Crossover to speaker wire gauge

[Guest RobH]

The 4" and 10" drivers for my AR48s are out for professional refoaming and now I'm looking at other areas for additional improvement.

The wires from the crossovers to the speaker terminals appear to be 22 ga or perhaps 18 ga at the most. I don't really want to cut them to find out.

But, would I see any noticeable improvement in performance if I replaced these 12" or so leads with something like 12 ga wires.

Curious minds would like to know.

Thanks,

Rob

[soundminded]

The 4" and 10" drivers for my AR48s are out for professional refoaming and now I'm looking at other areas for additional improvement.

The wires from the crossovers to the speaker terminals appear to be 22 ga or perhaps 18 ga at the most. I don't really want to cut them to find out.

But, would I see any noticeable improvement in performance if I replaced these 12" or so leads with something like 12 ga wires.

Curious minds would like to know.

Thanks,

Rob

The electrical theory says no. The impedence parameters of these short lengths is so low compared to the impedence of the drivers that their effect is negligable. That means inaudible. Of course I'm sure there are golden ears who would disagree. I'd only ask them to prove they could hear a difference in some kind of fair blind test. If you were going to change them, no larger than ordinary 16 gage lamp cord to the woofers and 18 gage to the other driver(s) would be of value. Someone once wrote a letter to a professional audio video magazine saying he'd been approached by a vendor of exotic wires who tried to sell him his product not on the basis that it would work better because he knew among pros that wouldn't fly but because his customers expected to see them and would be pleased. Whatever you do, don't use telepohone wire. Besides its very thin gage, it is brittle and breaks easily when bent. I made that mistake on the advice of others and now I have to replace it.

[genek]

The wires from the crossovers to the speaker terminals appear to be 22 ga or perhaps 18 ga at the most. I don't really want to cut them to find out.

But, would I see any noticeable improvement in performance if I replaced these 12" or so leads with something like 12 ga wires.

I doubt that there'd be any change that you could detect without the use of instruments. If these were 22 ga wires outside the cabinet, I'd probably change them to 18 ga just for reasons of physical strength, but inside, I wouldn't bother.

[dynaco_dan]

I doubt that there'd be any change that you could detect without the use of instruments. If these were 22 ga wires outside the cabinet, I'd probably change them to 18 ga just for reasons of physical strength, but inside, I wouldn't bother.

Hi there;

Just so that everyone know's it, the larger the number the smaller the wire guage.

There may be a need for replacing inside cabinet speaker wires, such as, from rotten wire insulation.

I have seen some in the heating service field, not ever inside any speaker cabinet.

In fact I have seen lot's in over 39 years in heating equipment, with insulation rot, HPN heater wire and older BX solid wire cable insulation.

Stranded wire of 14 - 18 guage would be more than adequate if it is required to be replaced.

Tinned copper wire is great but it does not need to be.

Ten guage might be considered overkill by some and more difficult to attach to the internal connections, but if one has the wire and is successful, it's ok.

A larger guage wire has less electrical resistance and will handle more amperage.

Do not use solid wire, acid core solder or lighter than, say 18 guage wire for internal wire replacement.

The fact that some older speakers have lighter than 18 guage stranded wire does not mean they should have their wire un-necessarily upgraded.

Last but not least, do not use any aluminum wire.

Vern

[dynaco_dan]

Hi there;

Just so that everyone know's it, the larger the number the smaller the wire guage.

A larger guage wire has less electrical resistance and will handle more amperage.

Do not use solid wire, acid core solder or lighter than, say 18 guage wire for internal wire replacement.

The fact that some older speakers have lighter than 18 guage stranded wire does not mean they should have their wire un-necessarily upgraded.

Last but not least, do not use any aluminum wire.

Vern

Hi again;

Even with all my years of residential/commercial electrical work, I highly recommend soldering connections, not twist-on, setscrew connector with plastic cap, or crimp-on connections.

This is not practical when doing the electrical wiring in a house of course.

Ive seen too much copper single stranded and multi-strand wires break when using twist-on connectors.

In the last 25 plus years we now have more re-cycled copper than ever, sometimes more brittle than in the previous 50 - 100 years.

Sometimes a wire can break in a bundle of wires and it appears to be still in the connection, yet it isn't.

I've spent hours searching an old heating setup with massive amounts of low voltage wire and many multi-connection's, with no connector on the end of the wires.

Sometimes there isn't any electrical tape even.

Makes you wonder how everything worked in the first place.

My first choice would be to solder all leads, after twisting the stripped ends together, solder and then use liquid tape, a black liquid insulator goop that protects the connections from shorting.

There is no hard plastic cap to buzz, should it touch the woofer's basket or cone.

Vern

[Guest Jason Miller]

How much is he charging? if you go to this web page you will see the 10" and 4" surround prices http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZbootapest2 . its one of the few sellers I see selling the 4" surrounds and at good prices. I just did 2 sets of AR 8 speakers with his 10" surrounds. and they came out nicely. I had 18 dollars into 4 10" woofers plus my time. but I am one of these crazy people who do not shim speakers. I dress down on them before its all dry to see if voie coil is rubbing. if so i pull the surround off the outside basket and then press down a few times on the woofer so it auto levels itself then rub my finger around the outside eadge to get it to stick to the basket again. and press down again to make sure its not rubbing. This does the trick for me and I never had to shim a voice coil.

[Guest RobH]

Jason,

I had them refoamed by Orange County Speaker Repair. They charged $35 for each 10" and $25 for each 4". Plus about $30 to pack them up and ship them back. The packages just arrived today and I haven't had a chance to open them up yet, so I can't comment on the quality of the job.

I just wanted this done and really didn't have time to fool with it myself. Too many other projects going on right now and I just want to be able to listen to classical music when I finally get a chance to relax.

$150 sounds like a lot compared to doing it yourself, but after auditioning new speakers it really is a good bargain. I couldn't find anything new that even sounded close to these for under $2000 per pair.

Thanks for your comments.

Rob

[Guest Jason Miller]

Jason,

I had them refoamed by Orange County Speaker Repair. They charged $35 for each 10" and $25 for each 4". Plus about $30 to pack them up and ship them back. The packages just arrived today and I haven't had a chance to open them up yet, so I can't comment on the quality of the job.

I just wanted this done and really didn't have time to fool with it myself. Too many other projects going on right now and I just want to be able to listen to classical music when I finally get a chance to relax.

$150 sounds like a lot compared to doing it yourself, but after auditioning new speakers it really is a good bargain. I couldn't find anything new that even sounded close to these for under $2000 per pair.

Thanks for your comments.

Rob

Most things today are made in china of very cheap parts. Back in the late 90's I worked at Sony. Most of the parts said made in china. They had a lot of service techs their to repair the new off the line Big screen TV's. A lot of new bad parts. parts would come in by the pallet load from China and Korea. At the end of the lines if the TV's didn't test right they went over to service techs that had to trouble shoot and switch out bad boards or repair boards depending on what was wrong with them. it happen often. I used to laugh. the back of the TV's said assembled in the USA with Foreign and domestic parts. all the parts I saw go into them were from over seas. maybe the screws were from the USA. lol

To buy a pair of speakers made as good as some vintage AR's would be close to to $4,000 today. unless you build them yourself. I am not that handy. but I know people who are.

I have a pair of cheap DUAL brand speakers with 15" woofers that are 3 way. I opened them up. they don't even have a crossover. they have a cap going to the tweeter and that's it. even the midrange doesn't have a cap. I thought about buying cheap 3 way crossovers for them. but I am not sure if its worth the time. the woofers have big magnets. bigger then the realistic mach two's I am working on. the midrange also has a nice size magnet. they sound good for cheap speakers but I was thinking they would sound better with crossovers. it should cut down on distortion from the midrange playing threw the woofers and also the lows from going thru the midrange. I thought about replacing the tweeter in them. its not as detailed as I would like, but I wouldn't know how to match it for best sound.

[Guest RobH]

Most things today are made in china of very cheap parts. Back in the late 90's I worked at Sony. Most of the parts said made in china. They had a lot of service techs their to repair the new off the line Big screen TV's. A lot of new bad parts. parts would come in by the pallet load from China and Korea. At the end of the lines if the TV's didn't test right they went over to service techs that had to trouble shoot and switch out bad boards or repair boards depending on what was wrong with them. it happen often. I used to laugh. the back of the TV's said assembled in the USA with Foreign and domestic parts. all the parts I saw go into them were from over seas. maybe the screws were from the USA. lol

To buy a pair of speakers made as good as some vintage AR's would be close to to $4,000 today. unless you build them yourself. I am not that handy. but I know people who are.

I have a pair of cheap DUAL brand speakers with 15" woofers that are 3 way. I opened them up. they don't even have a crossover. they have a cap going to the tweeter and that's it. even the midrange doesn't have a cap. I thought about buying cheap 3 way crossovers for them. but I am not sure if its worth the time. the woofers have big magnets. bigger then the realistic mach two's I am working on. the midrange also has a nice size magnet. they sound good for cheap speakers but I was thinking they would sound better with crossovers. it should cut down on distortion from the midrange playing threw the woofers and also the lows from going thru the midrange. I thought about replacing the tweeter in them. its not as detailed as I would like, but I wouldn't know how to match it for best sound.

Jason,

I had no idea that quality new speakers cost so much until I recently went shopping. There is another post I started before this one asking whether people thought that it paid to fix up the AR48s that I have had for about 25 years. Apparently AR48s were not considered to be among ARs best products and most of the answers were luke warm saying that I really had to judge for myself. Well, it didn't take long once I started auditioning new speakers.

I didn't get to the $4000 level because I had no intention of spending that much. It would have been a tough sell to my wife. I thought $800 to $1000 would get me a nice pair. I started with some Polks that had rave reviews on the Internet. What a joke. I finally got up to the $2000 level and found some B&Ws that were acceptable. The salesman said if listened to the $6000 units I would go away crying, so I didn't do it.

Now I understand why there are web sites like this one and why so many people are keeping their old speakers. I'm really anxious to get mine running again, but want to change the wire connectors on the back first and can't get to it right now.

Thanks for your comments.

Rob

[Guest Jason Miller]

another speaker that sounds great that a lot of people don't really think about is the old realistic optimus mach 1 and the mach 2 speakers. If you open them up they have a real crossover inside unlike the new speakers. my mom has two sets of the Mach 2 speakers. she got them at radio shacks half off sale for 300 a pair. reg price was 600 a pair back in the early 90's. I have been looking for a pair for myself. I just finished replacing the surrounds on a set for someone else. I just finished them 10 mins ago. I have a friend that has a pair of Polk speakers He bought at best buy. He keeps saying how good they sound. To me they don't sound as full as I like. I am going to hook up the Mach two's up in the evening and have him come over to show him the difference between the old and new.

I picked up a pair of Kenwoods not to long ago from a thrift store for 15 dollars for the pair. They have a good crossover. They don't have the strong bass that I like but they are nice speakers. Don't get me wrong they have good bass but I like ones that will crack the windows and make the old plaster walls crumble. I had to patch the one woofer. it looked like someone poked it with something. I was able to patch it on the back so it doesn't stick out.

[Guest RobH]

... I have a friend that has a pair of Polk speakers He bought at best buy. He keeps saying how good they sound. To me they don't sound as full as I like. I am going to hook up the Mach two's up in the evening and have him come over to show him the difference between the old and new.

...

That's how the Polk's sound to me. Too thin and sort of raspy. Not rich, full and smooth. I listened to the RTi8 and newer version RTi A5. At $800 a pair they can keep them.

I think that a lot of reviews are based on using them for fronts in 5.1 or 7.1 system to watch movies. In that case they be fine for most people. But for listening to fine symphony orchestras and soloists playing beautiful classical music they are terrible.

[Pete B]

That's how the Polk's sound to me. Too thin and sort of raspy. Not rich, full and smooth. I listened to the RTi8 and newer version RTi A5. At $800 a pair they can keep them.

I think that a lot of reviews are based on using them for fronts in 5.1 or 7.1 system to watch movies. In that case they be fine for most people. But for listening to fine symphony orchestras and soloists playing beautiful classical music they are terrible.

Please give PSB Stratus Golds a listen if you are still curious about hearing some of the best modern speakers.