AR-3 Pair eBay

[tysontom]

There is a nice pair of AR-3s on eBay in Lacquered Walnut. I don't know the overall condition, and the seller has opened one grill (which shouldn't have been done), but the speakers do look to be in good condition. This is the same finish as the AR-3 in the Smithsonian. Image attached is the Smithsonian Lacquered Walnut AR-3 shown in left of image.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...A:IT&ih=012

--Tom Tyson

[genek]

There is a nice pair of AR-3s on eBay in Lacquered Walnut. I don't know the overall condition, and the seller has opened one grill (which shouldn't have been done), but the speakers do look to be in good condition.

The finish appears to need some restoration and touchup. I'd probably remove the grilles before doing that anyway, as the original fabric is "unobtanium" today.

[tysontom]

The finish appears to need some restoration and touchup. I'd probably remove the grilles before doing that anyway, as the original fabric is "unobtanium" today.

genek,

Yes, there is some need for touch-up on those speakers from what I can determine, but remember that the finish is Lacquered Walnut, not Oiled Walnut, so you can't easily go in there and do any meaninful "refinishing" or "restoration" on that type of finish.

If it is to be refinished, the complete finish needs to be stripped away and sanded, the cabinet would then have to be re-stained, sealed and then three coats of a clear-Lacquer spray finish would have to be spray-applied. AR doesn't say it in the attached sheet, but there is no possible way to brush-paint a Lacquer finish, it will look like you-know-what. It can't be done. Varnish or urethane finishes can be brushed, but they look like crap, too. Only Lacquer finish has that smooth, grain-free appearance. Above all, of course, is the requirement that the grills would have to be removed, the baffle taped off (like a car fender), and the back panel taped off before doing any "refinishing" of a Lacquered finish. On the other hand, the light scratches can be effectively covered with scratch-remover, and the spots on the front molding can likely be removed with care. Once all this is done, a couple coats of paste wax would be required. Note, too, that once the grill is removed, it takes the patience of Job to re-install it without it being noticeable. The AR-3 saran/nylon grill (these versions have the gold thread) is actually glued in under the slots around the molding, so this task is extremely difficult to get right.

--Tom Tyson

[genek]

Yes, there is some need for touch-up on those speakers from what I can determine, but remember that the finish is Lacquered Walnut, not Oiled Walnut, so you can't easily go in there and do any meaninful "refinishing" or "restoration" on that type of finish.

If it is to be refinished, the complete finish needs to be stripped away and sanded, the cabinet would then have to be re-stained, sealed and then three coats of a clear-Lacquer spray finish would have to be spray-applied. AR doesn't say it in the attached sheet, but there is no possible way to brush-paint a Lacquer finish, it will look like you-know-what. It can't be done.

Actually, it can, because the original finish was lacquer (if it was a modern poly, you'd be SOL for this method and would have to resort to the process you describe).

You use small brushes, folded wads of soft cotton fabric and blends of clear and amber padding shellac/lacquer, aka "French lacquer." To fill those areas on the front trim that look like dissolved spots and any other gashes, chips or damaged areas, apply the amber lacquer with the brushes until the color matches, switch to clear until spots are roughly filled in, then sand smooth with extremely fine paper and use the wadded cotten and clear lacquer to apply a thin topcoat and buff down the irregular surface.

This process is called "french polishing," and used to be the default method of applying or repairing a lacquer finish prior to the invention of the spray gun. Each new coat buffed on will soften and blend into the existing coats.

Here's a link to how it's done. Just think of the AR speaker as a really big, heavy, rectangular musical instrument.

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPAGES/Luthier/Te...nchpolish3.html

[tysontom]

Actually, it can, because the original finish was lacquer (if it was a modern poly, you'd be SOL for this method and would have to resort to the process you describe).

You use small brushes, folded wads of soft cotton fabric and blends of clear and amber padding shellac/lacquer, aka "French lacquer." To fill those areas on the front trim that look like dissolved spots and any other gashes, chips or damaged areas, apply the amber lacquer with the brushes until the color matches, switch to clear until spots are roughly filled in, then sand smooth with extremely fine paper and use the wadded cotten and clear lacquer to apply a thin topcoat and buff down the irregular surface.

This process is called "french polishing," and used to be the default method of applying or repairing a lacquer finish prior to the invention of the spray gun. Each new coat buffed on will soften and blend into the existing coats.

Here's a link to how it's done. Just think of the AR speaker as a really big, heavy, rectangular musical instrument.

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPAGES/Luthier/Te...nchpolish3.html

Well, "never say never," right? The only problem with this complicated "french polishing" technique is that only about 1/2-of-1 percent of the human race could ever attempt to do it and get correct results. It's a highly specialized method of refinishing used by antique dealers and musical-instrument-repair people, and it's not something the average person could take on. However, when you get these AR-3s -- and I hope you win them if you are bidding on them as they are nice ones -- you could do a photo-restoration "tips" to add to this site showing how to touch-up these special finishes!

--Tom Tyson

[genek]

Well, "never say never," right? The only problem with this complicated "french polishing" technique is that only about 1/2-of-1 percent of the human race could ever attempt to do it and get correct results. It's a highly specialized method of refinishing used by antique dealers and musical-instrument-repair people, and it's not something the average person could take on. However, when you get these AR-3s -- and I hope you win them if you are bidding on them as they are nice ones -- you could do a photo-restoration "tips" to add to this site showing how to touch-up these special finishes!

Unfortunately, I'm just finishing up the restoration of my 3a's, and there's no more room at the inn for any more speakers. But if someone reading this in the San Diego, Ca area decides to go for them, I'd be happy to lend a hand.

It's true that traditional shellac-based French polishing is a skill that requires time to develop, but if you look up your nearest woodworking club, there will almost certainly be someone who can help or do it for you. It's not that obscure a finish.

For the diehard who wants to DIY, I just did a quick check to see if modern chemical technology has been thrown at it, and sure enough:

http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/catalog_br...140&atomz=1

I think you'll still need to touch up the worn or damaged spots in the finish with a brush and sand smooth before applying.

[tysontom]

It's true that traditional shellac-based French polishing is a skill that requires time to develop, but if you look up your nearest woodworking club, there will almost certainly be someone who can help or do it for you. It's not that obscure a finish.

For the diehard who wants to DIY, I just did a quick check to see if modern chemical technology has been thrown at it, and sure enough:

http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/catalog_br...140&atomz=1

Well, if you are artistic and can do a good job at découpage, perhaps this French polishing will work for you. It appears to be an art form and would require a lot of knowledge and skill anyway you look at it. I might also add that the "French polish" end-result shown in the description is much glossier than the original AR finish, which is almost exactly like the Lacquered finishes done by Steinway Piano. The AR finishes fall somewhere between glossy and satin, but are not the super-bright, glossy finish shown in that attachment on French polish. I'm sure there are ways to tone it down, but one would need to know what one was doing.

In the end, perhaps it would be easier to strip, sand, seal and spray.

--Tom Tyson

[genek]

Well, if you are artistic and can do a good job at découpage, perhaps this French polishing will work for you. It appears to be an art form and would require a lot of knowledge and skill anyway you look at it. I might also add that the "French polish" end-result shown in the description is much glossier than the original AR finish, which is almost exactly like the Lacquered finishes done by Steinway Piano. The AR finishes fall somewhere between glossy and satin, but are not the super-bright, glossy finish shown in that attachment on French polish. I'm sure there are ways to tone it down, but one would need to know what one was doing.

In the end, perhaps it would be easier to strip, sand, seal and spray.

Gloss in lacquer is proportional to thickness. If you look at that photo where the guy digs his finger into the finish, you can see the thickness required to achieve that level of gloss.

Yes, stripping, sanding, sealing and spraying is definitely easier if you have the right equipment, which is why spraying replaced French polish as the default method for lacquer. French polish would be the preferred method for a restoration (for example if you intended to put these in the Smithsonian), or if you couldn't afford a compressor, spray gun and a spray booth with filtered air (because dust is the mortal enemy of a decent lacquer finish), and an explosion proof exhaust (did I mention that nitrocellulose lacquer has about the same explosive potential as gasoline?)

[tysontom]

Gloss in lacquer is proportional to thickness. If you look at that photo where the guy digs his finger into the finish, you can see the thickness required to achieve that level of gloss.

Yes, stripping, sanding, sealing and spraying is definitely easier if you have the right equipment, which is why spraying replaced French polish as the default method for lacquer. French polish would be the preferred method for a restoration (for example if you intended to put these in the Smithsonian), or if you couldn't afford a compressor, spray gun and a spray booth with filtered air (because dust is the mortal enemy of a decent lacquer finish), and an explosion proof exhaust (did I mention that nitrocellulose lacquer has about the same explosive potential as gasoline?)

Well, as we said, French polish an art form -- découpage-like -- and not for the feint of heart. Can you imagine the amount of experimentation a novice would have to do to repair the speaker’s finish to match the original? It looks like it would be fun, but quite frankly I wouldn’t want to sacrifice a pair of expensive AR-3s to try to replicate the process.

The Smithsonian prefers not to have “restoration” projects; they want original-condition items in good condition. The AR-3s I donated to the museum were not perfect, but they were in very good condition. From the attachment you can see little nicks and marks on the cabinet, but nothing particularly bad. The pictured AR-3 is the mate to the one on display.

As for stripping, sanding, sealing and spraying clear lacquer, this is something that is probably best left to a cabinet-maker or professional (actually, a auto body shop could spray on the clear lacquer in one of their spray booths for very little cost once the cabinet was sanded, sealed and prepped for the spray).

--Tom Tyson

[genek]

Well, as we said, French polish an art form -- découpage-like -- and not for the feint of heart. Can you imagine the amount of experimentation a novice would have to do to repair the speaker’s finish to match the original? It looks like it would be fun, but quite frankly I wouldn’t want to sacrifice a pair of expensive AR-3s to try to replicate the process.

The Smithsonian prefers not to have “restoration” projects; they want original-condition items in good condition. The AR-3s I donated to the museum were not perfect, but they were in very good condition. From the attachment you can see little nicks and marks on the cabinet, but nothing particularly bad. The pictured AR-3 is the mate to the one on display.

As for stripping, sanding, sealing and spraying clear lacquer, this is something that is probably best left to a cabinet-maker or professional (actually, a auto body shop could spray on the clear lacquer in one of their spray booths for very little cost once the cabinet was sanded, sealed and prepped for the spray).

Ok, forget what I said about the Smithsonian. That's what happens when PBS stops taping new Antiques Roadshows.

If I didn't have the skills to repair a lacquer finish, I would definitely call in a professional. Any antique shop can probably provide a referral to someone who can spot repair the finish, either by wadding or with an airbrush (an equally tricky but considerably less hazardous approach we didn't get into previously), or do the stripping, repair and respray. Probably cost somewhere between $200 and $500, depending on where you live, but that's less than the cost of a good spray rig, and way less than the cost of a booth or a trip to the emergency room and repairs to the garage after you blow it up trying to spray nitrocellulose.

[tysontom]

Ok, forget what I said about the Smithsonian. That's what happens when PBS stops taping new Antiques Roadshows.

If I didn't have the skills to repair a lacquer finish, I would definitely call in a professional. Any antique shop can probably provide a referral to someone who can spot repair the finish, either by wadding or with an airbrush (an equally tricky but considerably less hazardous approach we didn't get into previously), or do the stripping, repair and respray. Probably cost somewhere between $200 and $500, depending on where you live, but that's less than the cost of a good spray rig, and way less than the cost of a booth or a trip to the emergency room and repairs to the garage after you blow it up trying to spray nitrocellulose.

Agreed! Good point on DIY nitrocellulose combustion!

--Tom Tyson