KLH 33s....

[real1shepherd]

Ummm...admittedly I'm a diehard original ('large') Advent fan, but I can hardly scoff at KLH, since Kloss went onto form Advent Corp after leaving KLH. My question is from memory; so please correct me if I'm wrong, but when I was buying my original Advents, the dealer was doing an A/B comparison with KLH 33s. And to tell the truth, they were nearly identical in sound-do any of you find this to be true (I rarely see anything said or written about the 33s) and did they make zillions like the Advents, or did they fade away??

[DaveD]

The 33 is a vented system with the Kloss tweeter and 10 inch woofer. The woofer cones of the ones I have seen for sale have a "hot cross buns" pattern of what looks like epoxy glue on the woofers. Very strange. Might this be to increase the mass of the cone?

I don't know if the cabinet has a larger size and volume than the KLH 17, but it is the same style and similar in size. "Controlled Acoustic Compliance" is what it is called. I feel that the system was designed by someone other than Kloss, maybe after he left KLH. But, I don't know for sure. Above the crossover, the sound is pure Kloss. I wonder if it really can reach as low as the larger Advent with similar distortion.

I confess to having never heard the larger Advent in modern times or the 33 ever.

[real1shepherd]

Thanx for the response, Dave. Yeah they were set up in the store right next to each other and were very close in size....I think the 33s were a slight bit smaller in dimension somehow (height?). And I made him play a lot of music to 'exercise' those speakers. We're talking over 30yrs, but I remember the 33s falling down in the tight bass region compared to the Advents. But....I recall their tweeters as being a bit 'sweeter". And I was all about heart-ripping bass in those days....well....still am and run a 'double Advent system'.;-)

Interesting comment about the "hot-cross bun pattern" on the woofers-since I had seen the Advents 'naked' many times, I did not ask to see the 33s sans grill clothes. It’s strange I didn't ask, except he (the salesman) kept telling me that they were nearly "identical" Kloss designs and to just close my eyes and listen for the differences.

I guess one of the points I'm trying to make is that the 33s seemed to be a very respectable speaker back in the day and at a great price (much like the Advents), yet Advent seemed to get all the glory for a very similar (but maybe better promoted?) speaker. And so I was wondering from the vantage point of you KLH ‘heads’, how these speakers fared and how many were made?

[DaveD]

Well, I guess you could say that some listeners to any KLH system with the Kloss tweeter and 1.5kHz crossover compared to the larger Advent would say that Henry outdid himself with his KLH tweeter and the first Advent tweeter wasn't as good.

In one of the strings on the KLH forum about the KLH 23 system, there is a comparison to the larger Advent. This 23 is acoustic suspension 2-way with a larger, odd sized woofer, between 10 and 12 inches. One member who owns both the 23 and the larger Advent likes the 23 better because of the midrange and highs. Bass is comparable, I believe he says, and the cabinet volumes and weights are similar, 40-45 pounds.

The vented 33 has a woofer which I believe is 10 inch like the acoustic suspension 17, but with that epoxy appearing cross pattern. In the photos I have available, the 33 cabinet is definitely wider than the 17, possibly slightly taller. I would bet it is deeper, but I don't know. Both cabinets have the same front moulding.

I would guess that the 2-way 17 has better controlled bass than the 33, and it is pretty solid down to 40 hertz-- I have a pair. The 33's bass may not extend as low.

The KLH 17 system weighs 24 pounds.

So, it may be that the KLH 23 has equal bass extension and control compared to the larger Advent, the KLH 17 has similar bass control but 1/3 octave less extension, and the KLH 33 has less well controlled bass with less extension than the 17. But, they all have the Kloss KLH tweeter.

[real1shepherd]

That all makes a lot of sense to me now Dave, as I did remember the KLH tweeter definitely being 'sweeter' than the Advents. In one pair of my Advents, I've put the newer poly tweeters in and that definitely improved the older 'fried-egg' set. I haven't put in the newer poly caps or replaced the other 'fried-egg set'. Chiefly because with the two sets now working together, the individual differences have disappeared into the music, i.e., a wall of sound. No hurry now after a long hiatus from my LPs….just enjoying what I have.;-)

I suspect you could do the same thing with any of the KLH speakers you've mentioned. Love to hear a double set of 33s or 17s against the double Advents! I'm pretty much a rocker, so I'm not usually comparing strings, pipe organ, kettle drums, real piano and the like for musical reproduction. Although the instruments that Emerson Lake & Palmer used will stretch most systems.;-)

[Andy]

Some interesting words from the man himself in a interveiw......"what completely dominates the sound of a speaker is the octave-to-octave or half-octave to half-octave amount of energy you put into it. The KLH's had this proper sound with respect to having not to much output in the particular octaves in the midrange or the middle highs".

-Henry Kloss

The model 33 was among few ported speakers made by KLH and as far as I know, the only one made in the later period, the 33 was early 70's. Early examples of ported speakers are the model 10, 14, 14B,15 and 19 dating to 1962-65. The model 10 seems very close to the model 33....23x11x8 inch cabinet, 10" woofer. It got very good reviews back in 1963.

Kloss left in 1967 and many speakers which followed seemed to be repackaged versions of what had come before, models 31,32,33...33 being the best at $100 each in 1970. Then by 1976 what the company had to offer was a shadow of previous models. Anyone who has seen a model 56 knows what I mean, cheap light cabinet covered in vinyl. Kloss must have been saddened by what had become of KLH. After all, they had 12% of the speaker market in 1966.

[real1shepherd]

"The model 33 was among few ported speakers made by KLH and as far as I know, the only one made in the later period, the 33 was early 70's. Early examples of ported speakers are the model 10, 14, 14B,15 and 19 dating to 1962-65. The model 10 seems very close to the model 33....23x11x8 inch cabinet, 10" woofer. It got very good reviews back in 1963.

Kloss left in 1967 and many speakers which followed seemed to be repackaged versions of what had come before, models 31,32,33...33 being the best at $100 each in 1970. Then by 1976 what the company had to offer was a shadow of previous models. Anyone who has seen a model 56 knows what I mean, cheap light cabinet covered in vinyl. Kloss must have been saddened by what had become of KLH. After all, they had 12% of the speaker market in 1966."

I was very impressed with its ability (33) to hold its own against the Advent Loudspeaker. I'm really curious if anyone has run a 'double system' of these and what the production #'s were into the 70's. No doubt Kloss knew that if he targeted the right speaker market with his formation of Advent Corp, he would virtually kill KLH….knowing their strengths and weaknesses.

[Andy]

Production numbers really fell off in the early 70's.....the highest serial numbers I've seen on the models 31,32,33 & 38 is in the 15-20,000. In the heyday, models 6,17 had numbers over 150,000 units and system speakers like the 20, 24 also had production in the 150,000 range. It's the dilema of...how do you make a great speaker better for a fair price?

I don't know who was in charge of KLH in the 70's, but they trashed many good products. The model 21 radio went the vinyl & poor fit and finish route in the end....the model 30 system didn't compare to the early ones.

Remember, Kloss was a accomplished wood-worker and could make household furniture with his hands. This is probably why he made the early Model Eight radios out of high grade solid walnut.

I'll close with a sad story...I live in the Boston area and a couple of years ago I met a designer who was redoing Kloss's house after it was sold when he passed away. Basement contents had been left behind and were sent to the dump by the new owner! Electronic nic-nacs, KLH and Advent items..etc. This would have been a gold mine to a KLH-Advent collector or historian. I only hope a land fill picker kept some of it and saved it from being buried!

[real1shepherd]

"I'll close with a sad story...I live in the Boston area and a couple of years ago I met a designer who was redoing Kloss's house after it was sold when he passed away. Basement contents had been left behind and were sent to the dump by the new owner! Electronic nic-nacs, KLH and Advent items..etc. This would have been a gold mine to a KLH-Advent collector or historian. I only hope a land fill picker kept some of it and saved it from being buried!"

OMFG!!!! Can you imagine what went to the dump??? I'm sorry, but that is just WRONG.;-( So much for the Henry Kloss museum. Original prototype stuff....one off designs he did himself….plans, concepts…*sigh*. I hate you for sharing that...not really, but you get what I mean.