model 23

[Guest fourwheels0]

does anyone have any info on model 23 speakers?. i've looked around and cannot find hardly any info on them. some say they are rare? is that true and are they worth having.

[Guest fourwheels0]

i've read about fires with these model 23's. something about the voicecoil going to deep or something?. i'm going to go look at them again tomorrow. are they worth $30-$40?. i think the guy wants $60 for them. if the cabinets are near mint i might just see what he'll take and get them anyways lol.

[Guest fourwheels0]

can anyone show me a stock tweeter from a model 23 speaker?. i've read the model 5 and some others are the same so that would be good to see also. i do not think mine are stock.

[Guest fourwheels0]

well they are not stock. i pulled them and they say made in belguim. they do work but i want them back to stock. now i just need to find a suitible replacement set of tweeters and i'll be all set.

[JKent]

The KLH Models spreadsheet in the library isn't much help. It says nothing about the 23's drivers. But it does say that the 28 used the same drivers. Here's a picture of the 28. Maybe this will help a little. They kinda "look like" the tweets in the 5, 12 & 17 (maybe others) but according to the spreadsheet the 5 had a 3" tweeter and the 17 had a 4" tweeter. So it's getting confusing.

Good luck

Kent

[Guest fourwheels0]

kent what are the measurements on those tweeter screw holes. mine are 3 1/2 in. center to center side to side and up and down. they are also the same on my model 17's. it looks like i need to find some model 17 tweets for the 23's. i think i read the model 5 and 17 atleast had the same tweeters. thanks for the pic they look the same as the 17's but mine are black.

[JKent]

I took a quick look at the tweets on my Models Five, Twelve, Seventeen, Twenty and Thirty-Three. They all look the same to me and are 3 1/2" as you describe. The 20s are 4 ohm so may not be appropriate, but it looks like the others are fine, so just look for "KLH tweeters". I see one recently sold on ebay for 28.50. It was described as "Model 5 6 17 & 23". OTOH, a Model 17 woofer, tweeter AND xo just sold for $7.77! Go figure

Good luck

Kent

[Guest fourwheels0]

cool thanks kent. ya i saw where the model 20 was 4 ohms versus the rest being 8 ohms. i'll just have to keep my eyes open for some tweeters.

[JKent]

cool thanks kent. ya i saw where the model 20 was 4 ohms versus the rest being 8 ohms. i'll just have to keep my eyes open for some tweeters.

There's a pair of 28 tweets on ebay now: Item number: 300236101803

It says they measure 4.1 ohms. I wonder if the 28, 23, etc used the same tweets as the 20. I know it was recently discovered that some AR tweeters (think it was the 3a) that were always thought to be 8 ohms were actually 4 ohms and therefore identical to tweeters that had been selling for less because they were not thought to be interchangeable. Just a thought. I'm sure CSP member Pete B would know the impedance measurement of the KLH 20 tweets. Maybe he'll comment here.

Kent

[RoyC]

There's a pair of 28 tweets on ebay now: Item number: 300236101803

It says they measure 4.1 ohms. I wonder if the 28, 23, etc used the same tweets as the 20. I know it was recently discovered that some AR tweeters (think it was the 3a) that were always thought to be 8 ohms were actually 4 ohms and therefore identical to tweeters that had been selling for less because they were not thought to be interchangeable. Just a thought. I'm sure CSP member Pete B would know the impedance measurement of the KLH 20 tweets. Maybe he'll comment here.

Kent

I have compared tweeters from the 17, 20, 23 and 5. They all fit the same size cabinet hole, but the 5 tweeter measures slightly higher dcr (5+ ohms). The 17, 20 and 23 tweeters appear identical, and all measure 4 ohms dcr. Their metal grille/faceplate varies in color.

Roy

[Guest fourwheels0]

royc thanks. i've seen black and silver screens on the tweeters. now i've read that the 20's are 4ohm speakers and the 5,17,23 are 8ohm speakers. so right now i'm keeping my eyes open for a set of tweeters from a set of 5's,17's or 23's. hopefully i can find a good set that don't have any issues. i have lots of home stereo stuff so maybe i can do a little trading or maybe even trade the 23's for a another set of good 17's to match the set i already have.

[RoyC]

royc thanks. i've seen black and silver screens on the tweeters. now i've read that the 20's are 4ohm speakers and the 5,17,23 are 8ohm speakers. so right now i'm keeping my eyes open for a set of tweeters from a set of 5's,17's or 23's. hopefully i can find a good set that don't have any issues. i have lots of home stereo stuff so maybe i can do a little trading or maybe even trade the 23's for a another set of good 17's to match the set i already have.

The KLH 5 tweeter is the one that differs from the rest. The rated impedance of an entire system is an average and a guide. It is NOT tied to the dcr of an individual driver. In other words, the 5 tweeter is NOT the one to use! That tweeter is a rare driver.

I have completed a number of KLH restorations and currently have a pair of KLH 23's awaiting restoration. See the KLH 23 " 4 ohm" tweeter pictured below. It is the same tweeter used in many old KLH models *regardless* of a model's rated impedance. The KLH 23 crossover places 10 to 16 ohms in series with the tweeter depending on the position of the level control switch on the back of the cabinet. The total circuit dcr is therefore 14 to 20 ohms, as there are no parallel components in that circuit!

You simply need to find a pair of the very common 4 ohm (dcr) KLH tweeters. They show up on Ebay often. Don't be too concerned which model they came from as long as they are the "4 ohm" version, and have the proper dimensions.

Roy

[punchback]

I'm looking to replace some missing tweeters in a pair of KLH 23's. RoyC please confirm that tweeters from 17, 20, or 23's are suitable replacements. I've seen a few different people saying other things such as the 5, 12, or 23 are suitable. Here you definitively say that the 5 is NOT a preferred replacement. What do you think about the 12?

This webpage http://www.aphenos.net/electronics/speakers/klh/all_klh.htm indicates the 5, 12, and 23 are interchangeable.

Alan

The KLH 5 tweeter is the one that differs from the rest. The rated impedance of an entire system is an average and a guide. It is NOT tied to the dcr of an individual driver. In other words, the 5 tweeter is NOT the one to use! That tweeter is a rare driver. The 17, 20, and 23 tweeter is the same animal, and the one that is appropriate for your KLH 23 crossover.

(By the way, "4 ohms dcr" is actually high for a typical "4 ohm" tweeter, which will usually measure 3 ohms or less dcr... and it is not unusual for an "8 ohm" tweeter to measure 5 ohms dcr. )

I have completed a number of KLH restorations and currently have a pair of KLH 23's awaiting restoration. See the KLH 23 " 4 ohm" tweeter pictured below. It is the same tweeter used in many old KLH models *regardless* of a model's rated impedance. The KLH 23 crossover places 10 to 16 ohms in series with the tweeter depending on the position of the level control switch on the back of the cabinet. The total circuit dcr is therefore 14 to 20 ohms, as there are no parallel components in that circuit!

You simply need to find a pair of the very common 4 ohm (dcr) KLH tweeters. They show up on Ebay often. Don't be too concerned which model they came from as long as they are the "4 ohm" version, and have the proper dimensions.

[RoyC]

I'm looking to replace some missing tweeters in a pair of KLH 23's. RoyC please confirm that tweeters from 17, 20, or 23's are suitable replacements. I've seen a few different people saying other things such as the 5, 12, or 23 are suitable. Here you definitively say that the 5 is NOT a preferred replacement. What do you think about the 12?

This webpage http://www.aphenos.net/electronics/speakers/klh/all_klh.htm indicates the 5, 12, and 23 are interchangeable.

Alan

Hi Alan,

The KLH tweeter situation is proving to be a puzzle. I have worked on a number of KLH speakers since I posted here in 2008, and have also read the findings of others, and the information seems to be somewhat conflicting.

I now believe KLH, like AR, was changing things on the fly. The KLH 17 and 20 (and all other 2-way KLH models I have seen) appear to have used the same 4 ohm tweeter regardless of the rated impedance of the system. The KLH 5 and 12 used the same drivers as verified in the link you provided, and, at least for awhile, used a tweeter with a slightly higher impedance based on my own experience. The KLH 23 shared the same woofer as the 5 and the 12, but the tweeter appears uncertain. (The 23 is a two-way system, and the 5 and 12 are 3 way systems.) I have worked on two pairs of KLH 23's in the past few years, and both have had the same 4 ohm tweeter I have found in the KLH 17 and 20.

Of course, it is also not known which speakers received original KLH replacement tweeters along the way. To make things more confusing, it is not possible to discern differences by the varied appearance of the tweeters' metal faceplates.

I have since interchanged a number of these old KLH tweeters and have not found any of them to be subjectively objectionable in any model. The majority of the old tweeters measure 4 ohms and, regardless of color, have the same physical characteristics. At this point my suggestion is to find matching pairs by measuring resistance. I doubt the sonic differences, if any, are significant.

Roy

[punchback]

Royc,

I will be trying to acquire a set, for my 23's, and not really pay too much attention to which KLH model they came from. It would be great if I could find a set from some 23's but I'm not going to lose too much sleep over it if I don't.

I'm looking at veneer to restore the exterior. Have you ever done any restoration of the veneer? Many of the picture I see have an orangish hue almost mahogany like. Do you think that's more to do with the oil finish that many people prefer?

Do you have any suggestions for a close match to the 23 grill cover material?

Alan

[RoyC]

Alan,

The veneer is thick enough to be sanded if you are careful. I use epoxy putty for filling in gouges and rebuilding corners, and prefer Watco Danish Oil (medium or dark walnut) for finishing after sanding. There are other forum members with cabinet refinishing experience who may chime in here.

I am not aware of a source for the "authentic" style of KLH cloth, but the website below (123 Stitch) has a variety of 18ct linen, which works well for any of the old type of speaker grilles. I personally use 18ct "Lambswool" for all of the old beasts, but some of the darker shades may be of interest to KLH fans.

http://www.123stitch.com/cgi-perl/itemdetail.pl?item=59-135X

Roy

[JKent]

Alan,

I agree with Roy. Most old cabinets can be refurbished. Modern walnut veneer is very unlike the stuff used on 50-yr-old KLH speakers which are, as you observe, orangeish. Some very careful sanding can work wonders. Roy uses epoxy "sticks" from Mohawk which are very convenient and work well. I have had success with John O'Hanlon's formula of epoxy mixed with Mixol #22 tint or with very fine walnut sanding dust.

I used the Lambswool linen that Roy linked to on some KLH Model Twelves and they came out beautiful. The Twelves originally had an off-white boucle material. The linen has an authentic "look" although it is not original. You could also look in fabric stores for a fairly open weave linen (real linen--NOT synthetic). Michael's craft stores may still sell CharlesCraft linen cross-stitch material which may be acceptable.

Most KLH speakers had a 2-layer grille. I think the sheer black material backing is unnecessary.

The original grilles were dark brown (or maybe they were black/brown) but I think you should go with whatever color suits you.

btw--as you may know, KLH guru Andrew Hayden has written "If you ever have a chance to buy the model 23's, buy them. KLH's best two-way speaker. Same woofer and cabinet volume as the three-way model 5 that go for big bucks these days. The 23's sold for about $160. each new. Today they are often under the radar and sell for very little. It's a super nice speaker with very strong bass response. Love this speaker ! !"

Kent