AR4ax questions

[Guest CHRISFL1]

I recently acquired a pair of AR4ax speakers in working order except for a few dead spots in the HF level control, which I understand is normal with age. There are lots of posts on the AR4 and AR 4x, but almost nothing on the AR4ax. I understand that the major differance was the tweeter; thankfully, the woofer has the cloth surround, not foam. Can anyone give me their thoughts on how much of an improvement the newer tweeter made?

[dynaco_dan]

I recently acquired a pair of AR4ax speakers in working order except for a few dead spots in the HF level control, which I understand is normal with age. There are lots of posts on the AR4 and AR 4x, but almost nothing on the AR4ax. I understand that the major differance was the tweeter; thankfully, the woofer has the cloth surround, not foam. Can anyone give me their thoughts on how much of an improvement the newer tweeter made?

Hi there;

The surround should be foam, not cloth.

You mean AR-4XA, do you not?

[Guest CHRISFL1]

You are correct, they are AR-4xa's. The serial numbers are under 700; could AR have used up any remaining inventory of cloth roll woofers before switching to the foam surrounds later in production?

[dynaco_dan]

You are correct, they are AR-4xa's. The serial numbers are under 700; could AR have used up any remaining inventory of cloth roll woofers before switching to the foam surrounds later in production?

Hi again;

There is someone here that is collecting records of AR-4X's, I believe.

The cloth surrounds with Alnico magnets was used, in the early AR-4X's, up to what serial number or year I do not know, then the ceramic magnet with the foam surround was used.

Anything is possible, that there was some older woofers laying around at the factory might be one option.

This is not too likely, there was lot's of AR-4X's produced before the AR-4XA's.

The more likely is that the woofer has been replaced with the earlier woofers by their owner.

[Guest CHRISFL1]

I recently acquired a pair of AR4xa speakers in working order except for a few dead spots in the HF level control, which I understand is normal with age. There are lots of posts on the AR4 and AR 4x, but almost nothing on the AR4xa. I understand that the major differance was the tweeter; thankfully, the woofer has the cloth surround, not foam. Can anyone give me their thoughts on how much of an improvement the newer tweeter made?

I appreciate the help given to me on the woofer. Does anyone own both the AR-4x and AR-4xa and might be able to advise me of the differance in sound? I understand that the woofer is essentially the same, but the tweeter is a differant design - any help on this?

[Guest mikeg]

Hi there;

The surround should be foam, not cloth.

You mean AR-4XA, do you not?

This is were I would like to jump in, I have a pair of 4x's and just acquired 4xa's.

The only difference seems to be the tweeter, the xa's have a small domed driver.

The 4xa's have a switch instead of a rheostat. Both sets of speakers are completely

original ( no tampering ).

Is the 4x/4xa difference the tweeters? Both speakers have cloth surrounds on the woofers with

a mesh screen instead of solid dust cover. The magnets also have screen inserts.

Are they considered acoustic suspension speakers (the woofers)?

The serial #.... 4x's, FX267657/FX274205 4xa's, 13475/13476

[Guest CHRISFL1]

This is were I would like to jump in, I have a pair of 4x's and just acquired 4xa's.

The only difference seems to be the tweeter, the xa's have a small domed driver.

The 4xa's have a switch instead of a rheostat. Both sets of speakers are completely

original ( no tampering ).

Is the 4x/4xa difference the tweeters? Both speakers have cloth surrounds on the woofers with

a mesh screen instead of solid dust cover. The magnets also have screen inserts.

Are they considered acoustic suspension speakers (the woofers)?

The serial #.... 4x's, FX267657/FX274205 4xa's, 13475/13476

Mikeg,

Thanks for your input. The serial numbers of mine are under 700 and use the variable pot on the back, not a three position switch. Other than than, they appear the same as yours, including the cloth surround (not foam) on the woofer.

These are acoustic suspension speakers, but being smaller than the AR 2-3 models, do not go as low in the bass. Have you set up the 4x and 4xa speakers side by side an listened to them in that manner? If so, I would appreciate your thoughts on the differance the "a" tweeter makes.

[Guest mikeg]

Mikeg,

Thanks for your input. The serial numbers of mine are under 700 and use the variable pot on the back, not a three position switch. Other than than, they appear the same as yours, including the cloth surround (not foam) on the woofer.

These are acoustic suspension speakers, but being smaller than the AR 2-3 models, do not go as low in the bass. Have you set up the 4x and 4xa speakers side by side an listened to them in that manner? If so, I would appreciate your thoughts on the differance the "a" tweeter makes.

Well as far as my untrained ears can tell, the 4xa have a further high range.

The hi's seem much clearer, it's really apparent when both speakers are set

to max increased setting level.

My 4x's are almost new, the 4xa's have a bit of use, so it should be a fair test.

I need to put new surrounds on the 4xa's though, one 8" is touching the coil at

higher volume and the other has the typical problem, that the fabric is flimsy and

probably has a lot of pin holes in it. I wish someone made fabric composite surrounds,

having to put the foam ones on su... stink.

The new foam surrounds in my alnico 2ax's really improved them though. So maybe

it's worth having to replace them every 15-20 years.

It's too bad the 8" speakers aren't alnico. I have both the alnico 2ax and the

"other" 2ax. The alnico's beat them hands down.

[JKent]

I need to put new surrounds on the 4xa's though, one 8" is touching the coil at

higher volume and the other has the typical problem, that the fabric is flimsy and

probably has a lot of pin holes in it. I wish someone made fabric composite surrounds,

having to put the foam ones on su... stink.

The new foam surrounds in my alnico 2ax's really improved them though. So maybe

it's worth having to replace them every 15-20 years.

Before you go removing cloth surrounds, you may want to think about coating the cloth with Permatex 80062 High Tack Gasket Sealant. RoyC discovered this product and has reported on it in these pages. Do a search and see what you think.

Kent

[Guest mikeg]

Before you go removing cloth surrounds, you may want to think about coating the cloth with Permatex 80062 High Tack Gasket Sealant. RoyC discovered this product and has reported on it in these pages. Do a search and see what you think.

Kent

Kent,

Thanks for the tip. I would like to try that.

I know there other forums on refoaming speakers.

But in the case of the AR speakers, what are the technical benefits

to retaining the fabric ( when condition allows ).

When a speaker has collector value, due to model/type or mint,

boxed, etc the fabric should be retained.

It would seem with the case of AR/KLH speakers the air suspension

is critical for the woofer operation.

Brush on coatings are not as effective, as if the fabric was vulcanized

to a elastomer (rubber) coating and prone to leak over time.

The stability of the movement seems to be a question also, though

due to age and not design. While allowing the speakers to move

freely in and out, the old AR fabric seems prone to other movements

that allow coils to scrape the magnets.

Anyone's thoughts?

[RoyC]

The stability of the movement seems to be a question also, though

due to age and not design. While allowing the speakers to move

freely in and out, the old AR fabric seems prone to other movements

that allow coils to scrape the magnets.

Anyone's thoughts?

The woofer surround is carefully matched to the other half of the suspension (the spider) which is also made of treated cloth. By switching to a foam surround you will change the original compliance and the performance of the woofer, and once you remove the cloth surround there is no turning back. The AR cloth surround woofers are generally highly thought of by many of our fellow forum members. Some have found the foam surround woofers to be inferior in performance to their cloth surround counterparts. Further, foam begins to degrade from the start.

If a cloth surround has become porous, simply restoring the treatment is usually all that is needed to bring it back to life. The Permatex treatment is worth trying before taking the drastic measure of replacing the surround. It seems to work as well as the original cloth treatment, and will not adversely affect response.

It is possible that stiffening the suspension by switching to a foam surround will increase power handling, but it could compromise quality at lower levels.

Roy

[Guest jgmacv]

Hi all. I've just purchased a pair of AR-4ax (don't have them yet). Serial numbers are 17158 & 17364. Not sure if these will have cloth or foam surrounds (hoping for cloth). Is there a database or manufacturing info that can tell me when mine were manufactured? Thanks all!

John