3 way switch only works in extended...

[Guest scale21]

I just got my first pair of Large Advents

THey are rough...need refoam and the whole works. The cabinets are rough....

I have pulled the woofers \ tweeters out as well as all the foam so i can start work on refinishing as best as possible.

I have noticed that with the 3 way switch on the back......the tweeter will only work with the woofer if my switch is set to extended. They do not work if set to normal or decrease.

IM looking to recap the crossovers and have read that that new caps make them sound brighter? Is this a bad thing? I was thinking of using the Dayton Caps together from parts express to get the 13uf that i need to replace the stock cap. Also i want ot replace the resistors with dayton as well.

I believe my switches on both are bad. Does anyone have a recommendation for good switch replacement with the 3 positions? Maybe it just needs to be cleaned? Can these go bad?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

[Carlspeak]

Yes, replace the caps and resistors. They might sound brighter, but that is what they sounded like when new. If you want them to sound the same, then why change anything?

You can get a 3-way switch at your local hardware store or Parts Express. They are called DPDT or on-off-on switches. Get the one with the screws at the back so you can attach the wires.

[Guest scale21]

so you would screw the posts on the switch rather than solder for the internal wiring including the caps and resistors? I suppose that would be the easiest wouldnt it?

IM on the hunt for a set of switches now

I cant quite read what the stock switch says. IM sure it is 125-250v so im assuming that any switch from 125 - 250v will work. I dont see an amp rating on the switch though. I know PartsExpress has several heavy duty switches but they all have 250v and different Amp ratings.

Thanks

[Doug G.]

OK, I'm assuming you have New (large) Advents based on your reference to 13 uF capacitors.

It is very unlikely that it is the switches that are bad. These are fairly heavy duty types and don't often fail.

If the speaker doesn't work in normal or decrease, it almost has to be R2, the 1 ohm series resistor that is open.

This resistor is not in circuit when the switch is in extended.

Doug

[Guest scale21]

Yes, replace the caps and resistors. They might sound brighter, but that is what they sounded like when new. If you want them to sound the same, then why change anything?

You can get a 3-way switch at your local hardware store or Parts Express. They are called DPDT or on-off-on switches. Get the one with the screws at the back so you can attach the wires.

OK, I'm assuming you have New (large) Advents based on your reference to 13 uF capacitors.

It is very unlikely that it is the switches that are bad. These are fairly heavy duty types and don't often fail.

If the speaker doesn't work in normal or decrease, it almost has to be R2, the 1 ohm series resistor that is open.

This resistor is not in circuit when the switch is in extended.

Doug

Thanks Doug

You are correct. These are the new large Advents. They only work in the Extended position. Ive got a 1ohm and a 1.5ohm on the crossover. I dont see any thing that has come loose or cold solder joints on the 1 ohm at all. A agree that it would be extremely odd that the switch would fail on both. These switches are pretty much bullet proof.

I can try and see what i get for a reading across that 1ohm resistor.

It is odd in that any other switch position is completely dead..no static out the tweeter or anything....just dead.

[Doug G.]

Yes, measure the resistors. I'm betting they're open (infinite reading on meter).

This would explain the complete silence from the tweeters as these resistors are in series with them and the resistors being open would be just like cutting one of the wires.

This is fairly common with low value resistors like these because, with that low a value, the current across them is relatively large.

Somebody, in the past, must have cranked the amplifier too high with these.

Doug

[Guest scale21]

very odd but im not getting any reading across either of the resistors in either crossover. How can this be? Do they burn out with age or from someone cranking the heck out of them?

Hopefully my woofers are ok. I have sound comming out of them although it sounds muffled and weak but the foam is all rotted away and i imagine that has to be part of it.

IS there any way to test the woofers aside from refoaming and hoping for the best?

[Doug G.]

Actually, looking at the schematic again, I see where both resistors could be open in this situation. If only R1, the 1.5 ohm resistor were open, the tweeter would still work in "normal" but not in "decrease." If only R2 were open, the symptoms would be the same as if both resistors are open.

The most likely cause is, of course, somebody cranking them too high. Although it is possible for a resistor element to corrode and open, it's unlikely in this case being that all four are open.

Measure the woofers and they should be about 4.5 ohms. Then set them on their magnets and run a small level signal through them. This will indicate if the voice coils are in good shape. You should hear fairly clear sound albeit at a low level but no scraping. The drivers being on their backs should keep the voice coil centered enough (the spider is still attached) to do this.

These, or any other acoustic suspension speaker system, cannot sound correct with the foam on the woofers rotted for two reasons. One, the foam keeps the cone centered so there is no rubbing of the voice coil in operation and two, the cabinets in acoustic suspension speakers MUST be airtight for correct bass response. If the foam is gone or has holes in it, there will be air leaks.

Keep us posted on your progress and a slightly late welcome to the Advent forum.

Doug

[dynaco_dan]

very odd but im not getting any reading across either of the resistors in either crossover. How can this be? Do they burn out with age or from someone cranking the heck out of them?

Hopefully my woofers are ok. I have sound comming out of them although it sounds muffled and weak but the foam is all rotted away and i imagine that has to be part of it.

IS there any way to test the woofers aside from refoaming and hoping for the best?

Hi there;

If you take a c-cell 1 1/2 volt battery and a pair of alligator clips on about 12 - 24" wires, touch the two woofer terminals only, the woofer cone should move forward or backward with a jump as you touch them.

It will only make the one movement and this will tell you at least if the woofer is healthy.

[dynaco_dan]

Hi there;

If you take a c-cell 1 1/2 volt battery and a pair of alligator clips on about 12 - 24" wires, touch the two woofer terminals only, the woofer cone should move forward or backward with a jump as you touch them.

It will only make the one movement and this will tell you at least if the woofer is healthy.

If you touch the outer cabinet connections, the woofer only should still move, the tweeter is controlled by the cap and will not respond to a battery test.

In a 3 way system, the mid range driver would also not respond to the outer connection to a battery.

[Guest scale21]

Thanks for the welcome.

I believe the sound was ok. No rubbing at all.......just muffled and quiet.

That said. I jumped the speaker with a AA battery and she did jump straight up.

Im not real bright with the multi meter yet. I have a OHMs setting but their are like 5 positions for measuring. IM not sure which one i should be on to get my 4.5 reading.

I did use the continutity test on it and there is no continutity across the resistor that i took out of the crossovers. My hope is that all is fine with the woofers and that the resistors acted as fuses that popped when the sound was cranked as to not hurt the tweeter. Those are some high hopes but i guess i will find out when my parts get here.

If anyone could tell me what position the mutimeter should be on im interested to test my ohms on the woofer

[Guest scale21]

UPDATE

I figured out my MultiMeter

I set it to the 200 setting and this should be the correct one as i am not measuring Kiliohms or MiliOhms.....(i think)

Both woofers read a solid 4.5 and each tweet was a 2.5...so that being said...i dont think they are cooked.

[Doug G.]

Yes, correct setting on the meter and it sounds like all the readings are good.

So far so good!

Thanks for adding the battery test, Vern. I forgot to mention it.

Doug

[Guest scale21]

im hoping life will be good. I just ordered Dayton Caps (one at 6.8 and one at 6.2). I read somewhere that is better to get caps that are close in numbers rather than going with a 12 and a 1 for instance.

Anyway....i ordered new foam as well. I also have new Dayton resistors comming.

I skipped on ordering new Inductors althought that plus different binding posted would have been a full Xover swap. I wasnt sure which Inductors to go with. I read somewhere that the Large Advents are around .33 for Inductors but where i stumbled was whether or not to go with the standard once or the fancy foil ones (condsidered audiophile quality). I left well enough alone. I also didnt want to change the binding posts because i wanted to stay with that original advent appearance from the outside.

I will be working on refinishing the cabinets in the meantime to try and bring them back to life. THey are pretty darn rough but then again......looks dont really matter. Its the sound i am after. I plan on stacking these with another pair of Large Advents. I have heard great things about this setup.

Ill probaby recap the other set as well but i thought i would see what i could get done on the roughest set first ...you know.... see what my skills are like.

[Guest olddude55]

OK, I'm assuming you have New (large) Advents based on your reference to 13 uF capacitors.

It is very unlikely that it is the switches that are bad. These are fairly heavy duty types and don't often fail.

If the speaker doesn't work in normal or decrease, it almost has to be R2, the 1 ohm series resistor that is open.

This resistor is not in circuit when the switch is in extended.

Doug

I had the same problem, in fact I heard the R2 fail as I was listening.

You're exactly correct. Replacing the resistor will fix the problem, though I ended up replacing all of the resistors (and caps) in both x-overs with new.

[Doug G.]

Hey look! It's olddude55 from AA! OK, I guess it could be somebody else that stole the moniker but I doubt it. Anyway, welcome!

Thanks for waking this thread back up as we kinda forgot to keep track to see if scale21 got his Advents going again.

scale21? Yoohoo! You there?

Doug

[Guest olddude55]

Hey look! It's olddude55 from AA! OK, I guess it could be somebody else that stole the moniker but I doubt it. Anyway, welcome!

Thanks for waking this thread back up as we kinda forgot to keep track to see if scale21 got his Advents going again.

scale21? Yoohoo! You there?

Doug

Yeah, it's me. I've been an Advent fan ever since I first heard my buddy's Advent/2s back in 1974 or 75.

I still use stacked Advents in my main system. I love 'em.

You can put the subwoofer back on the truck boyz--he's using stacked Advents!

[Doug G.]

Yeah, it's me. I've been an Advent fan ever since I first heard my buddy's Advent/2s back in 1974 or 75.

I still use stacked Advents in my main system. I love 'em.

You can put the subwoofer back on the truck boyz--he's using stacked Advents!

Yeah, same here. I have a quad set-up of four sets of stacked originals. It can get pretty intense with dynamics!

I actually ended up liking them better with the top sets upright instead of inverted like is usually done.

I have suggested that Zilch measure a set this way in Audio Karma but I haven't been back there yet to see if he has yet.

He has otherwise shown the "hole" that develops at about 5kHz with the traditional stacked arrangement.

He is, of course, a big anti-stacking proponent and, on the surface, his comb filtering arguments make sense but I think he ignores room effects too much.

Zilch, if you're a member here, no offense intended.

Doug

[Guest olddude55]

Yeah, same here. I have a quad set-up of four sets of stacked originals. It can get pretty intense with dynamics!

I actually ended up liking them better with the top sets upright instead of inverted like is usually done.

I have suggested that Zilch measure a set this way in Audio Karma but I haven't been back there yet to see if he has yet.

He has otherwise shown the "hole" that develops at about 5kHz with the traditional stacked arrangement.

He is, of course, a big anti-stacking proponent and, on the surface, his comb filtering arguments make sense but I think he ignores room effects too much.

Zilch, if you're a member here, no offense intended.

Doug

Mine are stacked in the usual fashion.

I had them teamed with a Dynaco Stereo 70 for the last few years and they sounded kind of blah. I was ready to replace 'em when a couple of guys on the Speaker Asylum told me I had a mismatch between the amp and the speakers.

So, I got good price on a NAD 352 and man, it's a world of difference. Forget about subwoofers.

Anyway, if the OP is having the problems described, the ought to just replace all of the xover resistors with Mills or something. The hardest part of the job is chiseling the old resistors off of the xover board.

[bikenut]

Hi Guys:

I'm in the same boat, a tweeter on my New Advents which I just got only works in the extended switch setting.

I've read the chat here and am gland it's fixable.

Trouble is I don't know what I'm looking at on the crossover and what to replace.

But I'm willing to give it a shot, I can use a soldering iron.

I was hoping that someone could use MS paint or some program and put a pointer on what I need to replace.

I have the picture but haven't sorted out how to imbed a picture in my post.

Or, if you could point me to another listing or site that shows this, great.

I just refoamed the woofers and they sound great on an old Sansui amp I have them on right now.

Based on the nice sounds from these, I'm interested in this stacking of 4 speakers and will be on the hunt for another set.

Here's a pic of the crossover I found from another site, audiokarma.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Bill

Stouffville, Ontario

[Doug G.]

Welcome Bill,

It looks like you got the picture from Pete's wonderful page on the Advent crossovers.

The two long parts that are mounted parallel to each other are the two resistors and these are what will cause different symptoms with the tweeter depending on which is defective (open).

On the schematic, they are represented by the kind of sawtooth symbols and are labeled 1.0 ohms and 1.5 ohms.

If you can imagine that one or both of these being open is the same as cutting the wire, you can see that signal will not get to the tweeter with the switch set to certain positions and different combinations of the resistors being open.

The thing to do is somehow confirm that these resistors measure what they are supposed to. The easiest is to use an ohmeter if you have one.

Doug

[Doug G.]

Oops, just noticed that you said you got the photo from AK but it really originated from Pete's page Here:

http://baselaudiolabs.googlepages.com/ADVENT_LA_XO.html

Scroll down to the New Large Advent picture and schematic to see what you have.

Doug

[bikenut]

Thanks Doug, I have a meter and I'll check the reading.

If bad, as suspected, I just run off to an electronics store and buy replacements, correct?

Cut the old ones off and solder in the new ones and I'm good to go?

I've been reading the other posts about replacing the caps as well to really bring the sound back to what it should be.

Would you recommend that at this time as well?

Bill

[Doug G.]

Yup, what you say is correct. Just cut out the old and solder in the new. Be sure the replacements are at least the same wattage rating (10 watts). Bigger is fine.

As far as the capacitors, I haven't replaced any of them in my 8 original Advents and I think they sound just fine. This is entirely up to you though and there is only one in the New Advents. Wouldn't be a big deal to replace. I would just use a modern equivalent if you want the original sound. Get a 13uF cap. if you can find one or any combination in parallel to add up to 13.

Doug

[bikenut]

Doug, I think I have the info I need now.

Thanks a lot.