Information on AR-16 speakers

[l24e]

I am looking for any information on the AR-16 speakers.

I have googled these speakers and generally I keep getting the ar16 cables or other AR speakers which is of no

use to me.

I know that these were made during the teledyne era and that my speakers s/n 240 &243 in walnut, but I want

to know how they compare to other AR's??

Thank you,

L24e

[l24e]

I am looking for any information on the AR-16 speakers.

I have googled these speakers and generally I keep getting the ar16 cables or other AR speakers which is of no

use to me.

I know that these were made during the teledyne era and that my speakers s/n 240 &243 in walnut, but I want

to know how they compare to other AR's??

Thank you,

L24e

ps

Here are some pics of my speakers (1 actually) and please try to block out the curtains in the background

as I had little choice in the matter ( ie the anchor ).

Also, these were made under licence in Australia!

cheers,

ken

[johnieo]

Don't have the crossover wiring, but the high range looks identical to that used in the AR-14. The midrange is the same 8-in driver as used in the AR-4xa, -MST, -6, -9, -16, and -15.

The AR-14 used a ten-inch driver mounted in an AR-3a-size cabinet to improve the woofer's bass cutoff frequency. Don't have cabinet dimensions of the 16, but suspect it might be attempting a similar thing with its eight-inch driver.

Cheers,

John

[johnieo]

The midrange is the same

I meant to say "The woofer is the same...."

[Diamonds&Rust]

I am looking for any information on the AR-16 speakers.

You can find a sales brochure for these in the forum Library here:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/library...ar-16_brochure/

The AR16 was something like an 8" woofer version of the AR14, apparently using the same tweeter crossed-over at 1300Hz; the same as the AR14.

From the brochures on both speakers: The AR14 was -3db at 44Hz and the AR16 says its "system resonance" is 55Hz without giving a -3db spec.

In the photos it looks as though the woofer surround has deteriorated. This is a situation you should remedy immediately and save those woofers. You are going to have to be careful selecting a surround because many are going to be too stiff. You need "very compliant" (floppy) surrounds. I can't help with what brand or where to buy them. The brochure gives you a free air resonance (Fs) number to shoot-for, so if you have a repair shop capable of testing their work, that's the number you want to pay most attention to.

Also, be careful should you decide to replace the crossover capacitor. You may want to read what has been said on the forum about adding a **small** amount of resistance (half an Ohm or so) to a new poly cap, or go back with a non-polar electrolytic as the original. You may find they shriek a little right around the crossover frequency if you don't compensate for using poly caps. Or you might not notice at all - can't say - I haven't worked on an AR16.

The AR14 gets a little rough right in that crossover area if you use poly caps and no "extra" resistance, so that's why I'm guessing the AR16 might.

That's an unusual tweeter and you should probably replace the capacitor to protect it. If you blow one of those you will be hard-pressed to find anything that will fit in the cabinet and/or that will crossover that low unless you can find a used one just like it.

They could also be compared to an AR17 with a more expensive tweeter.

How do you like them?

[Rich W]

In the photos it looks as though the woofer surround has deteriorated. This is a situation you should remedy immediately and save those woofers. You are going to have to be careful selecting a surround because many are going to be too stiff. You need "very compliant" (floppy) surrounds. I can't help with what brand or where to buy them. The brochure gives you a free air resonance (Fs) number to shoot-for, so if you have a repair shop capable of testing their work, that's the number you want to pay most attention to.

I've refoamed quite a few speakers from the AR-7 /AR-18 series which use very similar if not identical woofers to your AR16's. The best replacement surrounds I've found are from Parts Express (www.partsexpress.com). They have the both widest semi-circular "ring" and are made from the thinnest material. PE will generally send you two pairs: use the pair that downward-angled inner circumference for proper attachment to this particular woofer cone. It also has a more prominent "ring" profile. The pair not to use is light grey with a shallow ring.

The PE surrounds have yielded excellent performance. In every woofer of this type I've refoamed, I've achieved an Fs within + or - 2 hz of the stated spec.

In restorations of an AR-7 and an AR-18 (same generation as the AR-16), I've gotten good results with Solens caps and no additional series resistance. However, a later-series AR-18S seemed overly bright with the Solens, and could have probably benefited from a small value series resistor. If you choose to recap your AR-16's (not a bad idea for 30 year old speakers), you may to try both with and without an additional .33 to .5 ohm series resistance and see what sounds most balanced.

The AR-16 is comparitively rare and well worth restoring. I've always been a great fan of the AR-18, considering it to be one of the finest small two-way designs ever offered by any manufacture. Although I never had the pleasure of auditioning one, I would suspect that the AR-16 sounds very similar, with somewhat better bass extension (as a result of the larger cabinet) and better high frequency performance (as a result of the dome tweeter). Search the archive for info on the AR-17 and AR-18, and you'll find much relevant information for your restoration project.

If your woofers are in need of refoaming, it's a project that well within the capabilities of a moderately handy individual. Again, search the archives for info on refoaming.

Good luck with your "new" AR-16's!

Best Regards,

Rich W

[l24e]

Hi all and thank you for your contributions,

You have given me a new found inspiration to look into finding the appropriate items for a future refurbishment of these speakers.

I was somewhat surprised to find out that they are not a common speaker to be found ( I thought most owners just never really parted with their toys , ie, anything AR ).

Would you believe some bonehead dumped these speakers, only to have myself adopting them as soon as I laid eyes on them.

Back to the serious stuff now, the speakers themselves sound fantastic to my ears and my friends, but 1 possible reason why the rubber surrounds may appear to be close to expiry is that the camera I was using does have a low quality lens.

Also I was taking the photo in low lit room ...

I don't drive these speakers hard, I keep the volume at a reasonable level, enjoying the music rather than have my ears bleeding.

Even though the volume is at what I believe to be a reasonable level, would that lower the risk of the capacitors failing in the box's or the age of the capacitors be the only factor?

Over all, in their currant condition I am very happy with these babies and I would recommend them to anybody ( If you can find them )!!!!!!

You have given me problem now, to fix these first or my newly acquired Allison cd-6 speakers which was supposed to be my project.

Thanks again,

Kind Regards,

Ken

[Rich W]

Hi Ken,

I think most members of this forum would agree (members - please feel free to chime in!) that if the speakers sound good, you're probably safe using them, especially since you're not driving them very hard. Capacitors generally go out of spec by increaing in value, which lowers the woofer to tweeter crossover frequency. This would send more low fequencies to the tweeter increasing the risk of thermal burnout. If you hear any raspiness coming from your tweeters, that could be a telltale sign.

With respect to your foam surrounds, as a test you can gently give the raised roll area a pinch. If they return to their original state, they are probably fine. If they deform, rip or crumble they will certainly need replacement. Be careful with this test, as they may be in a "borderline" state, i.e. still seal the woofer well, but on the verge of failing. I did such a test on a pair of recently acquired AR-18B's. The surrounds looked fine, but broke apart as I pinched them.

Best Regards,

Rich W

[Diamonds&Rust]

I don't drive these speakers hard, I keep the volume at a reasonable level, enjoying the music rather than have my ears bleeding.

Even though the volume is at what I believe to be a reasonable level, would that lower the risk of the capacitors failing in the box's or the age of the capacitors be the only factor?

Ken,

Let me ask you a question. Suppose you were afraid your car had leaked all the engine oil out on the street. If you drove it real slowly and didn't drag-race anyone, would that make driving it without oil o.k.?

These drivers are crossed-over *very* low for a tweeter. They are crossed-over very close to their resonance. They are operating very close to their limits if everything iin the crossover is working as designed. It wouldn't take much in the way of raised capacitance to force these into a "stress" situation.

[JKent]

It's unbelievable what people throw away! Congrats on the find!

The ears can deceive--I've seen speakers on ebay with totally rotted surrounds that the sellers say "sound fine". I don't think they were lying, but they did not realize the damage that can be done.

Foam surrounds inevitably wil rot, so why not go ahead and replace these? Since they were found on the trash, they should be good "practice" projects before tackling the Allis. Refoaming is not hard but it does take patience and care. Good directions here:

http://www.citlink.net/~msound/

I use MSound kits exclusively--they include everything you need, including shims, dust caps, even alcoholand sandpaper! And while the woofers are out you may as well replace the caps. I'm not familiar with the xover on your speakers. IF they have the corrosion-prone Pollack pots (could not tell from the photos) you should clean them up or replace them with L-pads. And it's easy to replace the old caps.

Speaking of foam, I wonder if those are the original foam grilles on there.

If those are real walnut veneer--not vinyl, they look like they don't need any refinishing. I recommend Howard's Restore-a-Finish to restore the wood without refinishing. You just apply with fine steel wool and wipe it off. You can follow up with Howard's beeswax-based polish. Howards products are available at Home Depot or check their website: http://www.howardproducts.com/restora.htm

Some members have also recommended Old English polish for an easy touch-up: http://www.oldenglishpolish.com/

Be sure to download and read the AR3a Restoration booklet--there is a lot of useful information there that applies to ALL speakers.

Good luck! Ask for help here whenever you need it.

Kent