Power fir the masses......

[frankmarsi]

2-17-08

I know, I know all about this ‘high-frequency -thing’ since I’m an AR listener since way back in ’72. However I was cruising the hi-fi shops in NYC as early as the late sixties because I wanted to be one of the ‘cognoscenti’ in terms of hi-fi as hi-fi was making a major thrust back then to be the ‘in-thing’ for the populous, I was right in line with it all. By 1974 I forcibly realized that my only choice in dealing with my constantly burning out AR tweets was to buy a pair of ‘Micro-Static’s. Now I listen to this site and hook-up AB-Tech tweets to slightly alter, but still preserve the ‘AR-sound’. Thanks to RoyC and all the other AR peeps, -you know who you are, we’ve spoken before!

My question does not concern what AR thought, but beyond that as my own personal love is for them, regardless how I may alter their high-end sound because I now use AB-Tech tweeters to replace all of my of my original hi-end drivers, they’re all but gone now.

My question here concerns actual driving amplifiers. Yes I know most would disagree with my love of vintage Phase Linear amps, but there are not many lower priced alternatives is terms of gutsy bass and high head-room amps around, not to mention the cost of high-power. Besides, old speakers sound ‘grand’ with old amps, be it tube or SS.

So more directly I’m actively in the market concerned for more power for my LST’s.

I presently use 4 LST’s and two PL400’s, that’s a fact jack. These amps are more than I can state here in terms of ‘almost’ tube like sound, and remarkably so for SS, but I feel they sometimes ‘run-out-of-steam’ to really ‘propel’ the LST’s to their full potential.

PL 700B’s are presently selling for a somewhat fair price on eBay, so I’ve been thinking is there anyone out-there who runs their big AR’s on ‘very-high SS power as I’m feeling I should really be doing these days. I really don’t want to stress-out my LST’s too much , but nonetheless I’m looking for a ‘larger sound’ from my LST’s and I’ve read that they can do it in any event utilizing loads of brute watts, more than I presently have.

My PL400’s hand out a very fair share of power themselves, believe me. Personally I must consider burn out my mids, and woofers during playback of the likes of ‘Wagner’, ‘Stravinsky’, ‘Stokowski’ and much old and new hard rock, etc. etc. But to consider such a powerful amp as the PL700B would mean so much of a bigger sound even at low volumes, I can’t help but want that, just like I have always had with the PL400’s and always looking beyond to bigger things.

Any insights or experienced thoughts about high wattage of more than 350 watts per-channel into AR-LST’s?

An old friend of his own, Frank Marsi

[dynaco_dan]

2-17-08

I know, I know all about this ‘high-frequency -thing’ since I’m an AR listener since way back in ’72. However I was cruising the hi-fi shops in NYC as early as the late sixties because I wanted to be one of the ‘cognoscenti’ in terms of hi-fi as hi-fi was making a major thrust back then to be the ‘in-thing’ for the populous, I was right in line with it all. By 1974 I forcibly realized that my only choice in dealing with my constantly burning out AR tweets was to buy a pair of ‘Micro-Static’s. Now I listen to this site and hook-up AB-Tech tweets to slightly alter, but still preserve the ‘AR-sound’. Thanks to RoyC and all the other AR peeps, -you know who you are, we’ve spoken before!

My question does not concern what AR thought, but beyond that as my own personal love is for them, regardless how I may alter their high-end sound because I now use AB-Tech tweeters to replace all of my of my original hi-end drivers, they’re all but gone now.

My question here concerns actual driving amplifiers. Yes I know most would disagree with my love of vintage Phase Linear amps, but there are not many lower priced alternatives is terms of gutsy bass and high head-room amps around, not to mention the cost of high-power. Besides, old speakers sound ‘grand’ with old amps, be it tube or SS.

So more directly I’m actively in the market concerned for more power for my LST’s.

I presently use 4 LST’s and two PL400’s, that’s a fact jack. These amps are more than I can state here in terms of ‘almost’ tube like sound, and remarkably so for SS, but I feel they sometimes ‘run-out-of-steam’ to really ‘propel’ the LST’s to their full potential.

PL 700B’s are presently selling for a somewhat fair price on eBay, so I’ve been thinking is there anyone out-there who runs their big AR’s on ‘very-high SS power as I’m feeling I should really be doing these days. I really don’t want to stress-out my LST’s too much , but nonetheless I’m looking for a ‘larger sound’ from my LST’s and I’ve read that they can do it in any event utilizing loads of brute watts, more than I presently have.

My PL400’s hand out a very fair share of power themselves, believe me. Personally I must consider burn out my mids, and woofers during playback of the likes of ‘Wagner’, ‘Stravinsky’, ‘Stokowski’ and much old and new hard rock, etc. etc. But to consider such a powerful amp as the PL700B would mean so much of a bigger sound even at low volumes, I can’t help but want that, just like I have always had with the PL400’s and always looking beyond to bigger things.

Any insights or experienced thoughts about high wattage of more than 350 watts per-channel into AR-LST’s?

An old friend of his own, Frank Marsi

Hi Frank;

I've read many times about your LST system, but, how are the LST's wired?

Do you have a pre-amp with twin outputs to your two PL-400's?

If you are using a single PL-400's to feed a pair of LST's, what is your per channel 20 - 20,000 Hz power output at 4 - 8 - 16 and greater ohms?

A single PL-700B is not too much power for a pair of LST's, it allows plenty of reserve.

I am only thinking of us sitting in the, "sweet zone", with the volume level at a comfortable level, not screaming.

A friend has a pair of LST's and a PL-700B and is happy, but, he has not compared with other than an AR amplifier.

To you and other readers I will be adding to the, "NEWS", forum, the topic, "Sound Advice", soon.

It is going to be an eye opener for most, if not all, what has happened to me and what I have learned.

I think we all need to start talking about hifi listening levels and inexpensive dB output meters for our listening rooms.

[Guest pbda]

Frank, I'm using a Marantz 2600 for my (single) pair of LSTs. 400+ wpc into a 4 ohm load. I agree with Vern that these speakers reward an ample supply of power, even at low listening levels. In addition to rock music, I am very fond of orchestral music, and this setup does very well indeed with Mahler, Beethoven, Saint-Saens, etc.

I've always thought highly of Phase Linear power amps, though my opinion is not universally shared. I certainly don't think that the 700B will "overpower" a pair of LSTs.

[frankmarsi]

2-20-08

I gotta tell-ya. When those Marantz beasts came out in ’78, I couldn’t believe my eyes, the power, the FM scope and controls all in one unit, wow. I must say with ease that I saw these at the time and they had to be the ultimate receiver ever made. Gosh it even has a fan to boot. When that happened I was already cooling my single PL400 with two whisper-fans that same year in my first NYC fashion-photo studio.

Yeah, classical music is making a return to me as there’s not much happening in the rock or pop world. Although if one searches there’s still new pop and rock being made, (the new ‘Eagles’ (Don Henley ‘s words in particular) is a good starting and soothing place, and different than most nostalgically speaking, but I usually note some familiar riff or line of music and always the same nostalgically hurting words always appear in general types of new rock music. My ‘very-decent’ classical music collection is impressive in any listening session with my vinyl especially, however I’ve been going to J&R music here in NYC just to update myself in Naxos classical CD’s., they’re one of only companies recording classical music, strange isn’t that nothing is going on in music-what’s that about? I really seek vinyl though, but there are only about 100 LP’s left and they are believe it or not some rap music in addition to old jazz re-releases in all that’s left.

I really should start buying LP’s on the net, but I’m lazy about those things too, the cost is nuts.

Yeah, I lost an auction for a PLDual500 and I still don’t know where to go. My PL400’s are really sweet sounding, but my own personal historically imposed character of man’s favorite quest for improvement and progression still beckon me in an animalistic sort of way for more wattage just like it did in 1972 when I bought my Dynaco ST-120 to replace my Dyna St-35 tube, baby!- haven’t things changed? I really need my AR’s to sooth my savage beastly tendencies in any event, I felt more and dangerous power would do it. Thinking about possible consequences also means more burnt drivers and the like though.

Things are tuff here in NYC for vinyl, although I think there are one or two places still left in the village.

I’ll be in touch with CSP when I finally have made some progress with my system.

Time is very short for me and I still listen to my rubber cemented woofers and Micro’s until I get off my middle age reluctant ass and install my already prepared tweets and re-surrounded woofers.

Stay in touch.

frankmarsi@verizon.net

FM

[Mexicomike]

Interestingly, while the sale of CDs is dropping, the sales of vinyl is rising. I did some vinyl/CD comparisons the past couple of days, using my records from as far back as the early 60's through the mid 80's, a/b-ing them with the Cds of the same album. In almost every case, I found that the CDs were inferior to the LPs. In some cases is was so painfully obvious that it would cause one to wonder why CDs ever came to be - at least from a sound quality point of view. Even my wife, who could care less about such things, noted the superior sound from many of the LPs. "Sounds kindof shrill" was her common reaction to the Cds compared to the records. In most cases, the records had a tighter and more realistic "bottom," and a better definition of the various instruments. Some female vocals were painful on CD but sounded very good on the records. Selections included pop and classical.

System was AR 3a, AR amp, AR TT, Ortofon Cartridge, McIntosh 7009 CD player. I was prepared initially to switch to better amplification but the difference was apparent without bothering.

Makes me wonder why I raced out to buy one of the first CD players available in Anchorage, AK in 1983...

[Mexicomike]

One thing I failed to mention in my previous post that I found interesting...

Playing a CD and record for an extended period in one case resulted in the AR amp running much warmer at the same volume level playing the record as opposed to the CD, indicating that the amp needed to produce more power to achieve equal (fairly loud) levels.

The only reason I could come up with was that in this case the record had noticeably better (deeper) bass but it could also be subsonic stuff caused by record warp or some other artifact. If it was due to warp or whatever it explains why many preamps used to include a subsonic filter. The difference in the amps heat sink temp after 10 minutes on each source (to the touch - no real science here!) was quite noticeable.