fred Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 Hello all,What would i gain/lose if i build a better enclosure for my beloved improveds?And what would be the effects of placing the woofer, midrange and tweeter in a vertical array.Greetings from Holland! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genek Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 What would i gain/lose if i build a better enclosure for my beloved improveds?And what would be the effects of placing the woofer, midrange and tweeter in a vertical array.Greetings from Holland!What would you consider a "better" enclosure?Some speaker rebuilders I've corresponded with in Asia, where people often live in very small spaces, tell me that making speakers in vertical or mirrored arrangements can reduce imaging problems. I've never noticed any such problems in an average US living room, but don't know what living space is like in Holland.One thing you would almost certainly lose is any collector value the speakers might have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred Posted March 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 What would you consider a "better" enclosure?Some speaker rebuilders I've corresponded with in Asia, where people often live in very small spaces, tell me that making speakers in vertical or mirrored arrangements can reduce imaging problems. I've never noticed any such problems in an average US living room, but don't know what living space is like in Holland.One thing you would almost certainly lose is any collector value the speakers might have.Better could be: less resonant and more rigid, with thicker walls and internal braces.Mdf of 22mm and an even thicker front.I don't want to destroy the original enclosures, so i plan to construct new filters and place them outside of the speakers.The listeningroom is 11m x 4.5m x 2.80m with stone floor, walls and ceiling, with a thick carpet and plenty of furniture.Who can give further information? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genek Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 Better could be: less resonant and more rigid, with thicker walls and internal braces.I have no experience with the 3a "improved," but the original 3/3a is about as nonresonant as a speaker box could be without casting it out of concrete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 Better could be: less resonant and more rigid, with thicker walls and internal braces.Mdf of 22mm and an even thicker front.I don't want to destroy the original enclosures, so i plan to construct new filters and place them outside of the speakers.The listeningroom is 11m x 4.5m x 2.80m with stone floor, walls and ceiling, with a thick carpet and plenty of furniture.Who can give further information?If you want thicker walls and internal braces, check this link for info on bracing and lead lining:http://www.humanspeakers.com/howto/bracing.htmOther than some "invisible" internal bracing, I'm afraid your modifications would destroy the character and value of your speakers. If you are intent on building "better" speakers, why not build the whole thing, with new drivers and crossovers. You could sell the originals to pay for the project, or keep them if you have room. If you had a Rembrandt would you want to "touch it up"? good luckKent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynaco_dan Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 I have no experience with the 3a "improved," but the original 3/3a is about as nonresonant as a speaker box could be without casting it out of concrete.Hi there;That comment is about as accurate as it gets.How about a solid maple cabinet?Has anyone read anything about a portable concrete speaker enclosure?I read many decades ago about a speaker, a sub-woofer only enclosure, basement room of concrete, exiting to the main floor, I believe it was in England.I don't remember the details but probably not too WAF friendly today.There was also an article, who knows where and when, about coating the complete inside of the enclosure with car undercoating compound to deaden the enclosure.There may have been a vapour problem reacting with the foam surrounds over time, being oil based.There was an article about using plastercene (spel) and layering 1/4" or more on the complete inside of the enclosure, including the drivers, crossover and woofer frame.What if the rear of the enclosure, directly behind the woofer, was shaped outward like a fruitbowl, with added insulation, MMMMM.What if there was various air or other inert gas filled bladders, inside the enclosure, composed of different materials to support woofer compression at different frequencies.Ok, just a thought or two, out in left field for a Sunday, as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mrhagerty Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Hello all,What would i gain/lose if i build a better enclosure for my beloved improveds?And what would be the effects of placing the woofer, midrange and tweeter in a vertical array.Greetings from Holland!You mention improvements you would like to implement, but I don't see clearly in your posts a problem that is occassioning the consideration of better enclosures. You do mention less resonance, but I don't think I've ever heard a discouraging sound from AR 3a improveds based on a resonance that needed adjustment.Seems to me that reinforcing walls so that they are more rigid would certainly change the resonance point, but I have to believe the designers accommodated something others here have admired - sweetness. That seems inevitably a sacrifice you would beget for the sake of resonance adjustment.Again, are there sonic or performance issues with the factory design that are nagging you?Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlspeak Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 I think Mike's last sentence above put it quite well. Unless you have some pretty sophisticated instrumentation or an accelerometer, it's typically pretty hard to tell if you truly have a cabinet induced resonance issue. OTOH, if you can actually feel the cabinet vibrate and buzz, you've probably got a more serious repair problem not intentioned by the original design. There are some audio enthusiasts who get pretty hung up on cabinet resonances. They build cabinets of solid concrete or do what B&W did with their flagship 801 bracing design. However, cabinet resonances can only be a factor of the speaker is of the highest quality with the best resolution. I personally don't think vintage AR speakers fall into that category. (Oh Boy, here comes the #$ storm from the AR purists). I'm not accusing you of falling into this category, but just making personal observations after years in the audio industry/Again, what EVIDENCE do you have that points to the cabinet as the root cause of an audible cabinet induced resonance problem??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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