybe it's the other way around! I've heard and read that NHT speakers are close to the "New England" sound of yesteryear. Now I hear NHT is no longer in business. FWIW.