large advents RMS power handling

[Guest analoguy]

hi iam new to this forum ...and iam even new to advent speaker ...but i love them .....

i own a pair of large advents ...they are driven by a 70watts RMS per channel yamaha A-500 amp ....now iam trying to upgade to a vintage sansui AU-9900 which has 80 watts RMS per channel..and can pump music peaks abouve 240 watts...

Now i need ti know the optimum power handling of these speakers ...both in continuese and peaks ...and is it advisible to drive them with the vintage sansui AU-9900 ...cause its quite a massive amp.... thanks..

[dynaco_dan]

Hi there

Great that you acquired Advent speakers.

They can provide you with many decades of enjoyment.

First things first.

I recommend you be sure of having them fused.

If you don't have speaker fuses in the amps or receivers add a solder in-line type.

Use for starters, a 1 amp fast blow fuse and keep a few extras on hand for the inevitable overload.

With these fuses you can enjoy most any music at a realistic, and I stresse realistic, volume level and not blow a fuse and in particular a tweeter, the weak point.

My notes are still all packed up, so I can't say factually state the powerhandling capability of the speakers.

These are like most other speakers on the Arsenal site, a hifi speaker.

They are not meant to provide disco levels, and to demand disco levels is an invitation to burn the voice coils of the speakers.

Never let anyone tell you that you can't blow speakers with a 10 watt per channel amp for a speaker that the manufacturer rated at 60 watts.

There is so much more to knowing the manufacturers rating.

Look at the AR site and locate the fusing sheet of instructions.

They, using their recommended fuses for their speakers, breakdown the time and power rating before their fuses will blow.

They used delay acting fuses, which they felt, under their test procedurtes provided protection for their speakers.

Those fuses are now hard to find and upwards of $5.00 each now.

Some manufacturers recommended fast blow fuses which are readily available and cheap.

This is when doing the unusual, such as frequency testing.

In normal use fuses are not needed but we sometimes push the limits and in the case of the Advents, I feel the tweeter is the first to go typically.

As we push the limits with smaller amps the voice coil heats up.

Now we start pushing the limits a little higher and the voil coil becomes like a toaster coil and burns the form and insulation of the coil.

We now may have coil wire insulation bubbles which start to rub.

It's now too late and the damage is done and not repairable.

A $.25 fuse loss is far better than a $25.00 tweeter being blown.

There has been numerous articles about the effect of speaker damping using fuses but there again $.25 versus $25.00.

One may increase the size from 1 amp up to a larger amperage but without almost destroying a driver we can't determine the upper range.

Stay at a safe 1 amp fuse.

The Smaller Advent is 4 ohms and I believe Advent recommended a 1 amp slow blow fuse.

I don't suggest trying this.

You certainly wouldn't want your amp clipping.

Your volume control shouldn't be at maximum setting.

With the volume control off at the 6 o'clock position, turning CW to about 2 o'clock, this is probably about the loudest you should have it.

With cd's there is a lot of deep bass so be careful and rewinding reel to reel tapes can also fry tweeters.

Good luck and enjoy.

Vern

>hi iam new to this forum ...and iam even new to advent

>speaker ...but i love them .....

>

> i own a pair of large advents ...they are driven by a

>70watts RMS per channel yamaha A-500 amp ....now iam trying to

>upgade to a vintage sansui AU-9900 which has 80 watts RMS per

>channel..and can pump music peaks abouve 240 watts...

> Now i need ti know the optimum power handling of

>these speakers ...both in continuese and peaks ...and is it

>advisible to drive them with the vintage sansui AU-9900

>...cause its quite a massive amp.... thanks..

[dynaco_dan]

Hi again Nick

Back again with some more trivia.

When I previously said the Advent tweeter is the weak link I was comparing the power handling ability compared to the Advent woofer.

The tweeter in the original Larger Advent ( I can't say for certain that the reddy/orange raised tweeter is the very earliest model ). It seems someone, somewhere mentioned they didn't have a mesh over the earliest version of tweeters. I can't confirm this. But they went on to say that later the power handling was improved. I can't confirm this either. There is also a flush reddy/orange version and green version of which I don't know the difference.

I did have more than one occasion to hear the early Larger Advents in a store, at shall we say, concert hall levels and then some, beside an AR3a system.

You can say the Advent tweeter put on a great show coming from a two way system.

I am surprised looking back, that a Advent/AR-LST or particularly AR-MST type configuration wasn't manufactured. It may have been on the drawing board or a prototype made but I've heard nothing in this area.

I wonder if a former employee of the original Advent Corporation or anyone could comment on this subject.

>If you don't have speaker fuses in the amps or receivers add a

>solder in-line type.

Radio Shack used to have for a dollar or two, open type fuse blocks for the std. 1/4 x 1 1/4" fuses, you cut the hot lead close to the speaker and solder it and solder a short length to the speaker terminal. There is a hole to screw it to your enclosure. I would screw it to the enclosure if you'll be moving the cabinets around. Or you can attach it at the rear of the amp also. Always keeps spare fuses ( about 5 for $1.00 ) on hand. Whatever you do, don't use the " old blown fuse, wrap with tin foil " till I get somemore. That is just trouble waitng to happen. I've seen that, not done that.

>

>Use for starters, a 1 amp fast blow fuse and keep a few extras

>on hand for the inevitable overload.

>

>Stay at a safe 1 amp fuse.

>

>

>Good luck again and enjoy.

>

>Vern

[Guest SpruceMoose]

by all means, fuse them. i have been lucky (and lazy) so far. i have run my late '70s large advents (since new) with a 75wpc kenwood amp, a 205wpc carver cube amp (till the amp started occilating. got REALLY loud!), 100wpc jvc a/v receiver, and now a 100wpc kenwood a/v receiver. never had a problem driving them to very high volumes. i'm running 3 pairs of doubles across the front of the living room HT now, so i guess they are getting 50 watts each. bet they feel better! still can play way too loud! also, IIRC, advent claimed 15 watts MINIMUM rms power, and no maximum on musical program material in a typical home enviroment.

enjoy the toys!

sm.

[dynaco_dan]

Hi again

Getting back to you again about the fusing of the Advent speakers.

Solder inline open fuse holders at the speakers or the amp for each speaker.

I would suggest a safe 1 amp fast blow fuse 1/4 x 1 1/4" which are readily available at around $.25 each.

Radio Shack is a readily available source. They are so common at least in North America that I think that most larger home centers and drug stores have them as well.

I haven't popped a fuse in a long while. Turning up the volume level with heavy music will do it. Changing connectors without turning the equipment off will definitely do it.

A friend years ago touched a loose ground wire to his pre-amp while his system was on and a large transient was enjoyed by all but didn't blow the fuse ( AR-LST has a much larger slow blow fuse ).

Later on that evening he did a real no-no and decided to change turntable cables. He had not turned the system down or off and I'm sure the transient was equivalent to a cannon firing in his living room. Never blew the fuse or drivers. This was with a Phase Linear 700. By now his girlfriend was in tears as she was sitting right next to the LST's. Great smile factor though. What a bass note.

I ramble on, but, the main point is you never know when you wished a fuse was there.

I always wear a seatbelt, too.

I can't suggest increasing the fuse size because I haven't had enough experience to say with any certainty what is the upper safe fuse maximum.

This is not a do it yourself experiment as one mistake and poof the tweeter is gone.

Oops guess that one was too large. Eh!

There must be someone who has experimented who may wish to comment.

At the factories they have unlimitd supplies of speakers to tap into but we don't.

It would have been a very difficult task for them to have told us what size fuse but at least they could have tried.

The Smaller Advent 4 ohm speaker was recommended with a 1 amp slow blow in the owners manual.

There is more than one version of The Larger Advent speaker, different tweeters, different woofers and each change may have increased it's power handling capacity or not.

If there was power handling changes for the better then their rating would have covered all issues of speakers not just the later version.

Similar to firearms such as the 30-30 Winchester which has been around for a century. New ammo has to be made safe enough for the antiques as well as useful for todays more modern, stronger firearms.

A real compromise but necessary.

Same with fusing.

Maybe the factories should have all included fuse holders in all of their models of speakers and recommended sizes.

Maybe someone else out there viewing can comment on this.

Thank you for your kind email in appreciation of my help.

Have a good one.

i iam new to this forum ...and iam even new to advent

>speaker ...but i love them .....

>

> i own a pair of large advents ...they are driven by a

>70watts RMS per channel yamaha A-500 amp ....now iam trying to

>upgade to a vintage sansui AU-9900 which has 80 watts RMS per

>channel..and can pump music peaks abouve 240 watts...

> Now i need ti know the optimum power handling of

>these speakers ...both in continuese and peaks ...and is it

>advisible to drive them with the vintage sansui AU-9900

>...cause its quite a massive amp.... thanks..

[Steve F]

>I am surprised looking back, that a Advent/AR-LST or

>particularly AR-MST type configuration wasn't manufactured. It

>may have been on the drawing board or a prototype made but

>I've heard nothing in this area.

>

>I wonder if a former employee of the original Advent

>Corporation or anyone could comment on this subject.

Advent never contemplated producing a multi-directional speaker in the LST or MST mold. I know several people who were "very high up" at the original Advent Corporation and such a speaker was not part of their plan.

As has been said before on this forum (by myself and others), Advent in the 1969-1977 time frame existed mainly to promote the development and marketing of two-piece large-screen projection televisions. Their loudspeakers were seen as the vehicle to provide the cash flow needed to support the projection TV business. They were great speakers, very successful commercially, but the company was not founded as a speaker company, and therefore, "exotic" designs like the multi-panel LST or MST with limited sales appeal to the heart of the market were definitely not part of their corporate strategy.

That strategy fell apart completely in 1978, as the financial pressures from their failed projection TV business drove Advent into bankruptcy and new ownership.

Several high-ranking members of the original Advent team escaped the sinking ship and founded Boston Acoustics--which carried on the successful Advent loudspeaker legacy, unhindered by Henry Kloss' doomed facination with before-its-time projection television.

Steve F.

[dynaco_dan]

Hi Steve

Thank you for your added insight, you are a wealth of information.

I remember reading an interview with Henry Kloss in an early issue of The Audio Amateur.

That VideoBeam was his pet project.

The interview was very, very interesting.

Can't post it, too bad.

The Videobeam was $6000.00 here in Vancouver with exclusivity to one store when it was first available.

I was servicing equipment in the late '70's in a warehouse here and it was the Electrohome main warehouse.

Electrohome was, I believe, a Canadian retail/manufacturer (?).

Retail distributor in Canada at least, of the Advent Videobeam.

There was about 8 - 10 screens visible in the warehouse and that was a real treat for me after reading about the Videobeam.

I only remember seeing one in a cocktail lounge operating over the years.

The screen was about 4' high x 6' diagonal with the top of the screen about 6 - 7' high off the floor.

The projector unit was on the floor about 8 - 10' back from the screen facing it. Similar to an Empire Troubador speaker.

It was impressive to see at the time.

The article went on to say about the screen being developed by Kodak and the difficulties because of the reflection needed for the display.

The Advent speakers were at this same exclusive store here as well.

I don't remember the exact price but $180.00 cdn rings a bell each in vinyl.

They were set up side by side with AR3a's along with a second set of Advents in their expensive room.

If you made it into this room you must have looked like you had a few dollars.

At least enought to pay for something at least. lol

The Advents sounded good, very good, and the doubles sounded better.

I owned AR3a's at the time and I also worked part time at the local AR warantee station as a volunteer.

After the salesman/owner left the demo room I went to the 3a's to see why they didn't quite sound perfect.

The tweeters were not functioning, for whatever reason, not obvious to me blown, disconnected internally, but not working anyways.

Still the 3a's sounded great, authoritive, but I remember leaving the room thinking everyone else should should be buying Larger Advents.

I recommended them to my brother-in-law in vinyl finish as a good compromise and asked what would they do for me in a trade-in.

Ar3a's in oiled walnut for Oiled walnut Larger Advents.

I figured I would leave with the speakers and a few pesos in my pocket.

The Advents were maybe $220.00 cdn and the 3a's which were still quite new and mint were around $450.00 cdn each.

Well, the owner/salesman, started to play a game, scratchpad and calculator, he even excused himself to ask his boss if it would be ok, he didn't realize I knew who he was, anyways even trade!!!!

I didn't do it, but I always had a hankering for Larger Advents for years.

I had a WF (wife factor) back then so (how can I get these by the wife) wouldn't have worked.

I guess I was a woosh.

Now I'm still a woosh but own Larger Advents.

Toys for boys. Eh?

Another day, another saga.

Have a great day Steve and everyone.

>

>

>>I am surprised looking back, that a Advent/AR-LST or

>>particularly AR-MST type configuration wasn't manufactured.

>It

>>may have been on the drawing board or a prototype made but

>>I've heard nothing in this area.

>>

>>I wonder if a former employee of the original Advent

>>Corporation or anyone could comment on this subject.

>

>

>Advent never contemplated producing a multi-directional

>speaker in the LST or MST mold. I know several people who were

>"very high up" at the original Advent Corporation and such a

>speaker was not part of their plan.

>

>As has been said before on this forum (by myself and others),

>Advent in the 1969-1977 time frame existed mainly to promote

>the development and marketing of two-piece large-screen

>projection televisions. Their loudspeakers were seen as the

>vehicle to provide the cash flow needed to support the

>projection TV business. They were great speakers, very

>successful commercially, but the company was not founded as a

>speaker company, and therefore, "exotic" designs like the

>multi-panel LST or MST with limited sales appeal to the heart

>of the market were definitely not part of their corporate

>strategy.

>

>That strategy fell apart completely in 1978, as the financial

>pressures from their failed projection TV business drove

>Advent into bankruptcy and new ownership.

>

>Several high-ranking members of the original Advent team

>escaped the sinking ship and founded Boston Acoustics--which

>carried on the successful Advent loudspeaker legacy,

>unhindered by Henry Kloss' doomed facination with

>before-its-time projection television.

>

>Steve F.