Allison Two's

[Guest floweringlotus]

I purchased my Allison Two's in 1979 and am as impressed today as I was when I first heard them. I need to replace the foam and am wondering if it is okay to do it myself & use the foam replacements that are generally available, like on eBay and such. Or... since they ARE Allison speakers, if it is better to send them out to have it professionally done. ??

Will appreciate all suggestions.

Thanks much,

Leslie ... in So. California

[Guest Baffle]

>I purchased my Allison Two's in 1979 and am as impressed

>today as I was when I first heard them. I need to replace the

>foam and am wondering if it is okay to do it myself & use the

>foam replacements that are generally available, like on eBay

>and such. Or... since they ARE Allison speakers, if it is

>better to send them out to have it professionally done. ??

>Will appreciate all suggestions.

>

>Thanks much,

>Leslie ... in So. California

Hi Leslie,

The Simply Speaker foam kits would be fine frome Ebay, (I used their repair service for a woofer from my Allison Ones with fine results, as several other people I know of have done.)

You probably need all four done and I think your best bet is to send them out (Simply Speakers). If the cones are not lined up perfectly you can get noise from the woofer's excursion hitting the basket.

Worthwhile investment since you will get 10-15 years service at least out of them redone.

Regards,

Bill M

[r_laski]

>>Will appreciate all suggestions.<<

Leslie,

I prefer to do my own re-edging (refoaming) and I use kits from Parts Express. However, DIY refoaming is not for everyone. I recommend you visit this site and browse through the re-edge instructions (lighthearted and amusing as well as informative). http://www.decware.com/surround.htm

After viewing these online instructions you should have a pretty good idea whether or not you want to tackle your refoam job yourself or leave it to the professionals. The only real advantage to DIY is you save about half the cost of having someone else do the work – roughly $25-$30 per pair of speakers. You have to ask yourself, “what’s my time worth?”

I agree with Bill that you need to have all four woofers refoamed at the same time. I also agree that your best bet with only four woofers might be to let the pros do it.

Since you are in So California, instead of Simply Speakers (Florida) I recommend you consider Orange County Speakers in Garden Grove, CA (http://www.speakerrepair.com/) If you can take your woofers to them you will save a bunch in shipping costs.

Rich

[Guest floweringlotus]

Hi Rich,

Thanks for the info! I will for sure read the site on DIY. I'm grateful to know about it. I am interested in saving money, which is why I wanted to do it myself. You mention 'roughly $25-$30 per pair of speakers.' So one pair costs around $60?

Is it best to 'have all four woofers refoamed at the same time' in order to keep the consistency of the quality of the speakers the same?

I'm definitely willing to take them to Garden Grove. No problem there. I'm actually three hours north but I go down to the LA area frequently so I really appreciate learning about Orange Cty. Speakers. Thank you so much!

Someone told me to take the woofers out of the cabinet when I send them out. Is this okay? Would it better to take the entire speaker down there?

Hoping not... @50 lbs each!

Thanks again,

Leslie

[Guest floweringlotus]

Hi bill,

Well, I posted a reply but it isn't showing up, :-( so I'm writing again.

Thank you for your input. I will look into Simply Speakers a bit more. I would hate to put all the effort into doing it myself and have that noise that you mention afterwards. I used to do drafting so I am pretty meticulous, but I may save myself some aggravation by sending them out.

Thanks!

Leslie

[r_laski]

Hi Leslie,

>> Thanks for the info!<<

You’re Welcome! Hope it helps.

>>So one pair costs around $60? <<

That’s right. When you browse through Orange County Speaker’s (OCS) web site you will see they list Allison as a brand of speakers they work on. If I read their price list correctly, they charge $25 per woofer (plus tax) to re-edge Allison 8” woofers. I’ve worked on AR woofers and for some reason many shops charge more for them – OCS charges $32 (Thus the price range I mentioned).

If you buy a re-edge kit, each kit will re-edge two woofers. You will need two kits for your Allison Two’s. OCS re-edge kit price ($29.95 plus shipping and /or tax) is on the high side. By comparison, an 8” re-foam kit from Parts Express is $21.50 (plus shipping). Simply Speakers kits are $18.50 – $21.50 (plus shipping) on eBay.

A lot of numbers, but if you follow my train of thought, the kit cost roughly the same as re-edging one speaker. Since you can re-edge two speakers per kit, you save about half the cost of having someone else re-edging a pair of your speakers.

I read your post to Bill where you said you used to do drafting. Being meticulous and detail oriented is key to a successful re-edge job. Especially cutting and reinstalling the dust cap and lining up the surround on the cone and on the basket. 8” woofers are a great size to perform your first few re-edge jobs on. (12” AR woofers can be a little intimidating the first time you re-edge one of them. But not nearly as daunting after you’ve done a few 8” woofers).

The reason I prefer the Parts Express kit to the others is they include both flat and angled surrounds in each kit (4 surrounds, 2 of them are the correct ones for you speakers - no guesswork on which kit to order) and the shims you need to shim the voice coil gap while you are removing the old and installing the new surround. Shimming the voice coil will ensure it won’t rub against the pole piece and helps you line up the surround so you don’t get the noise Bill mentioned. Parts Express also includes some replacement dust caps in case you can’t reattach the originals.

>>Is it best to 'have all four woofers refoamed at the same time' in order to keep the consistency of the quality of the speakers the same?<<

Right again! More specifically, the quality/age of the foam surround is kept consistent and therefore the quality (performance) of all the speakers is kept the same.

>> Someone told me to take the woofers out of the cabinet when I send them out. Is this okay? Would it better to take the entire speaker down there?

Hoping not... @50 lbs each!<<

I’d take the woofers out of the cabinets. Note the color coding of each of the wires attached to the woofers – Which color goes to which connector on the woofer. Write it down. If you take your cabinets in to OCS, they will charge you an extra $19.50 per cabinet. See their web site for what they do for this charge. If you want them to check out the crossovers, take the cabinets, otherwise just take the woofers.

Rich

[Guest floweringlotus]

Hi Rich,

>...When you browse through Orange County Speaker’s web site you will see...>

>A lot of numbers, but if you follow my train of thought, the

>kit cost roughly the same as re-edging one speaker. Since you

>can re-edge two speakers per kit, you save about half the cost

>of having someone else re-edging a pair of your speakers.

Yes, I read all the links that applied to me. I see the prices.

It does seem, though, that it is worth it to have them do it considering all that they do. It sounds impressive, although I don't know if it is. ..? I have never had any problems with the speakers at all and even had to store them for six months when I went overseas years ago, and then moved them from Montana to CA. Still have the original boxes. It might be helpful to have them looked over.

>Being meticulous and detail oriented is key to a

>successful re-edge job. Especially cutting and reinstalling

>the dust cap and lining up the surround on the cone and on the

>basket. 8” woofers are a great size to perform your first few

>re-edge jobs on. (12” AR woofers can be a little intimidating

>the first time you re-edge one of them. But not nearly as

>daunting after you’ve done a few 8” woofers).

Wow, I can see where being detail-oriented would be necessary. I'm learning more and more. It sounds interesting and challenging. I haven't read the DIY site yet. Read: trying not to get intimidated.

>The reason I prefer the Parts Express kit to the others is

>they include both flat and angled surrounds in each kit (4

>surrounds, 2 of them are the correct ones for you speakers -

>no guesswork on which kit to order) and the shims you need to

>shim the voice coil gap while you are removing the old and

>installing the new surround. Shimming the voice coil will

>ensure it won’t rub against the pole piece and helps you line

>up the surround so you don’t get the noise Bill mentioned.

>Parts Express also includes some replacement dust caps in case

>you can’t reattach the originals.

Definitely sounds like the better place to order from!

>>>Is it best to 'have all four woofers refoamed at the same

>time' in order to keep the consistency of the quality of the

>speakers the same?<<

>

>Right again! More specifically, the quality/age of the foam

>surround is kept consistent and therefore the quality

>of all the speakers is kept the same.

That would be important in something like good speakers. Again, liking the detail of that.

>I’d take the woofers out of the cabinets. Note the color

>coding of each of the wires attached to the woofers – Which

>color goes to which connector on the woofer. Write it down.

Thanks for telling me this. I may have missed it and it sounds pretty valuable.

>If you take your cabinets in to OCS, they will charge you an

>extra $19.50 per cabinet. See their web site for what they do

>for this charge. If you want them to check out the crossovers,

>take the cabinets, otherwise just take the woofers.

You know, after reading about this on their site, it sounds worthwhile to do, but in your experience, is it really?

I went on the UPS shipping site and calculated about $10+ [depending on weight]to ship down there, but I would rather take them myself and see the place and talk to them in person. Too bad I'm not ready to do it, I'm going down to West LA in the morning.

So, you have used them... Have you gone there? Or did you ship? How did you hear about them? Are they okay to use if they are not Allison certified? Or does that matter anymore.. refering to their age..?

Thank you for all of your assistance Rich,

Leslie

[r_laski]

Hi Leslie,

(reply delayed due to trip out of town)

>>It does seem, though, that it is worth it to have them do it considering all that they do. It sounds impressive, although I don't know if it is. ..? … It might be helpful to have them looked over… << (re-edge)

Remember, Bill and I recommend this is probably the best way for you to go.

Their list of procedures sounds impressive. However, there are only two items you don’t do in a DIY re-edge unless you have test equipment –

1) Measure voice coil for proper impedance, and

2) Run complete frequency sweep and test (this test ensures there are none of the noises Bill mentioned).

Due to the age of your Allison speakers, it just might be worthwhile to have them re-edge and test them. With OCS you get a one year warranty on their work.

>> You know, after reading about this on their site, it sounds worthwhile to do, but in your experience, is it really?<< (take cabinets in)

My opinion - If your Allison Two’s still sound as good to you as when you bought them, Just take/send the woofers in to be re-foamed. If you believe the sound of your speakers have degraded over time, may be worth it to you to have them checked out.

Amortize the cost of these services over how long you’ve had your speakers and how much longer you plan to keep them to determine if the cost of having OCS take a look is reasonable.

My experience - the only crossover parts that may have degraded over time are the electrolytic capacitors that were used in almost all speakers in the 70’s. These were not “bad” capacitors at all. It’s just that they may lose their “capacitance” over time.

One question that comes to mind when reading what they do “testing components and component removal and replacement,” – are they only talking about the drivers – woofers, midranges, and tweeters when you use the word “component?” That’s what I think they mean. They remove and replace the woofer “component” to re-edge it. If they have to “remove and replace” a crossover capacitor, that’s not a “component” and will cost extra.

>>I went on the UPS shipping site and calculated about $10+ to ship down there, but I would rather take them myself and see the place and talk to them in person. Too bad I'm not ready to do it, I'm going down to West LA in the morning.<<

I agree with the face to face approach. I think it’s a good idea to visit OCS either before you take (ship) your speakers in or when you take them in. You might call them before you go down there to get a feel for how they are to talk to. You have to be comfortable with and confident in any shop that is going to work on your speakers. If you don’t like what you see or hear, don’t leave your speakers with them.

I originally recommended you consider looking at OCS to avoid or minimize shipping / shipping charges. I didn’t know at that time they were 3 hours away from you!

>>So, you have used them... Have you gone there? Or did you ship? How did you hear about them?<<

I live in Atlanta and I do all my own re-edging. I am lucky to have a very good repair shop nearby that re-coned an AR woofer for me (more complicated repair than re-edging and no one would sell me a re-cone kit). Before I moved to Atlanta 10 years ago, I lived in Northern CA and had a not so good experience with an AR authorized repair shop in Sacramento.

I haven’t used OCS - yet. Don’t let that discount my recommendation too much. If I lived in Southern CA and needed a speaker repaired that I couldn’t do myself, I’d go to OCS.

- I saw they were very highly recommended on a speaker related web site and in some audio discussion forums that I had browsed through. -- How I heard about them and book marked their web site.

- Family owned and they’ve been in business since 1968. That’s longer than many (most) speaker manufacturers have been in business. Their primary business is speaker repair. They work on speakers of many companies that are no longer in business. Look at their client list. These are companies they have service agreements/contracts with.

- Member of the Better Business Bureau. You can call the BBB and ask if they have any complaints on file against OCS. And report them to the BBB if you are dissatisfied and can’t resolve an issue with them.

- Their re-edge price is very reasonable. Very competitive to other re-edge shops, much more so than their re-edge kit price.

>>Are they okay to use if they are not Allison certified? Or does that matter anymore.. referring to their age..?<<

They work on just about every brand of speaker including Allison and there isn’t anything exotic about re-foaming the Allison 8” woofer. There is no Allison warranty issue here, so not being an authorized (certified) Allison repair shop is not a factor.

I’ve looked at the Allison One/Two crossover schematic on this web site and I don’t see any part they could not find a like quality replacement for if you decided to take your cabinets in and heaven forbid, they find something that needs replacing on a crossover.

Rich

[Guest floweringlotus]

Hi Rich,

Thanks for letting me know you were out of town. You were thoughtful to include that.

I don't mind OCS being 3 hours away, actually. I live in Bakersfield and there isn't anything here that I know of. We have lost a couple of high end shops in previous years. I don't think we have anything aside from the standard bad Guys and Circuit City, although admittedly, I have not yet researched what is left. Will do that tonight. Going to LA is okay though. It is extremely important to me to take them to a reputable place; I'd rather know they are in good hands - I haven't had kids and aside from my dogs (in a previous lifetime), these are the closest thing to kids.... I have always told people that if there was a fire, I would grab my speakers and run with them.

Amortizing: Have had them 24 years and will probably have them another 30 years?? I'm 51 now, so let's see.... maybe longer! At this point, I haven't ever given thought to replacing them as there has been no need. Am grateful for that.

>One question that comes to mind when reading what they do “testing >components and component removal and replacement,” ...are they only >talking about the drivers...when you use the word “component?” >That’s what I think they mean. If they have to ........that’s not >a “component” and will cost extra.

Good point. Hopefully there won't be anything that needs replacement.

I did look at their client list. It is very impressive of course. Have worked on everything. They appear very reputable and as you say, a member of the BBB. I sure wouldn't have to leave anything with them if I didn't like them.

Yesterday I didn't have time to go down there, but I did think about it. I'll give them a call first, talk and get an idea of how they come across. I do like the idea that they are family-owned. That has a good feel to it, better than a chain. Means they might care more and TAKE more care. Yes, in my experience, too, being around since 1968 says a lot for them!

As you say, "there isn’t anything exotic about re-foaming the Allison 8” woofer." I thought about that when I asked you about them; I realized after I wrote that there wasn't a warranty issue any longer.

About the quality: sitting here thining about it, at the moment I am w/o a cdp and haven't yet hooked up my new cassette deck because I'm in the middle of redesigning my audio shelving. I purchased a sort of Euro style shelving unit. Anyway, I've been considering a new Cambridge cdp, but don't want to spend the $$, and now have a lead on a gently used Rotel, used Nakamichi &/or pro model Denon. Any thoughts?? I liked the clean yet warm sound of the Cambridge! Haven't heard the Rotel, just know the name. And, I like Denon products. And, Nakamichi has been around for years....... don't know yet.

Heaven forbid there should be anything wrong with the crossovers.... keeping my fingers crossed. I'll call them tomorrow.

Leslie

[r_laski]

>>>About the quality: … I've been considering a new Cambridge cdp, but don't want to spend the $$, and now have a lead on a gently used Rotel, used Nakamichi &/or pro model Denon. Any thoughts??

I liked the clean yet warm sound of the Cambridge! Haven't heard the Rotel, just know the name. And, I like Denon products. And, Nakamichi has been around for years....... don't know yet.<<

Hi Leslie,

This is a tough question. I haven’t shopped for a CDP in almost 15 years. The four you mentioned are all high quality manufacturers with some very good CDP models. Only thought I have is, if at all possible, try to listen to each one and buy the one you find sounds the best on your system.

I just recently started looking at CD/SACD players. It seems digital still suffers from the "flavor of the month" syndrome.

I’m intrigued by tube CD players. I’ve started looking at them only because I find them interesting, not to buy one. I’m also glad to see vinyl is making a comeback.

Let us know about your experience with OCS (good or bad) if you decide to take your speakers there.

Rich

[Guest floweringlotus]

I will Rich, thanks for your help. I did decide to go there. Along with your referral, I thought to ask an engineer friend of mine who lives down in the San Bernadino area. Surprisingly, I found out that he has been going there for 'decades' as he put it. He has some friends who use them, as well, so, OCS it is...

Thanks again,

Leslie

[Guest Baffle]

>Hi bill,

>

>Well, I posted a reply but it isn't showing up, :-( so I'm

>writing again.

>Thank you for your input. I will look into Simply Speakers a

>bit more. I would hate to put all the effort into doing it

>myself and have that noise that you mention afterwards.

Hi Leslie,

I tried the refoam myself once using surrounds from a place called Stepp Audio Technologies. Their instructions lacked the detail that Rich brought up on his post.(very imformative) I ended up with a less than perfect alignment of the voice coil that resulted in noise when the speaker was played loud. Ultimately,I ended up buying a new woofer. Still, in the scope of things, that's peanuts to keep a pair of Allison:Ones up to spec. These days they go for over 4000 bucks.

Since 2000, I've used a Velodyne HGS 18 Subwoofer to extend the bass without pushing my old Ones too far. My only gripe about the Allison's is that they don't have enough bass output at LOW listening levels. A subwoofer is the cure all for that, and it takes the load off the Allisons, especially in the context of home theater applications. Crossover at 80HZ.

I used

>to do drafting so I am pretty meticulous, but I may save

>myself some aggravation by sending them out.

Yes, and I read the post about cabinets, or no cabinets. Just make a note of the wires and leave the cabinets home.

Regards,

Bill