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Epi 5 8 (old) - need help


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I have a pair od Epi 5 (old, 80 watts).

They are small and very loud.

I opened them: the 6" woofer has written, with a pencil, "Epi 70".

The serial number is 1143. The date 11th oct. 1976.

I like their sound: smooth (confidential?)with a good image.

Maybe they are not so strong in the high frequencies...

As I heard thath the tweeter (air spring) was very good, I ask if i have to repair something..

Does anyone knows Epi 5 and can help me?

The sound seem to be all in the mid-range..

thanks Angelo - Roma (italy)

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  • 1 month later...

Sorry this reply has taken over a month...

The Epicure 5 is very similar to the EPI 70 and the later A70, which are of similar size and have the same woofer and tweeter types. I own a pair of the EPI A70.

These were the smaller speakers in EPI's lineup, and because they use a six-inch woofer, they'll always have less bass than the larger models.

However, because of the age of your speakers (nearly 25 years), one problem you could have is that the woofer speaker cones may need to have the soft foam part at the edge that allows the cone to move to be replaced. Often at this age, the foam edge is rotted, cracked and falling apart, and even if it isn't, after all this time, it may have hardened.

A good stereo repair store should be able to fix or tell you where you can get the woofers refoamed. Search on Google for "speaker refoaming", and you'll find some information. A lot of useful information on Epicure and related speakers is available at www.humanspeakers.com.

joel

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  • 2 years later...
Guest molecules

I have a pair of Epicure 5's, but the original woofers have been replaced by the original owner with 2 different Radio Shack woofers. Does anybody know of a good replacement woofer, besides Human Speakers ($48.00 each) or originals ($20 on ebay plus shipping plus $25 to refoam) ?

Do you think it is worth the money for these ? I see complete EPI 100's refoamed going almost as cheap !

Dave

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Hi molecules,

This is a good example of where it would be very hard to find a drop in replacement woofer at a reasonable cost, your best bet is probably the stock 6.5" replacement from Human Speakers.

I liked the EPI 100s very much, heard them often, but never owned a pair. They were a sensible design from an engineering standpoint. Smaller than the original Advent with a good long throw 8", excellent inverted dome tweeter. The driver integration was very good even with the simple crossover. The woofer is long throw following the common formula of the day with a large spider, .75" long voice coil in a .25" tall magnetic gap for a .25" or 6 mm peak Xmax. .5" Xmax peak to peak, a long 1" peak to peak mechanical Xmax before hitting the back plate. A fairly high moving mass was used to get a low Fc in the typical bookshelf size box. Two 10 oz magnets were stacked for 20 oz total, and this depth helped to achieve the 1" pp mechanical Xmax. The decent sized magnet and low impedance helped recover voltage sensitivity that's lost with the long throw and heavy cone.

The tweeter has a .06" or 1.5 mm Xmax (one way), more than any other tweeter I know of:

http://www.humanspeakers.com/diy/parts/002.htm

I believe that the long voice coil provided fairly high voice coil inductance to roll off the woofer and even provide some baffle loss compensation.

I mention all of this because the 6.5" woofer has the same motor, but obviously with the smaller cone. I had a chance to hear the 6.5" version (either model 70s or 5s don't remember exactly) in my system many years ago for a few days, but I did not like them even with subs. I always used my own designs back then anyway. I just don't think they came together the same way that the 100s did. I don't think they're worth fixing unless you want to do it for the enjoyment of working on them. There are much better choices, for a little more money, even without the mods given here:

http://murphyblaster.com/content.php?f=RTi28.html

I always remember the EPIs as being rated as 8 ohm, but if you look at the Human site:

http://www.humanspeakers.com/diy/parts/007.htm

you can see that they're actually 4 ohm since the woofers have about a 3.8 ohm DC resistance, nice mechanical drawing there also. There are not a lot of 4 ohm drivers out there which right off limits the selection. There's no woofer crossover in the EPIs so the woofer has to be smooth right up to the crossover point. Both the EPI drivers are longer throw than what's typically available from Vifa, SEAS, Peerless etc, or the US brands. There are a few very expensive Scans and old Focal 7" drivers that have the required Xmax. I calculate the moving mass for the 6.5" EPI to be about 23 grams, most others are 10 to 18 grams. Most of these lower mass 6.5" go out to 3 or 5 kHz rather than 1.8 k in the EPIs.

The Silver Flute 6.5" (I just noticed that the 4 ohm version is no longer listed, you might ask if they have the 4 ohm) at Madisound comes to mind for $20 with 5mm Xmax but the cone mass is slightly low and there's a peak in the high end response. The T&S parameters don't pass a sanity check with me, but I've never measured them. You can add mass with mortite and lead solder, or coins (2 to 4 pennies at 2.5g each) in the event that you want to experiment, then glue it on if you like it:

http://madisound.com/silverflute.html

I really do not suggest this unless you just want to get them working for say a background system. There are also some house brand and close out 6.5" drivers at zalytron.com that might work.

There is one 6.5" that leaves the rest in the dust as far as throw and linearity go, they rate it at 13mm Xmax one way (this is by the -3dB motor strength method), the Extremis 6 from Adire:

http://www.adireaudio.com/TextPages/Extrem...geFrameText.htm

The driver probably deserves a better enclosure but it sure would make an interesting project especially if you can get someone to help redo the crossover. Perhaps Adire would help you.

I've said that sometimes there is no good drop in replacement and this is one of those situations.

I don't often work on friend's speakers, but I've been helping out lately with some of the old legendary designs that I find interesting. I happen to have a pair of Genesis 2s that need refoaming here so EPIs are on my mind. Foam for the Advents is backordered.

Hope you let us know if you find anything interesting.

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I wrote:

>The tweeter has a .06" or 1.5 mm Xmax (one way), more than any

>other tweeter I know of:

> http://www.humanspeakers.com/diy/parts/002.htm

That should be 1.5 mm peak to peak not one way, it's .76 mm one way, still much more than the typical .2 to .5 mm or less.

Pete B.

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Guest molecules

That makes sense, I have too many speakers anyway, and I don't really like their looks. Still, I will have to fix them or give them away, I can't stand having something incomplete around ! Thanks for the advice.

The web site is very interesting. I am surprised that the Sound Dynamic cabinets would be made so cheap considering the rave that TAS gives it. The resonances must be audible. These golden eared guys seem to not mind the one-note port resonances most modern small boxes have so maybe it figures.

The web site also talks about the Polk midrange issue. Both measurable and audible but Stereophile raves about it !

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If the tweeters are working at least save them they're good ones.

I forgot to mention a 4 ohm Dayton 6.5" it's got the usual problems with lower Xmax and probably cone mass but I prefer it over the Silver Flute:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cf...tnumber=295-308

I don't follow the Dayton DIY designs but I believe there are several and a lot of talk about the 6.5s from Dayton on the PE message board.

The issue with reviews is interesting as there's always the consideration of their loosing advertising so it's rare that a bad review is given. I believe that most reviewers hint in a polite way that a system is not recommended. That they rave about these designs I think just goes to show how many bad designs there are out there, and how tolerant most are of some things that measure poorly. I'm sure there is the usual business politics going on.

>That makes sense, I have too many speakers anyway, and I

>don't really like their looks. Still, I will have to fix them

>or give them away, I can't stand having something incomplete

>around ! Thanks for the advice.

>

>The web site is very interesting. I am surprised that the

>Sound Dynamic cabinets would be made so cheap considering the

>rave that TAS gives it. The resonances must be audible. These

>golden eared guys seem to not mind the one-note port

>resonances most modern small boxes have so maybe it figures.

>

>The web site also talks about the Polk midrange issue. Both

>measurable and audible but Stereophile raves about it !

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A DIY 2way with the 8 ohm Dayton 6.5", the crossover is rather complex but more in line with an expensive mini monitor. Note very low sensitivity of about 82 dB:

http://www.speakerbuilder.net/web_files/Pr...s/D2/d2main.htm

Another design with a Peerless 6.5", 5 ohm min, 87 dB sensitivity:

http://www.speakerbuilder.net/web_files/Pr...ek/pcrkmain.htm

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