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Suggestions for AR5 tweeters


zcon67

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The HI-VI Q1R has been praised as a drop in replacement in previous threads. It's 6 ohm nom. imp. so it will work for the 4 and 8 ohm versions. Read the prior threads though. A supplimentary, parallel coil may have also been recommended to help protect it from burn out.

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Hi Carl,

I finally found that thread with the Google search. Thanks for the help.

PeteZ

Pete,

Since trying the Q1R in the 2ax, I have been experimenting with it in the AR-3a, again with very pleasant results. This tweeter is very easy to work with, showing none of the harsh or sibilant tendencies of the AB Tech tweeter. Try it with a .1mh coil across the terminals mounted to the back of the tweeter, and reverse the polarity. It can be front or back wired (see pics). Check your forum messages...

Roy

post-101150-1232056993.jpg post-101150-1232057007.jpg

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Quote:

Since trying the Q1R in the 2ax, I have been experimenting with it in the AR-3a, again with very pleasant results. This tweeter is very easy to work with, showing none of the harsh or sibilant tendencies of the AB Tech tweeter. Try it with a .1mh coil across the terminals mounted to the back of the tweeter, and reverse the polarity. It can be front or back wired (see pics). Check your forum messages...

Roy

Dear Roy C. , would you strongly recommend this tweeter (being a lover of the AR sound) as a good substitute for that AB-Tech one in 'all' respects?

I mean really recommend, I need to know cause I'm looking for more options? The price of the ABt's is overly high for the apparent quality and I still have a number of AR's that are

waiting for a good replacement, after a while it becomes tiring to stare at my "Micro-Statics", even though they do a good job(and always sit there like two little friends) and handle loads of power. Power handling is a big consideration for me as my amps are strong, no doubt

that's what has always been the cause of tweeter failure of me, so this is a 'need-to-know' answer. Will these 'other' tweeters

'put-out' more or less power or response than the original AR tweeters, and also more or less than the ABt's, two questions there? My 'needy' speakers are my LST's, 3a's and 2ax's, what value inductor might be necessary for each? Any 'mounting' clues?

All and any advise is appreciated.

Thanks, Frank Marsi, fool for the city, and a fool for the old AR's.

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There have been threads on newer tweeters for the 3A but I can't find much for the 8 ohm speakers. If anyone has experience or suggestions, especially for the 5, I would be interested in hearing them.

Thanks, PeteZ

I'd try the 3/4" Vifa/Tymphany D19TD05-08. They are available at Madisound for $27.60 each. Not quite the dispersion of the AR3a/AR5 tweeter but not bad considering other units and not too expensive given today's market. It's 8 ohms so I think it's a good match for that system. It's down around 11 db at 15 khz 60 degrees off axis. The AR3a/5 is down only 5db and that's a considerable difference. You may have to pad it down to match its output level to the AR5. You can reduce its sensitivity by 6 db without changing its impedence if you put an 8 ohm resistor in series with it and another 8 ohm resistor in parallel with the combination. That would bring it from 90 db to 84 db which may be more in line with AR 5 or you can add an L-pad or use AR5's level pot. It's rated to handle 50 watts so it should produce about 104 db one meter away on axis.

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_i...roducts_id=8281

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Frank,

I much prefer the sound of the Q1R over the AB Tech tweeter in both the 2ax and the 3a. The sound is open, detailed, yet "AR warm". If there are dispersion issues, I have not noticed any in my listening environment. IMO, it is not aggressive like the AB Tech tweeter, especially as the volume is raised to higher levels. It simply has a smoother response, and will handle at least as much *clean* power as the AB Tech tweeter; and it will handle more power than the original AR tweeter (which is due to the use of ferro fluid, and the parallel inductor). With the 3a, I keep returning to a .1mh parallel inductor. Further, the use of L-pads on the Q1R and mids, instead of the original pots, brings the sound closer to that of the AR-11 or the AR-3a Limited. (I personally like this configuration very much.)

I have dissected one of the least expensive HiVi tweeters (X1R) and the AB Tech tweeter, and found the $8 X1R to be better constructed than the AB Tech tweeter. For starters, it has a very nice dome with damping material under it. The ABT, at over 7 times the cost, has neither.

An added bonus is that the Q1R easily fits the large AR cabinet hole without any adapter, or modification of the hole. Only the AB Tech tweeter has a friendlier faceplate, yet even that is not perfect, as many cabinet holes must be notched to accommodate the rear terminals. The easiest way to install the Q1R is with (6) #6 deep thread screws like these: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.c...tnumber=081-435. I posted a photo in a recent 2ax thread showing the use of these screws. Notches can also be created in the faceplate for use with the original AR screws along with (3) #6 screws, as shown in the 3a photos in this thread.

I am sure there are other modern tweeters that could be adapted for use in our old timers, but it is only conjecture unless some actual experience is provided. I have tried over a dozen tweeters so far, including the Vifa mentioned in this thread (as well as another Vifa provided by Ken Kantor). Most were excellent tweeters, but, in my opinion, the Q1R produces more satisfying results for AR restoration purposes, and is easier to work with.

Roy

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Guest John Faulkner

Roy

I need at least i tweeter for my AR-3 to AR-3a conversion. What is your opinion of the Hi-Vi Q1R vs and AR-303 tweeter for use in an AR-3a? Right now the options I have at hand are:

1) 1 AR-3 and 1 AR-3a tweeter

2) 2 AR-303 tweeters

3) purchase new tweeters

these will be going in older AR-3 utility pine cabinets with matched AR-3a/LST mids, re-capped AR-3a value crossovers with cleaned pots, 1 with cloth surround woofer, 1 with later foam surround woofer with new surround.

I will use 2.85 woofer coils in both, 32 oz fiberglass with the cloth woofer, 20 oz with the foam woofer.

Suggestions?

thanks

John

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Roy

I need at least i tweeter for my AR-3 to AR-3a conversion. What is your opinion of the Hi-Vi Q1R vs and AR-303 tweeter for use in an AR-3a? Right now the options I have at hand are:

1) 1 AR-3 and 1 AR-3a tweeter

2) 2 AR-303 tweeters

3) purchase new tweeters

these will be going in older AR-3 utility pine cabinets with matched AR-3a/LST mids, re-capped AR-3a value crossovers with cleaned pots, 1 with cloth surround woofer, 1 with later foam surround woofer with new surround.

I will use 2.85 woofer coils in both, 32 oz fiberglass with the cloth woofer, 20 oz with the foam woofer.

Suggestions?

thanks

John

Hi John,

I would go with a matched pair of tweeters, so option #1 wouldn't be my first choice....and having dissected a number of them, I am not optimistic about the integrity and consistency of the original tweeters these days. When conducting my comparisons, I subjectively noticed response variations among the (6) 3a tweeters I have on hand. (Ken Kantor also noted response issues with the old tweeters we sent him for testing.)

I have only heard the 303 tweeter in a 303 system, so I can't say if it would be better than the Q1R in the 3a. Some forum members have tried the 303 driver in the 3a with satisfactory results, but, like most of the other replacement candidates, it requires an adapter for the large AR cabinet hole. Of course, ALL of our tweeter alternatives require a crossover adjustment or addition. Carl and Minh have done some work with the AR tweeters from the 303 era, and may have some recommendations. You already own a pair...might as well give them a try. Just don't do anything to the speakers that is not easily reversible :-).

As mentioned above, I am quite comfortable recommending the Q1R. It is easy to obtain and install, and with the addition of a .1mh parallel inductor, integrates better with the 3a than anything I have tried to date. (I'm trying to temper my enthusiasm for the Q1R somewhat, as I await feedback from some partners in crime:-).)

You probably should match your woofers at some point as well. The cloth and foam surround woofers each have a slightly different effect on the midrange.

...sounds like an interesting project. Keep us posted.

Roy

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I'd try the 3/4" Vifa/Tymphany D19TD05-08. That would bring it from 90 db to 84 db which may be more in line with AR 5 or you can add an L-pad or use AR5's level pot. It's rated to handle 50 watts so it should produce about 104 db one meter away on axis.

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_i...roducts_id=8281

Hi soundminded,

I'm glad there are, it seems, a couple of ways to go. First think I'll try the HI Vi but would like to hear the Vifa too.

Question: With the pot in place are the resistors needed? Just want to know for sure, I'm technically challenged.

Thanks, Pete

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Hi soundminded,

I'm glad there are, it seems, a couple of ways to go. First think I'll try the HI Vi but would like to hear the Vifa too.

Question: With the pot in place are the resistors needed? Just want to know for sure, I'm technically challenged.

Thanks, Pete

The resistors are not needed. I suggested them only because I assume that the Vifa tweeter is much more sensitive than the AR tweeter is but I don't have the data, it may be in the library. The only problem with that may be that the range of relative volume adjustment of the tweeter with the pot alone may not be satisfactory. If this is a problem, you could use an L-pad in conjunction with the pot to get the tweeter to whatever level matches the output of the AR tweeter at comparable settings of the pot and still have it present an 8 ohm load to the crossover network. One characteristic of using a pot instead of an L-pad for adjusting the tweeter level in many AR early designs is that as the impedence of the pot/tweeter combination increases when the pot is set for lower output, the crossover frequency shifts downward. This is not necessarily a problem that would increase the likelihood of burning out the tweeter because the current through the tweeter is being reduced at the same time. In fact the crossover frequency decreases linearly with increasing impedence while the heat generated in the tweeter due to current flow will be reduced exponentially (square of the current) so that there is no increase in risk.

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