Grill Removal - AR2ax

[Guest Noel]

Hi, I'm a newbie to the list. I own an early production run pair of 2ax speakers--vintage '65-'66. The grills are attached to the cabinets with staples. Does anyone have a suggestion for removing the grills that will minimize the risk of damage to either the flimsy wooden grill frames or the veneer on the cabinets? I hate to have to buy new grills if it is not necessary, but I cannot think of a safe and easy way to remove the existing grills. Thanks for your help.

Noel

[Mexicomike]

Are you sure they are stapled? I had a pair of 2Axs of the same era which I purchased new when I was in college in 1965 - the grills were glued, not stapled in place. If they really are stapled, I doubt you can remove them without destroying them since, as you noted, the grill frames are rather fragile. Even glued, the grill/cloth is very difficult to remove without damage unless you are lucky and the glue wasn't applied all that well originally. A small L-shaped tool like a thin allen wrench is the only thing I have used that had any chance of success. It has to be small enough to slide between the frame and grill, then rotate 90 degrees so it can pull on just the grill. You want to place the tool right next to the glued area and slowly/carefully pull it out. Chances are pretty good that the grill frame will break anyway so my advice is to be prepared for the fact that you will have to replace the grill/cloth anyway, whether you intend to or not! If you don't care about the cloth, intending to replace it later, the grills are much easier to remove since you can just cut out the cloth and remove the grills with any number of tools like a putty knife.

Cloth is available that essentially matches the original as are the grill frames. The old cloth, no matter how good its condition, is yellowish/brownish now and new cloth will make the speakers look like they did when they were new. Frankly, I would just start out with the intention of replacing the cloth which makes the whole project a LOT easier.

Pic shows my 3As with the new cloth but original grill frames. My LSTs have the same new cloth with the back of the LST grill shown and a support added which is necessary to get a nice straight line along the top of the grill. Otherwise, pulling the new cloth tight tends to warp the center of the frame.

[Carlspeak]

Check out the link below for information on a tool I found at Staples which is perfect for neatly removing those pesky staples. The tool makes removal easy. What's hard is finding them. They are a bronze color which matches the cloth color quite well.

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Boar...;hl=grille+tool

Once you get the staples out, you need to work around the edge of the grille frame with a wide putty knife type implement like that used to scrape wallpaper/etc. DO THIS VERY GENTLY WITH GREAT PATIENCE AND EVENTUALLY THE GLUE BONDS WILL BREAk BEFORE THE GRILLE FRAME DOES. Work the knife around behind the edge of the frame and push toward the center of the speaker.

Be sure to remove all the staples though. Any leftovers will make the putty knie work almost impossible.

Good luck!

[Guest Noel]

Are you sure they are stapled? I had a pair of 2Axs of the same era which I purchased new when I was in college in 1965 - the grills were glued, not stapled in place. If they really are stapled, I doubt you can remove them without destroying them since, as you noted, the grill frames are rather fragile. Even glued, the grill/cloth is very difficult to remove without damage unless you are lucky and the glue wasn't applied all that well originally. A small L-shaped tool like a thin allen wrench is the only thing I have used that had any chance of success. It has to be small enough to slide between the frame and grill, then rotate 90 degrees so it can pull on just the grill. You want to place the tool right next to the glued area and slowly/carefully pull it out. Chances are pretty good that the grill frame will break anyway so my advice is to be prepared for the fact that you will have to replace the grill/cloth anyway, whether you intend to or not! If you don't care about the cloth, intending to replace it later, the grills are much easier to remove since you can just cut out the cloth and remove the grills with any number of tools like a putty knife.

Cloth is available that essentially matches the original as are the grill frames. The old cloth, no matter how good its condition, is yellowish/brownish now and new cloth will make the speakers look like they did when they were new. Frankly, I would just start out with the intention of replacing the cloth which makes the whole project a LOT easier.

Pic shows my 3As with the new cloth but original grill frames. My LSTs have the same new cloth with the back of the LST grill shown and a support added which is necessary to get a nice straight line along the top of the grill. Otherwise, pulling the new cloth tight tends to warp the center of the frame.

[Guest fwardell]

I agree with the grill removal proccesses mention so far. I have used something like an ice pick in the corner, gently prying up the edge (using tape to protect the wood) and then pushing the tip into the grill edge and slowly lifting the grill as the glue or velcro separates from the cabinet. For my AR-3A grill cloths, I did the following with nice results: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthrea...ghlight=formula. Note that the $69 was for grills and cloths - cloth alone is $39.

Hey, mexicomike, interesting that you put additional pieces of cloth on the grill at the speaker locations. Eliminates the dark shadow, I guess?

[Mexicomike]

Hey, mexicomike, interesting that you put additional pieces of cloth on the grill at the speaker locations. Eliminates the dark shadow, I guess?

I assume the "shadows" you refer to are the contrast between the speaker area and the rest of the grill?

I didn't add any cloth anywhere. What makes the "shadows" disappear is to ensure that the front board, where the speakers are mounted is still painted black as the originals were and, that if you put in new grill frames, that the front of the grill frame is also painted black, as the originals were. With everything black, there is no noticeable difference in the appearance through the cloth.

When I restored my 3As I used new grill frames and initially did not paint them black. When I put the grill in the first speaker, it had obvious shadows. So I unstapled the cloth, painted the front of the grill black, reinstalled the cloth, and put the grill back in place which eliminated the shadow. Again, I just duplicated the original AR setup. I can't recall being able to see any shadow from the speakers on my original 2AXs or my 3As when they were new though it's been a long time and I may be "dis-remembering!"

Here's a pic of the first 3A after I installed the grillcloth on the unpainted frame with the "shadows" clearly visible. The pic in my earlier post shows the speaker(s) after I removed the cloth, painted the frame and reinstalled it. If you paint your frames black, the shadow will disappear.

NOTE: in my previous post I said that the 3As had the original frames. That is WRONG. I had forgotten that I purchased new frames/cloth for the 3As. The LSTs have orignal frames/new cloth.

[Guest Noel]

Thank you, one and all for your helpful suggestions and comments on removing the stapled 2ax grills. I intend to put them to good use. Thanks again. Noel

[genek]

When I restored my 3As I used new grill frames and initially did not paint them black. When I put the grill in the first speaker, it had obvious shadows. So I unstapled the cloth, painted the front of the grill black, reinstalled the cloth, and put the grill back in place which eliminated the shadow. Again, I just duplicated the original AR setup. I can't recall being able to see any shadow from the speakers on my original 2AXs or my 3As when they were new though it's been a long time and I may be "dis-remembering!"

When my 2ax's were new I could see a difference in tone between the black-colored hardboard frames and the open areas; I could not see such a difference on my 6's, which came with narrow black-colored wood frames. As the years passed, both speakers developed a much more obvious difference as black pigment from their frames gradually leached into and through the linen, and that discoloration is what finally made it necessary to replace the fabric. When I regrilled the 2ax's and 6's a couple of years ago, and the 3a's I just finished working on, I decided to not paint the new frames and live with the difference. It's only noticeable to me in direct sunlight or flash photos anyway.

[Mexicomike]

Interesting, I've seen a several sets of original ARs from the 60's/70's and although I've seen the very yellowed grills (as my Circa 1971 3As had when I got them), I have never seen one where the paint leached into the fabric as happened to yours. Wonder if it has anything to do with the conditions the speakers were stored under? Oil or lacquer-based paint wouldn't do that unless the speakers were exposed to some sort of solvent/fumes. Latex or paint could do that in a dampish environment I suppose. I used regular old spray can lacquer.

Shoot, if I have to redo it in 30 years, what the heck?

[genek]

Interesting, I've seen a several sets of original ARs from the 60's/70's and although I've seen the very yellowed grills (as my Circa 1971 3As had when I got them), I have never seen one where the paint leached into the fabric as happened to yours. Wonder if it has anything to do with the conditions the speakers were stored under? Oil or lacquer-based paint wouldn't do that unless the speakers were exposed to some sort of solvent/fumes. Latex or paint could do that in a dampish environment I suppose. I used regular old spray can lacquer.

My 2ax's and 6's were in my living room, which AFAIK was not normally fume-laden. I presume that the problem was caused by the glue that was used to attach the fabric to the frames along with the staples (on both speakers the fabric was glued to the front surfaces of the frames, then wrapped around to the back and stapled). I didn't use glue on the new grills, but just decided to play it safe and kept everything natural. My grills on my 3a's weren't glued, just stapled, and had no black bleed-through, and were just generally trashed before I replaced them.