"Classic" Snells

[Pete B]

>

>What's missing here is for Snell discussion boards to share

>the speaker replacement models for Snells. That gives the

>owner a choice of going for the Snell "matched"

>pairs at apremium price, or the same speaker set for a lesser

>value "unmatched."

>

>Older Snell models, like the J's and K's. the C's, the Type

>B's and others all have Vifa components and at that time Snell

>left the Vifa sticker with speaker number on them. Wonderful

>gift.

>

>Does anyone know the replacement speaker for the Snell A

>midranges? As I have mentioned, repair, don't replace the

>woofers. But the mids are both oddly shaped, oddly old and

>stiff feeling and I would love to hear how well they sound

>with the reocmmended current Snell mid replacements. I am sure

>these are Vifas. The tweeters are Vifas.

>

>Anyone do the replacement and can share the model number?

>

>Finally, I am going to not only make a new Type A clone of my

>own but make it with regards to Peter's original A's. I

>believe it can be done and that the use of modern cabling,

>caps and coils will make a difference. Same values, same

>connections. I also think that the bass unit can remain about

>the same, but that the upper module can be re-worked to a more

>acceptable modern look. This is worth checking and is always a

>thrill to do. So imagine the bass unit on its side. Then the

>upper unit of simlar shape keeping the same midrange box size

>(it is sealed in a small wood box in the upper part) and the

>same relationship witht he tweeter. Just a slightly smaller

>but still curved wood baffle.

>

>I believe, and I am not an audio engineer if that's a premise

>that will help your deny or entertain my read on this, Peter

>had this right and if he had the ingredients we have today

>(like Scan Speak components and OFC) this speaker would sound

>even better.

>

>I can see a Snell A clone that has a top portion that remains

>true to the original but used fine veneers and exposes the top

>speakers as a thing of beauty.

>

>I am keeping two sets unchanged. But my third is going to be

>my map for a Type A clone.

>

>Anything can be built. Especially if you have enough love for

>the product that you are willing to do the work to figure it

>all out.I have difficulty believing the A's couldn't be a kit

>by a major company.

>

>A Snell fan.

Hi,

I don't follow Snells much, but I do have a copy of a review of the Type B from Audio 1992 in my files. I remember reading this review, and noticing the very common D25AG tweeter from Vifa in the pictures. Snell didn't even use a custom face plate like most others, looks like the stock version. Good move keeps cost down and allows owners to use stock replacements. This was probably THE most popular tweeter of all time, used often with a custom face plate by PSB, Vandersteen, Paradigm and many, many others.

I remember looking at the mids and they also looked like a 5-1/4" Vifa P13 type. This and the P17, P21 were also very common drivers, but I've found that they're often custom variations on the stock unit.

I don't know the Snell Type A but if you tell us about the mid I'll try to help, is it 5-1/4", poly or paper cone? Is the voice coil 1", what is the DCR, what are the magnet dimensions, does it have a cast frame? There are short and long throw versions of the p13 so you might want to watch out for that. Word out is that the stock classic Vifa units are going out of production.

Some claim that it's impossible to "clone" a commercial speaker but I don't know where they get this idea as a sweeping generalization. Certainly if a system uses an unusual driver it might be the case, but many systems use fairly common drivers. I've done it several times with excellent results and I believe these Snells are a good choice given the use of Vifa drivers. Drivers are often selected by manufacturers and you might want to keep this in mind.

Pete B.

[Guest aroostookme]

Peter, I own a pairof the Snell B's (nice speakers though even more massive than the A's) and every individual speaker is a Vifa and labled with the Vifa labels. All common stock.

I guess we can credit Snell for maybe matching these in pairs that test close. But I have never read that anywhere. And certainly not in the Snell replacements I would think since they do not claim this and they will sell tweeters / mids as singles.

The Snell replacement for the Type A tweeter is a common Vifa tweeter. I do not know the recommended Type A midrange replacement and that'd be the best news to find. The woofers are long throw and I can't imagine ever having to replace them (refoam but not replace).

I am actually amazed how well Snells make the Vifas sing. I have built speakers with upper level Seas and Scan Speak tweeters and mid-woofers and they are really much finer speakers than the Vifa components. I suppose this is why they appear in the most expensive speakers we see today.

BTW, the Snell A mids are the same mids from the Dahlquist 10's. An easy thing to tell once you have seen both. Still, the mid itself is impossible to source with its minimal markings. Belgium is all you can really tell.

That's why I would like to know what Snell now sells and recomends as a mid replacement.

Thanks!

[Pete B]

>Peter, I own a pairof the Snell B's (nice speakers though

>even more massive than the A's) and every individual speaker

>is a Vifa and labled with the Vifa labels. All common stock.

>

>I guess we can credit Snell for maybe matching these in pairs

>that test close. But I have never read that anywhere. And

>certainly not in the Snell replacements I would think since

>they do not claim this and they will sell tweeters / mids as

>singles.

>

>The Snell replacement for the Type A tweeter is a common Vifa

>tweeter. I do not know the recommended Type A midrange

>replacement and that'd be the best news to find. The woofers

>are long throw and I can't imagine ever having to replace them

>(refoam but not replace).

>

>I am actually amazed how well Snells make the Vifas sing. I

>have built speakers with upper level Seas and Scan Speak

>tweeters and mid-woofers and they are really much finer

>speakers than the Vifa components. I suppose this is why they

>appear in the most expensive speakers we see today.

>

>BTW, the Snell A mids are the same mids from the Dahlquist

>10's. An easy thing to tell once you have seen both. Still,

>the mid itself is impossible to source with its minimal

>markings. Belgium is all you can really tell.

>

>That's why I would like to know what Snell now sells and

>recomends as a mid replacement.

>

>Thanks!

Ah, OK you've jarred my memory, I heard vintage Snells recently and I think they were Type A's based on what you say here.

That octagon shaped mid is the Phillips/Norelco AD5060 probably the SQ8 version and not the woofer version. Does it have a plastic rear chamber?

This is a low cost true midrange, short voice coil, and a light shallow cone. It was used in Infinities, DQ10s and many others. I have both the SQ8 version and the woofer version. They do not handle much power.

I also have the specifications from Phillips/Norelco.

I believe that the tweeter is another one of THE most popular tweeters of all time, the Peerless KO10DT (it went under another number for a while) used in Cizek, Polk, some studio monitors and many others. Does this look like the tweeter in question:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/dc/user_files/883.jpg

It was a fully exposed, 1" fabric dome, simple driver no vent or rear chamber. Should be easy to mod a modern driver as a substitute.

The KO10DT was listed within the last few years at PartExpress. I have the specs and one sample from the 70s.

The AD5060 has been out of production for some time, but you might find old stock somewhere. It should be fairly easy to set up a SEAS or Vifa mid as a replacement.

These are all simple drivers, if you select a smooth driver, and match Fs, Qtc, voltage sensitivity, and input impedance then the piston band and crossover response will match.

Would you like to tell us those Vifa part numbers for Type B replacements?

Pete B.

[Pete B]

Here's a picture of the AD5060:

http://www.hupse.nl/radio/speaker_images/AD5060Sq8.jpg

Link: http://www.hupse.nl/radio/speakers/AD5060.htm

Pete B.

[Pete B]

>I believe that the tweeter is another one of THE most popular

>tweeters of all time, the Peerless KO10DT (it went under

>another number for a while) used in Cizek, Polk, some studio

>monitors and many others. Does this look like the tweeter in

>question:

> http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/dc/user_files/883.jpg

>It was a fully exposed, 1" fabric dome, simple driver no

>vent or rear chamber. Should be easy to mod a modern driver

>as a substitute.

>The KO10DT was listed within the last few years at

>PartExpress. I have the specs and one sample from the 70s.

>

>Pete B.

I found a picture of the Type A on the net and that was the system that I saw/heard, however the one in the picture has what looks like an Audax tweeter with a rectangular face plate similar to the Peerless. I'm fairly certain that the one I heard had a Peerless, but either system could have had the tweeter replaced or Snell might have changed at some point in production. I'd be interested to hear confirmation one way or the other from owners.

Pete B.

[Guest aroostookme]

Great news. I think you have nailed the Snell A original midrange.

Here are pictures of mine:

http://members.aol.com/aroostookme/Snellmid1.jpg

The one on the bottom not in a canister is the Snell A mid. The other two in their original canisters are from the Dahlquist 10's and have the same markings as the Snell A mids.

Here is the back of the speaker and size with rulers for reference:

http://members.aol.com/aroostookme/Snellmid2.jpg

I took time to measure the Snell A's midrange box. The A's have the mid mounted and it is in a separate area (boxed off) in the speaker. It is so close to the size of the Dahlquist cannister that one would like to make the assumption that this is the optimized encloser for the speaker -- since both speakers enclose in the same volume area.

So, we have the original Snell A's mids down for my interests.

Great.

[Guest aroostookme]

Interesting response.

The tweeter you show is in a set of KLH CL-4's I have waiting for a woofer recone.

I can not get to my Snell A's easily right now to check my tweeters, but I will.

One of the disappointing things about Snell's tweeter replacements for the A's is that they are not shaped the same way. The Vifa's they send are round and do not disassemble and mount to this face plate.

So the hole in the Snell box requires modification to mount the replacements UNLESS they are a set of older tweeters like these (if they are a match).

Has anyone else looked in to see?

[Guest aroostookme]

Thanks to Kim for the Snell A schematic.

I will scan and post as well.

This is, however, not a true electronic schematic. It is a sort of hybrid between a physical overview of the board for location of caps and inductors, and it has the value of some of the values written in.

It's helpful and a start.

If anyone has a full schematic complete with the separate wiring circuits for the tweeters, mids and woofers -- that would be great.

I plan to rewire one of my sets over the summer. I will map them if no one else has a copy to share with the forum.

[Pete B]

aroostookme writes:

>

>The one on the bottom not in a canister is the Snell A mid.

>The other two in their original canisters are from the

>Dahlquist 10's and have the same markings as the Snell A

>mids.

Your pictures are absolutely of the AD5060SQ version, the midrange or "squaker". The woofer version had a different edge and dust cap, at least the samples that I have.

However, in the Dahlquist DQ-10 the rear chamber was removed (or perhaps they made a special order without the rear chamber) and it was mounted with the rear open with a piece of felt over the back. This has been clear in every picture that I've seen of DQ-10s.

I don't know about the Snells but the pictures that you have there with the rear chamber look exactly like the stock AD5060SQ8. I don't know if a 4 ohm version was ever made and it would be good if you could measure the DC resistance.

Pete B.

[Guest aroostookme]

This is actually the tweeter Snell used in the really rare Reference 1'. They weres produced for a year and shaped much like a wedge with the Type A woofer at the very bottom and firing forward, and this tweeter very near it.

I thought it was an Audax tweeter?

[Carlspeak]

>Thanks. I just emailed my mailing address.

>

>It you are worrying about the electrolytic cap, then replace

>it. It should be clearly marked for value in the schmatic and

>probably is easy to read on the cap itself.

>

>I do not recall the size (usually woofer circuits have a large

>cap like my Proacs have a 7 mf cap).

>

>In other forums on DIY speaker building people are rabid about

>getitng electrolytic caps out of rebuilt classics like these.

>The general rap on them is they leak, change value and so they

>change the well designed pass of low frequencies to some other

>area where the speakers perform less than peak. So, if this is

>correct, you may even hear something more from the bass

>units.

>

>You can get a great replacement from Madisound

>(http://www.madisound.com/) and they even take PayPal. For

>example, a 7mf audio cap can be as low as $3 each for a Solen

>cap (reasonable quality) to a Hovland musicap (about $35

>each).

>

>I'd go somewhere in the middle or with the Solen cap for the

>woofer circuit. Sonic caps are in the middle and my favorites.

>Not for sale at MAdisound though.

>

>Last thing worth mentioning and it is "Snell" like.

>Peter's crossovers (not always later Snell crossovers) that I

>have seen and held all have a cascade approach to caps. I

>haven't seen the woofer cap in the A's (I don't remember it

>anyway), but the other caps in the crossover are all

>cascaded.

>

>The general rule for doing this is easy to work with. The

>total cap value is separated to use at least two caps so the

>value adds to the value needed. Snell often used three.

>

>The rule is that the big cap is one value, the next cap is

>about 1/10th that value and if you use a third then the third

>is about 1/10 of the second. So the third is for speed really

>and acts like a by-pass cap.

I've worked on Snell models A, EII and JII and saw no evidence of cascading. I saw much evidence of bypassing a series or parallel wired bundle of electrolytic caps with a better quality PP film type cap. It's my suspicion Peter tended to stock a limited number of cap uF values like 4's and 8's and so forth and wired them every which way to get the net uF value he wanted. Below is a link to my web site. It includes photos of a Model A crossover as originally produced and then my upgraded version. In a few areas, Peter bundled up to (8) 4uF electrolytic caps and bypassed the bundle with a ceramic PP cap that was in the pF range. That little disk type cap was usually at the bottom of the bundle and provided a relatively flat surface to apply hot melt adhesive to.

http://www.classicloudspeakerservices.com/gallery.html

Remember, it's all about the music

Carl

Carl's Custom Loudspeakers

[Carlspeak]

>The Snell area is in the pipe - hopefully by next weekend

>I'll have it up.

>

>Mark

It's been over 2 months now since your above post regarding adding Snell speakers to the library area of the Classic Speaker Pages. Any light at the end of the tunnel?

Hope your recent hard drive issues have been resolved.

Remember, it's all about the music

Carl

Carl's Custom Loudspeakers

[Guest Dake13]

>It's been over 2 months now since your above post regarding

>adding Snell speakers to the library area of the Classic

>Speaker Pages. Any light at the end of the tunnel?

I have a bunch of photos to add to it, when it's up.

Dake

[Pete B]

I was mistaken, I visited and heard this same pair of A's again today. I looked close and what do you know the tweeter is an Audax not a Peerless. I was fairly certain but I did only see them from a distance the last time. This time I am certain that it looks like an Audax. Like one of the very popular fabric domes, no way to know the exact version without looking inside since there were many variations.

These are the original tweeters as the speakers are with the original owner and he has never changed them.

The midranges had been replaced since the last time with a driver from Snell that looks like a custom unit. The frame looks like a well known Pioneer, mid but not the cone or dustcap, looks like a custom unit. It does not have the hexagonal frame like the original.

The owner is now biamping them with the matching Snell crossover and the system sounds very good especially for a vintage system.

Pete B.

[Guest hikejohn]

Just to fill in some blanks....I got my AIIIs from Peter personally...having helped him in a number of ways...and later I served the family as a Board member...so I am very familar with his speakers...

The woofers...particularly in the AIIIs is not an easy part to find...I think the only folks who can touch them are Snell.

The tweeters and midranges were modified from stock units...

Internally the speakers were wired with Kimber cables...as were the connectors from the top to bottom unit...

the most vulnerable unit historically was the mid range...the problem with the woofers is that over time the foam surrounds broke down with time....depending upon the environment they are in

the drivers were matched unit to unit and within the system...the matching was done in the crossover...remember typical production tolerance of drives is likely to be =/- 3db...and you couldn't use the ones that were on the minus side...they went into other...less critical production models....this is why its important to properly replace units with the correct one...and then pad it down as required...assuming you have the gear and reference standard to do this....

John

[Guest aroostookme]

It's a nice note about the A-3's. But I would encourage you to open your A's and look for the Kimber wire you describe. It not there. Not in the A's in any version I have seen. I own three sets, one of each.

Snell did some amazing things with the A's. But it's pre-audio wire stuff. The crossovers are wired with what appears to be bell wire. The internal speaker cabing is zip cord in the bass unit. The manual assumes you are using lamp cord for speaker wire and it mentions it as well.

No insult meant here, I really enjoyed the post. I know Tom, his brother and have heard Peter's original A's at his home, and I knew his dad as well (who owned A's as well).

My interests are in finding replacements for the mid and tweeters. I'd like to know what Snell is currently selling (for so much money) since the do not make a tweeter or mid. The woofers I am in agreement on. I think Snell would be amazed by the sonic improvements in upper level nids and tweeters at his time. The current company has made some decisions about replacements. I am bettng they are standard mid-line Vifas.

Also, an actual A crossover schematic would be wonderful. Anyone know of either?

[Carlspeak]

>Just to fill in some blanks....I got my AIIIs from Peter

>personally...having helped him in a number of ways...and later

>I served the family as a Board member...so I am very familar

>with his speakers...

>The woofers...particularly in the AIIIs is not an easy part to

>find...I think the only folks who can touch them are Snell.

>The tweeters and midranges were modified from stock units...

>

>Internally the speakers were wired with Kimber cables...as

>were the connectors from the top to bottom unit...

>

>the most vulnerable unit historically was the mid range...the

>problem with the woofers is that over time the foam surrounds

>broke down with time....depending upon the environment they

>are in

>

>the drivers were matched unit to unit and within the

>system...the matching was done in the crossover...remember

>typical production tolerance of drives is likely to be =/-

>3db...and you couldn't use the ones that were on the minus

>side...they went into other...less critical production

>models....this is why its important to properly replace units

>with the correct one...and then pad it down as

>required...assuming you have the gear and reference standard

>to do this....

>

>John

I've worked on a few Snell xovers from the Classic model A to JII's. All have the same sliding, wire wound resistor set up in series with the tweeter. All crossovers were mounted on a board and fastened to the inside wall of the cabinet. This tells me that it was impossible to make the matching adjustment will all the drivers installed in the cabinet (model A excepted) without a great deal of tedious trial and error. This must have been done externally somehow. Perhaps a knowlegable reader could enlighten us all as to how and why this set up existed. I have found it unique among speakers I have worked on over the years. With this out-of-the-box adjustment process, I suspect it was used primarily for SPL matching to overcome unacceptable production variation in the efficiency of individual drivers. It is basically analogous to an l-pad, but in this case, once adjusted, a screw was tightened and thereafter, no changes were possible without removal of the crossover. I personally think Kloss's rheostats allowed more flexibility of adjustment by AR owners in their own environment. Albeit, the rehostats are well known for their propensity to fail due to corrosion.

As John correctly points out above, readers considering replacement of Snell drivers take heed to be sure they don't screw up the balance in SPL's. However, if the balance isn't right, a knowledgeable speaker 'builder' could measure the SPL differences and bypass Peter's original, sliding resistor with an appropriately sized, audio grade one. Or, tinker with Peter's clever little sliding resistor within its range of adjustability.

One final thought regarding SPL matching. Numerous makes and models of speakers from the 'classic' era (AR, Advent, Snell, etc.) all had some means of adjustment to balance the tweeter with the other units. Rheostats, switches, sliding resistors, L-pads were common on many speakers of that era. Remember, dome tweeters were in the early stages of their development and perhaps their SPL's couldn't be controlled very well during manufacture - necessitating the use of series variable resistance.

Remember, it's all about the music

Carl

Carl's Custom Loudspeakers

[Guest johnss]

Yes, I agree; Peter Snell really had something going.

As to who designed what; Peter did the original A, the AII and started the AIII before he passed away. Kevin V. finished up the AIII and later did the AIIIi version. AS much as I like Peter Snell's versions, I think the Kevin V. versions are really nice too. I have a pair of the CVs which are tough to beat at that price point.

IN closing the only thing I'll add is they all respond well with much more power than is claimed to drive them. I had a Threshold S500 driving the C5s, and now have 4 400 watt mono blks driving the AIIIis

JOHn

[Guest bedros]

I have a pair of Snell Type E III speakers. I did replace the base speakers a couple of years ago. They are great speakers. I had them for over 10 years. I am quite happy with them....

HOwever, My wife wnats me to get rid of them......For the right price I may entertain departing with them.

I have paid over $1200 for the pair.

[Guest shinri]

Interesting discussion.

I used to work at one of the most active Snell dealers back in the '80s, and Peter Snell would somesimes visit the store to do some of the final voicing on the new models including the AIII. By the way, the AIII's design was completed by Peter, Kevin V did not get involved until the AIIIi (a definite step backwards IMHO).

Peter would often sit in the listening position with the crossover in his lap, and with long leads going from the crossover to the speaker. This way he could change and fine tune the settings easily and quickly. Once a design was finalized, a reference speaker would be retained at the factory, against which all production speakers would be individually hand tuned to achieve an identical result. In addition to basic driver level and crossover point variations, these adjustments are used to fine tune the phase relationships between the drivers affecting time alignment. Without having the reference system at hand to perform this critical tuning, any attempts at 'upgrading' the speaker beyond simple wire and connector changes is almost certainly doomed to failure. Peter's designs are a classic case of how careful implementation becomes far more important than using expensive designer parts that don't work happily together.

Just to be clear, the original drivers were the Polydax (Audax) HD12X9D25A (4-5 Ohm version) tweeter, a Seas 4 inch midrange driver, and an RCF 12 inch woofer.

I have owned both A2s and AIIIs for over 15 years (I often use a pair of IIIs along with a 2 for the center across the front of my home theater setup), and have discovered a few things. They really do like to be pretty close to the back (front?) wall, and actually seem to have smoother bass and better imaging about 6 inches off the wall than they do well out into the room. AIIIs can be driven effectively by suprisingly low powered amps, I have used a 17 WPC Audio Note P2SE very successfully, and Peter gave his parents a 20 WPC NAD3020 to drive theirs. The AIII uses the floor to brace the back of the inverted woofer, so it's important not to bypass this mechanical coupling by putting the speaker on cones or spikes.

I hope this helps.

Michael.

[Guest Dake13]

>Interesting discussion.

>

>Peter would often sit in the listening position with the

>crossover in his lap, and with long leads going from the

>crossover to the speaker. This way he could change and fine

>tune the settings easily and quickly. Once a design was

>finalized, a reference speaker would be retained at the

>factory, against which all production speakers would be

>individually hand tuned to achieve an identical result. In

>addition to basic driver level and crossover point variations,

>these adjustments are used to fine tune the phase

>relationships between the drivers affecting time alignment.

>Without having the reference system at hand to perform this

>critical tuning, any attempts at 'upgrading' the speaker

>beyond simple wire and connector changes is almost certainly

>doomed to failure. Peter's designs are a classic case of how

>careful implementation becomes far more important than using

>expensive designer parts that don't work happily together.

Thanks for the info, Michael. It's great to hear these first hand stories about Peter Snell. I still want to get a pair of A's, when I have the room (I presently have JII's, original K's and EII's, the latter two actually set up). It's been a surprisingly long time since I've seen them come up for sale.

Your home theater set up sounds... big.

I wanted to ask you more about this crossover tuning. This is more or less what Audio Note does, as well. When you say Peter used a 'hand tuner,' I assume you're talking about a potentiometer of some sort? I'm just trying to get a sense of what parts in the xover were actually hand tuned. The inductors are custom wound, but the capacitors, I imagine, would stay the same, as would the resistors, correct? Are you saying the drivers had a certain output, and the inductors would be wound to complement that, correct?

I guess my question is, what are the hand tuned components of a snell xover? I think the answer is inductors and the wirewound resistor on the tweeter, matched to the output of the drivers.

Dake

[Carlspeak]

>>Interesting discussion.

>>

>>Peter would often sit in the listening position with the

>>crossover in his lap, and with long leads going from the

>>crossover to the speaker. This way he could change and

>fine

>>tune the settings easily and quickly. Once a design was

>>finalized, a reference speaker would be retained at the

>>factory, against which all production speakers would be

>>individually hand tuned to achieve an identical result.

>In

>>addition to basic driver level and crossover point

>variations,

>>these adjustments are used to fine tune the phase

>>relationships between the drivers affecting time

>alignment.

>>Without having the reference system at hand to perform

>this

>>critical tuning, any attempts at 'upgrading' the speaker

>>beyond simple wire and connector changes is almost

>certainly

>>doomed to failure. Peter's designs are a classic case of

>how

>>careful implementation becomes far more important than

>using

>>expensive designer parts that don't work happily

>together.

>

>Thanks for the info, Michael. It's great to hear these first

>hand stories about Peter Snell. I still want to get a pair of

>A's, when I have the room (I presently have JII's, original

>K's and EII's, the latter two actually set up). It's been a

>surprisingly long time since I've seen them come up for sale.

>

>Your home theater set up sounds... big.

>

>I wanted to ask you more about this crossover tuning. This is

>more or less what Audio Note does, as well. When you say Peter

>used a 'hand tuner,' I assume you're talking about a

>potentiometer of some sort? I'm just trying to get a sense of

>what parts in the xover were actually hand tuned. The

>inductors are custom wound, but the capacitors, I imagine,

>would stay the same, as would the resistors, correct? Are you

>saying the drivers had a certain output, and the inductors

>would be wound to complement that, correct?

>

>I guess my question is, what are the hand tuned components of

>a snell xover? I think the answer is inductors and the

>wirewound resistor on the tweeter, matched to the output of

>the drivers.

>

>Dake

All the Snells I've upgraded or repaired had a unique sliding wire wound resistor in series with the tweeter. Loosen a screw and one could affect the series resistance by sliding the connection along the wire wound body. This may be all that was done. It's a clever way to match the SPL of the tweeter to the rest of the drivers.

The only other thing I suspect Peter fooled with where the caps. He had all sorts of strange combinations of capacitors wired in series and parallel in order to get the capacitance he was looking for. In retrospect though, IMO it may have been his way of using the ones he had in stock to come up with a uF value he didn't stock.

It's all about the music

Carl

Carl's Custom Loudspeakers

[Guest Dake13]

>All the Snells I've upgraded or repaired had a unique sliding

>wire wound resistor in series with the tweeter. Loosen a screw

>and one could affect the series resistance by sliding the

>connection along the wire wound body. This may be all that was

>done. It's a clever way to match the SPL of the tweeter to the

>rest of the drivers.

>The only other thing I suspect Peter fooled with where the

>caps. He had all sorts of strange combinations of capacitors

>wired in series and parallel in order to get the capacitance

>he was looking for. In retrospect though, IMO it may have been

>his way of using the ones he had in stock to come up with a uF

>value he didn't stock.

>

>It's all about the music

>

>Carl

>Carl's Custom Loudspeakers

Hi Carl-

Yeah, I forgot about that resistor. The same thing is in the Audio Notes. That wouldn't seem to offer a whole heck of a lot in the way of speaker-matching technology. I wonder how those resistors 'sound,' what their sonic signature is, and what benefits there might be in substituting a fixed value. However the fact that AN uses them suggests that they're pretty good.

A guy at Snell told me that they used to buy caps in bulk and there was no rhyme or reason to the combinations of values put together. One thing I've noticed with snells is that they even occasionally bypass a polyprop with an electrolytic in one channel only, in order to get the right combined value. Most people today would probably say that would produce a mismatch or channel imbalance of one kind or another.

Dake

[Guest shinri]

>

>Hi Carl-

>Yeah, I forgot about that resistor. The same thing is in the

>Audio Notes. That wouldn't seem to offer a whole heck of a lot

>in the way of speaker-matching technology. I wonder how those

>resistors 'sound,' what their sonic signature is, and what

>benefits there might be in substituting a fixed value. However

>the fact that AN uses them suggests that they're pretty good.

>

>A guy at Snell told me that they used to buy caps in bulk and

>there was no rhyme or reason to the combinations of values put

>together. One thing I've noticed with snells is that they even

>occasionally bypass a polyprop with an electrolytic in one

>channel only, in order to get the right combined value. Most

>people today would probably say that would produce a mismatch

>or channel imbalance of one kind or another.

>

>Dake

>

The tuning I was talking about was during the development of a new model, to get the final voicing right. He would substitute caps, change inductor values, and adjust the wirewound resistors to get the sound he wanted.

Once the design was settled, they would keep the hand tuned prototype as a reference to measure production speakers against, and in production Snell would adjust both the wirewound resistor, and the number of turns on each inductor until each speaker matched the output of the reference. In some cases they would also adjust the amount of damping fill inside the cabinet. PS was never a big believer in boutique parts, although it should be noted that the fancy components industry hardly existed in 1985.

I believe Audio Note uses a similar method.

Michael.

[Pete B]

Here's a picture of the AD5060:

http://www.hupse.nl/radio/speaker_images/AD5060Sq8.jpg

Link: http://www.hupse.nl/radio/speakers/AD5060.htm

Pete B.

I was asked to post specs for the mid, here they are:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Boar...?showtopic=4320

Anyone going to post the Snell Type A crossover schematic? I'd like to

see it.