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AR 9 Companion


dahrich

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Hello:

I listen only to stereo with my AR 9's but wonder what would happen if I added a center speaker.

So the question is: Which AR speaker, if any, would be a good match to my AR 9's forming a R/C/L system?

This may not work out but I wanted to experiment a little.

Thanks in advance,

Richard

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Guest PhoenixRising

Hello. I've used a set of AR9's for stereo music listening and as front R&L channels for home theater for several years now. When I discovered this forum, I asked the exact same question. The center channel speaker that I currently have just doesn't match the AR9's tonally.

The responses I got were all about the same. I was told to look for any of the speakers from the AR9 line, which include the AR9, AR90, AR91, AR92?, AR98, etc... The library on this site shows more info on these models. All of these speakers use the same tweeter and upper mid as our AR9's, and some even have the 8" lower mid driver, too. So any of these speakers should be a perfect tonal match to the AR9. They aren't magnetically shielded, though, so placing them near a tv may cause some magnetic interference, depending on your video setup.

As an alternative, a couple of guys on here have constructed custom center channel speakers using the drivers from the AR9 series, and fabricating a custom enclosure or modifying another center speaker's enclosure. I'm working on the 2nd of these options right now. I have 2 tweeters, 2 upper mid's, and a replacement 8" mid from the AR9 series that I'm planning to use in a custom center channel speaker. I'm modifying another speaker's enclosure to accomodate all 5 drivers, and a local engineer friend is going to design and build the crossover to be similar to the AR9's upper range crossover (hopefully!).

I'll definitely post info and pics once it comes together. Good luck to you in finding a suitable center.

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Guest PhoenixRising
Hello PhoenixRising:

Thanks for your input.

I might be able to get an AR 94 to try.

Do you think this might be a good match?

Also, would you tell me what you are using as a center speaker.

Richard

I'm a relative beginner, and there are guys on this forum that know exponentially more than I ever will about AR speakers, so keep that in mind when reading any advice from me! :)

To qualify my original post, I'm not sure that ALL of the various speakers in the "9" series use the exact same upper drivers. Definitely the AR90 and AR91, but the rest I'm not sure about. They should be pretty close, though.

Right now, I'm using a BIC America center speaker. It's not a high quality speaker, and I don't really care for it at all, but it's what I have at the moment.

The previous owner of my AR9's swapped out the tweeters and the 8" mids for aftermarket replacements, so I've been on the hunt for original drivers for some time. I got lucky and found a set of beat up AR91's on Craigslist last month, so I now have some extra original drivers. I'll probably use them to return my AR9's back to their original form instead of building a center out of them.

Ultimately, I will find more original tweeters and upper mids and build a custom center channel using them. If I had more space, I'd just use one of the 91's and call it a day. I think 9's up front with a custom center, and 90's for the rears would be nice, no? :) I just need a ton more space to make that happen!

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The only comment I have is perhaps based upon ignorance or a misunderstanding of your intentions. Why bother with a center channel? Driven properly, these speakers do a remarkable job of imaging without a center channel.

Hi:

The reason I was curious about a center speaker is because, sometimes, when listening in stereo I definitely get sound primarily from the left and right speakers. So, I thought adding a center speaker might create a fuller experience.

However, this is not always the case and I think it's due to the placement of the microphones when the recording was made.

I agree that these speakers are remarkable and I wouldn't trade them for anything.

Richard

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Hi:

The reason I was curious about a center speaker is because, sometimes, when listening in stereo I definitely get sound primarily from the left and right speakers. So, I thought adding a center speaker might create a fuller experience.

However, this is not always the case and I think it's due to the placement of the microphones when the recording was made.

I agree that these speakers are remarkable and I wouldn't trade them for anything.

Richard

Ah, Another Richard!

Things to check in your speakers. If they still have the original capacitors, consider replacing them. make absolutely sure each driver is wired properly. Stereo imaging will be affected by out of phase or wrong driver(s).

I recently replaced my +25 year old preamp with a Rogue 99 magnum and was absolutely stunned by the improvement in stereo imaging. I was pretty much hearing the same thing you are now with my old preamp.

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Ah, Another Richard!

Things to check in your speakers. If they still have the original capacitors, consider replacing them. make absolutely sure each driver is wired properly. Stereo imaging will be affected by out of phase or wrong driver(s).

I recently replaced my +25 year old preamp with a Rogue 99 magnum and was absolutely stunned by the improvement in stereo imaging. I was pretty much hearing the same thing you are now with my old preamp.

Hi Richard:

Wiring is good. I have gotten different opinions about changing Caps. Some say the sound quality will suffer, others it's better.

I'm driving my AR 9's with a 170 w/ch Sony STR-DA7100ES A/V receiver connected via an iLink cable to a Sony DVP-NS9100ES SACD CD Player. I used to have Separates until I came across the Sony combination. Once they were installed I sold the Separates. Imaging is usually very good but once in a while it is not and I think it depends on the quality of the CD. BTW, I usually listen to SACD's because I think their quality is better.

Thanks for your comments.

Regards,

Richard

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Guest PhoenixRising

I don't have space for a dedicated 2 channel setup, so myAR9's are the front R&L in my home theater setup, which I use in 2 channel stereo for music playback.

I only use my center channel for home theater applications, i.e. 5.1 audio tracks from digital cable or dvd's. It's nice to have a center speaker for tv or dvd viewing, given the varied quality and volume level of the dialogue from one source to the next. I like having independant volume and eq control over the dialogue track relative to the rest of the audio.

If I used the AR9's for music only, I would certainly not need a center channel, as they sound wonderful to my ears! :)

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I don't have space for a dedicated 2 channel setup, so myAR9's are the front R&L in my home theater setup, which I use in 2 channel stereo for music playback.

I only use my center channel for home theater applications, i.e. 5.1 audio tracks from digital cable or dvd's. It's nice to have a center speaker for tv or dvd viewing, given the varied quality and volume level of the dialogue from one source to the next. I like having independant volume and eq control over the dialogue track relative to the rest of the audio.

If I used the AR9's for music only, I would certainly not need a center channel, as they sound wonderful to my ears! :)

Hello:

Thanks all for your comments.

Should I decide to experiment with a center channel I definitely will post my results and thoughts.

Richard

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Hi Richard:

Wiring is good. I have gotten different opinions about changing Caps. Some say the sound quality will suffer, others it's better.

I'm driving my AR 9's with a 170 w/ch Sony STR-DA7100ES A/V receiver connected via an iLink cable to a Sony DVP-NS9100ES SACD CD Player. I used to have Separates until I came across the Sony combination. Once they were installed I sold the Separates. Imaging is usually very good but once in a while it is not and I think it depends on the quality of the CD. BTW, I usually listen to SACD's because I think their quality is better.

Thanks for your comments.

Regards,

Richard

Several thoughts to mull over.

The tweeter and upper midrange drivers provide most of the imaging in the AR9/90 speakers, and when the caps in the crossover go south, these drivers produce far less of the sound spectrum than normal. Hence, the sound stage slowly deteriorates over time. A simple and cheap method to determine how much these drivers are currently producing is to put a piece of paper or cardboard over the driver notice how much effect, if any this has. make sure to play something such as Sarah Brightman as her voice will be primarily out of the upper mid and maybe the tweeter. As an owner of a pair of AR90s, I can tell you from frist hand experience these drivers are not producing what they should be if the original caps are still in use.

Next and last thought.

According to most AR9 owners who frequent this site, the AR9 doesn't shine unless your driving them with nothing less than a 300 watt amp. I've no personal experience with the 9 but I drive my 90s with an amp conservatively rated at 315 watts per channel into 4 ohms and heavy bass can cause the lights in the room to flicker.

If you recap the crossovers, the voicing will change from its current state back to a close approximation of what the speakers were new. I refuse to say "exactly the same" since that can't be proven and the drivers are now 20+ years old. What type of cap you use is your choice; Use electrolytics if your worried about modern caps altering the voicing. They are cheap and weren't my choice.

regards,

Richard

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Several thoughts to mull over.

The tweeter and upper midrange drivers provide most of the imaging in the AR9/90 speakers, and when the caps in the crossover go south, these drivers produce far less of the sound spectrum than normal. Hence, the sound stage slowly deteriorates over time. A simple and cheap method to determine how much these drivers are currently producing is to put a piece of paper or cardboard over the driver notice how much effect, if any this has. make sure to play something such as Sarah Brightman as her voice will be primarily out of the upper mid and maybe the tweeter. As an owner of a pair of AR90s, I can tell you from frist hand experience these drivers are not producing what they should be if the original caps are still in use.

Next and last thought.

According to most AR9 owners who frequent this site, the AR9 doesn't shine unless your driving them with nothing less than a 300 watt amp. I've no personal experience with the 9 but I drive my 90s with an amp conservatively rated at 315 watts per channel into 4 ohms and heavy bass can cause the lights in the room to flicker.

If you recap the crossovers, the voicing will change from its current state back to a close approximation of what the speakers were new. I refuse to say "exactly the same" since that can't be proven and the drivers are now 20+ years old. What type of cap you use is your choice; Use electrolytics if your worried about modern caps altering the voicing. They are cheap and weren't my choice.

regards,

Richard

Hi Richard:

I'm getting ready to go on vacation but your comments are interesting.

If I put a sheet of paper in front of a driver do I let it hang down loosely or should I hold it somewhat tightly in front?

What affect should I expect to see? Should it "blow" away from the driver?Regards,

Richard

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Hi Richard:

I'm getting ready to go on vacation but your comments are interesting.

If I put a sheet of paper in front of a driver do I let it hang down loosely or should I hold it somewhat tightly in front?

What affect should I expect to see? Should it "blow" away from the driver?Regards,

Richard

You shouldn't "see" anything. What you should notics is a disctinct change on the sound of the speakers because your blocking off the high frequencies coming out of the drivers. Since your speakers have the original caps which are very well "aged", you likely won't hear anything change because they are producing nothing, or almost nothing.

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